I am the resurrection and the life

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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#21
If we have no part in the resurrection...then what would this passage mean?

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
And Jesus said that those who live and believe in Him shall never die.

What does that mean?
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#22
I am not trying to confuse the issue. But there is something in the words of Christ when He was standing at the grave of Lazarus, that have given me pause. They strike in me a question which is not going away, a question that must be answered. Those who believe in Him shall live, even if they die. That in and of itself is such a startling statement as to beggar the imagination. But what He says next is so far above as to be like day compared to night. And those who live and believe in Him shall never die.

There is a division here, not of those who believe, but of those who live, not that they live, but when they live.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live."

And notice again as He teaches, but even more, speaks spiritual words which are Spirit and are life.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate, and died, he who eats this bread shall live forever."

When we see Him, we will become just as He is. Not a resurrection, but His resurrection. Not a resurrection from the dead, but a change from what we are in the flesh to what He is in the flesh. We have life in Him, we live because as He lives because of the Father, so we live because of Him. Because He is in us.

Said in another way, Jesus went to the grave for us, and as He went to the grave, we went with Him, because as we are joined to Him, we are joined to His death, His burial, His resurrection.

I hope and pray that I am not confusing things.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#23
I am not trying to confuse the issue. But there is something in the words of Christ when He was standing at the grave of Lazarus, that have given me pause. They strike in me a question which is not going away, a question that must be answered. Those who believe in Him shall live, even if they die. That in and of itself is such a startling statement as to beggar the imagination. But what He says next is so far above as to be like day compared to night. And those who live and believe in Him shall never die.

There is a division here, not of those who believe, but of those who live, not that they live, but when they live.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live."

And notice again as He teaches, but even more, speaks spiritual words which are Spirit and are life.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate, and died, he who eats this bread shall live forever."

When we see Him, we will become just as He is. Not a resurrection, but His resurrection. Not a resurrection from the dead, but a change from what we are in the flesh to what He is in the flesh. We have life in Him, we live because as He lives because of the Father, so we live because of Him. Because He is in us.

Said in another way, Jesus went to the grave for us, and as He went to the grave, we went with Him, because as we are joined to Him, we are joined to His death, His burial, His resurrection.

I hope and pray that I am not confusing things.
Yes, the dead did hear Jesus. Those in sheol/paradise. Christ went to preach to them while he was in the earth for three days.

He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the Spirit, through whom he went and preached also to the Spirits in prison. 1Peter3:18&19

For this is the reason that the Gospel was preached to those who are now dead, so that they may be judged according to men in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the Spirit. 1Peter4:6

Note it says. To those who are now dead(or asleep)

The important words to help you in John6 I believe are that Christ will raise them at the last day, which confirms Paul's words in 1Cor15

If I may say so you may be concentrating to much on Christ's words to Martha.

It could be said to mean

He who believes in me will live even though he dies.

That could easily mean that when we leave this earth the term died is used for us, but we live/are asleep in Christ as Paul says.



Those who believe in Him will never die.

I think that is explained, we sleep in Christ. We cannot in the spirit go to Heaven and then as you suggested return to our bodies at the last day/resurrection to be taken again up into Heaven. There would then be no need for our spirits to return to our earthly bodies as we will have new bodies in Heaven

I do mean this as sincerely as I can. The overwhelming evidence of the Bible on this subject does back up that we die/leave this earth and sleep in Christ until the resurrection. I doubt there is much more I can say on this so believe it would be best if I leave it to others to discuss with you.

I have wondered whether I should write this post. And I do mean this sincerely. We all at times(me definately included) can fixate on a certain verse or more and become almost consumed by them. I honestly believe it would be better for you to try and leave this subject behind you. Again that is most sincerely meant, and I hope you can accept that. We can become consumed by a subject that in effect cannot help our Christian walk. That is for here now on earth, I believe that is what is most important, and I do pray VW that you take all of my comments in the sincerity and kindness they are meant
 
Last edited:
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#24
Yes, the dead did hear Jesus. Those in sheol/paradise. Christ went to preach to them while he was in the earth for three days.

He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the Spirit, through whom he went and preached also to the Spirits in prison. 1Peter3:18&19

For this is the reason that the Gospel was preached to those who are now dead, so that they may be judged according to men in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the Spirit. 1Peter4:6

Note it says. To those who are now dead(or asleep)

The important words to help you in John6 I believe are that Christ will raise them at the last day, which confirms Paul's words in 1Cor15

If I may say so you may be concentrating to much on Christ's words to Martha.

It could be said to mean

He who believes in me will live even though he dies.

That could easily mean that when we leave this earth the term died is used for us, but we live/are asleep in Christ as Paul says.



Those who believe in Him will never die.

I think that is explained, we sleep in Christ. We cannot in the spirit go to Heaven and then as you suggested return to our bodies at the last day/resurrection to be taken again up into Heaven. There would then be no need for our spirits to return to our earthly bodies as we will have new bodies in Heaven

I do mean this as sincerely as I can. The overwhelming evidence of the Bible on this subject does back up that we die/leave this earth and sleep in Christ until the resurrection. I doubt there is much more I can say on this so believe it would be best if I leave it to others to discuss with you.

I have wondered whether I should write this post. And I do mean this sincerely. We all at times(me definately included) can fixate on a certain verse or more and become almost consumed by them. I honestly believe it would be better for you to try and leave this subject behind you. Again that is most sincerely meant, and I hope you can accept that. We can become consumed by a subject that in effect cannot help our Christian walk. That is for here now on earth, I believe that is what is most important, and I do pray VW that you take all of my comments in the sincerity and kindness they are meant
sorry

He who believes in me even though he dies, probably means that although we leave thisd earth(officially known as dying) we sleep in Christ, but will live because Christ will raise us at the last day. That is just to try and help you with another alternative slant.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#25
Thank you for your concern. I have been praying and asking about this verse for over 10 years now. I thought that I knew what it was saying, but I am still not sure. But I see it better today than I did then. I am not, nor will try to change your mind about what happens to us when we pass from this life. It is not that important to me. You are much more important than that.

But let me say that when Jesus was speaking about those who would hear His voice, I do not believe that He was talking about those who were already in the grave. He made that distinction when He described the resurrection. No, I believe that He was speaking about those of us who are dead in our sins, who have not a life which is alive to God, dead. And that when we, the dead in our sins, hear Him, we come alive in Him.

Just as we eat of His flesh, and drink of His blood.

I do take your comments as you mean them, and it means more to me than I can say.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#26
The reason that I question this verse is two fold. The first is that I never question a desire of my heart that is about Jesus, about His life, about what He teaches.

The second is harder to understand. I think that there is a message in His words about a life in this world which very few have found, which is different from believing and having life in the hereafter, but having life now, His life, without measure.

I truthfully have not experienced this level of His life. But I desire to, not for myself, but for Him. And I know that others also have this desire, deep within their hearts. And I believe that God does not give a desire without making provision for it being fulfilled.

I think that this passage may help lead to understanding and believing in this.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#27
the first resurrection lasts 2000 years

from 32ad until the 2nd advent

you wanna participate in this FIRST resurrection; NOT in the SECOND ressurrection after the millennium
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#28
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live."


I tend to believe that here Jesus is referring to those that have died before His revealing simply because He said
"The hour is coming, and now is"
that to me means that that hour had arrived as this was not long before His Crucifixion, so when the hour for his death arrived, He by The Spirit preached to all those souls that where in the grave and that is why He said:

"when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live."

so those in the grave that hear Him shall live....that will come to pass by the resurrection

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate, and died, he who eats this bread shall live forever."
so now He has come we can have life if we partake of Him...as for not dying,plenty believers have died since Jesus till now but that is just their mortal bodies, because they knew Jesus they now live..which will come to pass by the resurrection.
When we see Him, we will become just as He is. Not a resurrection, but His resurrection. Not a resurrection from the dead, but a change from what we are in the flesh to what He is in the flesh. We have life in Him, we live because as He lives because of the Father, so we live because of Him. Because He is in us.
I agree, those believers who are alive at His return will not taste death, they will be changed, so yes, those that are alive have no need for resurrection but we still have a part in it because those dead in Christ shall rise first, then those believers alive on earth will be caught up with them where we will together meet Christ.

All said and done...I think we also forget that is why Paul said:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

emphasis on "mystery"....
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#29
I disagree. While we were dead in our sins, we heard Him and came alive.

Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#30
yes, that is spiritually, spiritually we were dead and through Him we are now alive...spiritually, but this physical body is still under the curse. Only when Jesus returns will death of the physical be conquered.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#31
yes, that is spiritually, spiritually we were dead and through Him we are now alive...spiritually, but this physical body is still under the curse. Only when Jesus returns will death of the physical be conquered.
Jesus said that His words were spirit and that they were life.

Though our bodies are dead because of sin, we are alive because of the Spirit.

Life is not of the flesh. Life is of God, for just as the Father has life in Himself to raise the dead and give them life, even so Jesus has live in Himself. And even as He said, the one who lives and believes in Him shall never die.

I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live................