Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

JesusMyOnly · Jan 22, 2015

The things I'm starting to question,

1) Why does the Holy Spirit not perform miracles through believers today? Like in the bible days. If the Spirit is always miraculous and no one but God can perform miracles, and back in that time if someone performed (true) miracles it would have been because the Spirit.

2) I see verses such as 1 Cor. 12:13 and Ephesians 1:13-14. People will say this means that all believers are indwelt and sealed with the Spirit the moment they believe. But 1 Cor. 12:13 I'm not always seeing that same interpretation. And in Ephesians 1:13-14 Paul was writing to those in the church of Ephesus who were already baptized into Christ and became Christians. From my understanding they would of course need the Spirit to have assurance of salvation by the miracles they could perform, it was not some "invisible" seal. They did not have the full completed bible to have the knowledge they needed, they would need the Spirit and the proof of miracles from the Spirit that they were right with God.

I just don't understand why we have the 'non-miraculous' Holy Spirit today. Time and time again anyone and everyone in the bible who had the help of the Holy Spirit could preform miracles. So why did it just stop?
I've been studying with this church (the church of Christ) who does not believe Christians today are indwelt with the Holy Spirit so, thats why I'm questioning this. I'm very skeptical and don't believe just anything when it comes to faith. But what they are teaching me is starting to convince me other wise... and I am just a little frustrated.

blue_ladybug · Jan 22, 2015

People whom God has chosen CAN perform miracles today. However, he does NOT bestow this ability on EVERYONE.

Hizikyah · Jan 22, 2015

and if someone is not truly walking in the Spirit the Spirit is not upon them.

Anyone can say they are "walking in the Spirit" does not make it so....

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Genesis 1:2 King James Bible, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (7307) of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Psalm 104:30, "When you send your Spirit (7307), they are created, and you renew the face of the ground."

7307 - ruach Strong's Concordance ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Transliteration: ruach Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh) Short Definition: spirit

Genesis 6:17, "Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath (7307) of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

JesusMyOnly · Jan 22, 2015

Hizikyah said:

Thank you for those verses friend.

But I'm curious why you believe the Spirit stopped performing miracles through us like in bible days. Like the apostles for example, they could perform many miracles. Why can not all Christians today, if we are indwelt by the Spirit preform miracles like back in bible times? Even if its just one simple gift of the Spirit like healing, or speaking in tongues..so on so forth.

blue_ladybug · Jan 22, 2015

JesusMyOnly said:

Some people are stronger in their faith and belief than others are. Also, God knows who might abuse their power to do miracles, and who wouldn't. Some might try to exploit their powers for money, to give an example. Others would do it because they truly are doing it just for God, not money or fame or notoriety.

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 22, 2015

When the Light left the world darkness soon followed, and darkness has been practicing ever since; with the exception of the few that have the Light of the Lord dwelling in them.

John 9:4
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

dcontroversal · Jan 22, 2015

Because in the early parts of the 1st century A.D. when the Lord had begun his church the miracles, signs, wonders and tongues where there to substantiate the me message and the messengers as being from God......1st Corinthians 13 uses the words...cease, vanish away and fail concerning prophecy, tongues and knowledge (super natural) and Paul calls the use of these things childish and that when that which is perfect is come (the completed word of God) then that which is in part shall be done away with......The miracles where there to substantiate the messenger as being from God and Jesus one time himself if they could not believe by what he said to believe because of the miracles that he was from God and even the people on occasion stated that NO MAN could do these miracles unless they were from God.....so that leaves two and only two possibilities as to why they are not present to this day....

1. They were done away with at the completion of the word of God
2. Or most lack the faith that is required to bring a real, spiritual miracle

Something to note is the following.......

At the end of the age there will be false teachers and the (beast) and the (false prophet) come among men WORKING MIRACLES which will be used to deceive the masses and if possible even the elect.....

If miracles are still in force how would one tell the difference betwixt the two...I.E> true miracle workers and the false that lead the masses astray?

JesusMyOnly · Jan 22, 2015

If miracles are still in force how would one tell the difference betwixt the two...I.E> true miracle workers and the false that lead the masses astray?[/QUOTE]

Ah, I see the very last part of what you said is a very good point that I'll have to look over.

Hizikyah · Jan 22, 2015

JesusMyOnly said:

No I did not mean it stopped, I meant it is active but only in those truly walking in the Spirit. Certianly He can use His power/Spirit to call, guide, prod, correct, etc etc any one He wants, but continual Spiritual gifts one must be in line with His Spirit.

I have felt His Spirit upon me at times, and then when I stray from Him I can feel the difference, that it has left me, but when I return to Him I feel it again, joy, comfort, clear "vision". (PS im not saying people lose heir Salvation back and forth, not at all, Im saying His Spirit, guidance, etc.... we can't be His sheep if we don't follow and we can't be in His Kingdom if we are not inside the Kingdoms "fence") Im nobody but I hope that helps?

JesusMyOnly · Jan 22, 2015

Hizikyah said:

Eh sorry Hizikyah, I see what you were saying now, "No I did not mean it stopped, I meant it is active but only in those truly walking in the Spirit. Certianly He can use His power/Spirit to call, guide, prod, correct, etc etc any one He wants, but continual Spiritual gifts one must be in line with His Spirit."

And you are a somebody who is trying to help me understand this question of mine. Thank you.

jogoldie · Jan 22, 2015

I think people today have the power to perform miracles....it just that in this day and age......our faith is nowhere near as strong as back in those days....if.the Word says we can...we can......I have seen things thatin my mind there is no other explanation then a miracle.....I have felt the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in me...its a gift God gives us.......the devil makes us second guess ourselves....make us feel that we can't.....makes us not even try...for fear of proving our beliefs are unfounded.....very rarely do I see others who believe in that leap of faith......probably makesGod sad......when we just pick the commands that we think are possible....and not all of them.....I pray for all of us to have that faith that we can do all God says we can.........jmo......peace ...jo

notuptome · Jan 22, 2015

JesusMyOnly said:

1. God still does miracles. Only the signs that were intended for Israel have ceased. 1 Corinthians 13:8 God is able to do miracles but God is not obligated to do miracles.

2. All believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit to moment they receive Christ as Savior. John 20 demonstrates Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit into those in the upper room. This is distinctly different from a filling of the Holy Spirit as seen at Pentecost. One baptism to salvation and many filings to have power to minister for the Lord.

Careful you do not read into the scriptures what you want to see and not read out what is really there. God still ministers in great power in the hearts of believers and still saves souls. God is not in the theatrical business. God is not putting on a show to puff Himself up but God is seeking humble contrite hearts in which to work His will. Those who are humble and confess to God that they cannot do what needs done without His strength and power are those being used to win souls and disciple the church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

kennethcadwell · Jan 22, 2015

The gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased, people think this because it is not done in a big wide open scale and a misuse of 1 Corinthians 13. The Holy Spirit does not give the same gifts to all believers, and we are told in the bible as true believers we are not to make a public spectacle of ourselves with these gifts. Plus the Holy Spirit works through people and allows those gifts to be done when if fulfills God's will. False teaching and doubt is the biggest reason why not to many are giving these gifts. The other thing is that the context of 1 Corinthians 13 is love, as Paul is saying if he does any of the gifts given to him by the Holy Spirit without love then they mean nothing.
They are worthless if done without love and edification, and then it says that which is perfect comes it will be done away with. People have falsely interjected that this means the scriptures that we have as the bible. There is absolutely nothing to suggest it is the bible, for one they personally had the scriptures given by the Lord back in the days of Jesus and Acts; Just not in written form. Now we have it in written form, but it is not perfect as there is translation errors in every English translation we have right now. There is only one thing or person who is perfect, God.
Remember what Jesus said;

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

The way we become perfect is by walking in total love as commanded, and then that which is done in part will be done away or cease. In other words the use of those things in a improper way, as Paul is saying when we do these things without love then they will fail and go away because they do not edify or come with truth.

notuptome · Jan 22, 2015

blue_ladybug said:

How does that harmonize with His strength is perfected in our weakness?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hizikyah · Jan 22, 2015

JesusMyOnly said:

NP it was really my fault I did not explain very well in my 1st post!, and thank you also, for this is a right question, made me learn!

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 22, 2015

Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

I do this all the time online, even drink their deadly poison and it still doesn't hurt me.

Jimbone · Jan 22, 2015

I too think there are still gift's in the world today. I feel I was given a few after my conversion. I haven't healed anyone or spoke a different language I’ve never formally learned, but I feel my brain was regenerated and my discernment was multiplied immensely, but the main thing is all the little talents I’ve had my whole life have been enhanced quite a bit, and I (solely by the grace of God) see clearly what there're for now (bringing glory to God). Before I just had them, but they were just wasted because I had no direction to take them. I can now see and focus on what direction to take them, and have a fire burning in me to use them to help do my duty as a believer in complete gratitude. I think we live in a society and world that makes it very hard for God to work these things in our presents due to the fact everything is so far removed from God, and anything that has any kind of supernatural implications is automatically dismissed for the most part this day and age. Besides that you have so very many people out there teaching and preforming false signs and wonders to make a (big) profit, that it puts a bitter taste in the mouth of many before they ever have a chance to believe on Him at all.

AtonedFor · Jan 22, 2015

JesusMyOnly said:

He does ... in many parts of the world.
But, not much in America ... because of lukewarm complacency and UNBELIEF.

God responds to desperate people who cry out to Him!
E.G. the persistent widow.
And pay heed to Matthew 7:7-11.

psalm6819 · Jan 22, 2015

I beleive there are still miracles. I beleive God still heals. I beleive He intervenes on our behalf but I won't fight over it because even the Bible says that were one brought back from the dead ( RE:Lazarus and the beggar) some still would not beleive, point being that even if they saw a miracle they would find a way to "debunk" it.

AtonedFor · Jan 22, 2015

psalm6819 said:

Okay ... IMO, you've been listening to Steve Quayle
... and for that, many hearty congratulations!

Plus, you have the age and appearance of his buddy, Sheila Zilinsky.
Hmmmmm, but she's Canadian.

Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

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