I never knew you...

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claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
373
81
28
#1
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#2
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
As I understand Jesus/Yashua was referring to those who reject/refuse to DO the WILL of his Father, those who nail His Commandments to the cross and consider them done away with.....esp the first 4 that refer to God HIMself.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
8,014
818
113
#3
'IMPOSTERS',

this is a 'test' for true 'believers', it never stops, as we grow and step-up our Saviours' ladder of Faith,
on a daily basis - our mettle will always be tested throughout our journey to join with Him,,, -
'obedience' is the clue for us to recognize in ourselves, recognizing our 'loyalty' in the ways that
He has taught us through ALL of the Holy Scriptures, O and N...

are you up for the 'challenge'??? do you possess a 'broken and contrite spirit'???
dig deep'...
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#4
'IMPOSTERS',

this is a 'test' for true 'believers', it never stops, as we grow and step-up our Saviours' ladder of Faith,
on a daily basis - our mettle will always be tested throughout our journey to join with Him,,, -
'obedience' is the clue for us to recognize in ourselves, recognizing our 'loyalty' in the ways that
He has taught us through ALL of the Holy Scriptures, O and N...

are you up for the 'challenge'??? do you possess a 'broken and contrite spirit'???
dig deep'...
This is so true....and we are admonished to 'endure to the end !
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,829
131
63
#5
I believe the verse is referring to hypocrites, who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.. Its not referring to nonbelievers, because nonbelievers don't call him Lord or prophesy in his name. I'd also guess that its referring to preachers who misconstrue His Truth to feed their own vanity?

"For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things." (Philippians 3: 18-19).

There's a commercial running where a minister will send you a tube of miracle spring water, and it shows several joyful women saying "After I got my water, I got a check in the mail for $10k, 15k, and $40k" (paraphrased).. Kind of turns my stomach. I believe preachers who sell malarkey like that will one day hear; "I never knew you; depart from me" jmo
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,781
230
63
#6
No you are not right.

That applies to majority of the Christians today. In the 1st century, the apostles and disciples worked signs and wonders so that people may believe in the Gospel because their mandate was to spread the gospel to all nations before the end times( End times simply means antichrist's reign). They would do all signs and wonders as long as the antichrist was not in the scene and for that reason the antichrist was being held back so that they finish their testimony for they are the two witnesses being talked about.

As soon as they finish their testimony, the antichrist begins to reign and the first order of event was to pursue the two witnesses and kill them. Then the signs and wonders cease from that moment on because the antichrist comes with fake sign and wonders. God is not a God of confusion that a genuine sign there and a fake one here so that people are confused and they can get an excuse- from that moment on, all signs and wonders are fake. The Holy spirit operates at an individual level- if i'm sick and it is the will of God that i'm healed, He heals me from within and not someone laying their hands on me.

2 Thess 2:5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Rev 13:11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth

So those people that will be told "i never knew you.." are non other than these so many people that have call themselves christians doing every kind of sign (healing/speaking in tongues/prophesying etc). They truly believe that all these is from God but they fail to note the times/season we are in.
The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs and it was also said that the first shall be the last and the last be the first.
All that is asked for from God's people is patience & perseverance, humility plays a big role but most importantly, the Holy spirit is to give us understanding and not signs. Only a perverse generation seeks after signs.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,230
98
48
#7
Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.
What is the reason you would refer unto him as Lord, Lord?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,....
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
252
43
#8
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
Non-believers don't do many wonderful works in His name. Neither do they say...Lord, Lord. Rather this is about the many who are brain-washed into thinking they know Jesus...but who's actions show that they have never really met Him.

This should be enough to cause ALL men to fear...but of course you would have to know Him to know the fear of the Lord.

The fool rages...and is confident. The wise fear the Lord.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
252
43
#9
The modern take on the gospel is comparable to a man who finds an amazing treasure and takes it and keeps and defends as if his life depended on it. He pays nothing for it...and would refuse to pay anything, anyway. That's where the value lies...in it's lack of demands.

But the real gospel speaks of a treasure hid in a field that costs it's finder EVERYTHING to have. Many may long for such a treasure (the real kind) but it's cost is simply too high.

So then many have set their hearts on the "emperor's new clothes" of righteousness. They remain naked as it were...and parade their shame as if they were elegantly attired. Such is the way with they who claim much...but have nothing.

A spiritually blind man doesn't know he's blind...since his eyes would have to be opened in order to see what he has never seen before.
Jesus is calling his church to repentance and to purchase "eye salve" so that we may see.

That's a offer that we can't refuse.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,024
1,125
113
#10
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
yup

He never knew them

they were not born again

their attempt to justify themself by their works failed

they were not imputed with the righteousness of Jesus

and still had sin on their record (like everyone without the righteousness of Jesus will)

Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


^does not describe them



romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


they never stopped stumbling over this block
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
681
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#11
Non-believers don't do many wonderful works in His name. Neither do they say...Lord, Lord. Rather this is about the many who are brain-washed into thinking they know Jesus...but who's actions show that they have never really met Him.
People who believe and do not ("why do you call me lord and don't do what I tell you?"); who believe but follow doctrines of men ("in vain you worship me"); who profess to know GOD, but in works deny him (Titus 1:16),
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,781
230
63
#12
People who believe and do not ("why do you call me lord and don't do what I tell you?"); who believe but follow doctrines of men ("in vain you worship me"); who profess to know GOD, but in works deny him (Titus 1:16),
How many of those that believe not drive out demons/heal/prophesy all 'in the name of Jesus'?
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,148
312
83
#13
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
Jesus is not talking about unbelievers. These people lived their lives doing things in His name (CHRISTIan). They called Him 'Lord'. Obviously they believed in Him. But they did not obey His commands. "Why do you call Me 'Lord' and do not what I say?" This is God's Will... "This is My beloved son, listen to Him! (Obey Him).

Jesus told parables because they helped us understand what He was saying. They were not just stories to entertain us, the meanings were for us. Like when the master entrusted his talents to three servants while he was away, and the third servant he called wicked and lazy, and cast him out- where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This servant believed in the master, and he was the master's servant, not a stranger off the street. Jesus says "Whoever does the Will of My Father."
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
#14
There are a few things to note here. The most important thing is that Jesus is talking about non-believers who are trusting in their works to get to heaven. This can be understood when we see what “The will of my Father” is, which is to believe in Jesus for your forgiveness of sins and your righteousness, as seen in John 6:40.

Jesus saying “I never knew you” denotes a lack of relationship with Jesus, his spirit was never inside of them. When he calls them “workers of lawlessness” he’s pointing out that even our best works are sin-stained.

-------------------------
Am I correct? Thanks!
Seeming how they are calling him Lord Lord or master master and are proclaiming his name does indicate they are believers but are workers of Torah less-ness. Lets ask ourselves What is sin? Where can I find the definition of sin? Perhaps the Torah? Where God the father gives his instruction on how to be his people. Nehemiah 1:9 , Exodus 16:28 , Psalm 119:115 , Deuteronomy 5:31. Just to name a few, God is continuously telling us to return to his ways. I think one of the biggest problems is that when we read the new testament we see words like Jew and Law and don't realize That the instructions (Torah) was given to Israel (a people nation) Jews for the most part are from the tribe of Judah. Who stayed in the land after the dispersion. The Law usually refers to the oral law (Talmud) religion of the Pharisees, man made added on instructions. Then we can understand what Mathew 15:2 means. Their tradition of washing hands is not in the Torah. Jesus says they nullified the commands of God by their traditions.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
681
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#15
A spiritually blind man doesn't know he's blind...since his eyes would have to be opened in order to see what he has never seen before. Jesus is calling his church to repentance and to purchase "eye salve" so that we may see.
The prudent attitude for us to have is - "I don't know" - not - "I am full and have need of nothing"

Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would not have sin. But because you say, ‘We see,’ therefore your sin remains. John 9:41
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
681
113
#16
Seeming how they are calling him Lord Lord or master master and are proclaiming his name does indicate they are believers but are workers of Torah less-ness. Lets ask ourselves What is sin? Where can I find the definition of sin? Perhaps the Torah? Where God the father gives his instruction on how to be his people. Nehemiah 1:9 , Exodus 16:28 , Psalm 119:115 , Deuteronomy 5:31. Just to name a few, God is continuously telling us to return to his ways. I think one of the biggest problems is that when we read the new testament we see words like Jew and Law and don't realize That the instructions (Torah) was given to Israel (a people nation) Jews for the most part are from the tribe of Judah. Who stayed in the land after the dispersion. The Law usually refers to the oral law (Talmud) religion of the Pharisees, man made added on instructions. Then we can understand what Mathew 15:2 means. Their tradition of washing hands is not in the Torah. Jesus says they nullified the commands of God by their traditions.
What is sin?
Sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4)
All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17)
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,148
312
83
#17
'Workers of lawlessness' are those who do not obey God- whether they call themselves a Christian or not.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,024
1,125
113
#18
lol every single person who has even 1 sin on their record -> worker of lawlessness:rolleyes:


some of these posts are ridiculous
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,148
312
83
#19
lol every single person who has even 1 sin on their record -> worker of lawlessness:rolleyes:


some of these posts are ridiculous
No, workers of lawlessness is an ongoing practice.