I agree. Although I have always stated that a person does not need to be baptised in water to receive salvation, I would go so far as to say that anyone after conversion who did not then seek baptism in water could well have the sincerity of their conversion called into question as scripture is clear as to the requirement for a convert to be baptised
Is baptism neccasary for salvation??
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Yes I know the Holy Spirit regenerates the undeserving sinner, it is God who does it to save you from death itself! (Jeremiah and Ezekial, renewed hearts)
Without a renewed Heart you cannot even belive from your blindness in the first place.
It was just that some of the statements seem to suggest baptism of the Spirit is something that happens after you are converted?
M
Phil "How is one baptized by the Spirit and where is in scripture to say this has to happen to be saved?" One is baptised as an act of obedience to the written word of God for the remission of sins; we DIE to our sins. It is symbolic. We RISE AGAIN, purified of our sins; all things are new.
One is baptized by the Holy Spirit per the book of Acts through the laying on of hands. ...although scriptures does say "ask and Ye shall receive" so one can simply ASK GOD for His Holy Spirit empowerment and receive it.
And...NOWHERE does it say in scripture that either baptism affords salvation. Neither of them will save you...one must be saved BEFORE obeying the command to be water baptized or to be able to receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit baptism. God does not give His Holy Spirit to those in rebellion, reprobates, unbelievers i.e. the lost.
There would be no point.
Maggie
One is baptized by the Holy Spirit per the book of Acts through the laying on of hands. ...although scriptures does say "ask and Ye shall receive" so one can simply ASK GOD for His Holy Spirit empowerment and receive it.
And...NOWHERE does it say in scripture that either baptism affords salvation. Neither of them will save you...one must be saved BEFORE obeying the command to be water baptized or to be able to receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit baptism. God does not give His Holy Spirit to those in rebellion, reprobates, unbelievers i.e. the lost.
There would be no point.
Maggie
Conversion is when you repent in Faith, the washing is the regeneration of the heart.
Of course this all depends on what you may think the Ordo Salutis is??
My post was particualarly concerned with the point may be being made that ' baptism of the Spirit' as in a second event, not the initial Ordo Salutis.
Blessinsg
Phil
U
It is absolutely necessary for baptism to be saved. Even Jesus was baptized. Baptism is only the beginning though. There is much to do to save ones soul but you must be baptized as well. I am a Biblical Christian. In Mark 16:16 it says "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believes shall not be damned." These were Jesus' words. Notice it says "believes AND is baptized". Not either or.
J
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized. Romans 6:4 We were therefore BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM, 1 Peter 3:1` Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe YES you do need to be baptized to be saved. It is not just a work. It is a response, a pledge to God. GOD always used water in the past to wipe the slate clean. He did it with Noah and with the Israelites.
E
Acts 2: 38. In the origional text (greek) does not say that baptism is to be done to have remission of sins. Peter is telling everyone (3rd person) to repent) and only those who repented and recieved the HS to be baptized (2nd person)
Rom 6 is spiritual baptism. Not a baptism in water. It is the act of the HS literally baptizing us into the death and burial. No water is involved, the "thing" we are baptized into is the death and burial of Christ.
1 Peter 3. Paul makes it clear, Baptism does not remove filth (sin) from the flesh(Our mortal bodies) but is the answer of a good conscious to Christ. The waters of baptism (like the aters of the flood) symbolises what the ressurection of Christ did for us. It saves us from wrath.
Water baptism is a work. Not only this, it attempts to replace the work of HS baptism. And to say one needs to be baptized to be saved is no better then the jews trying to add circumcision to the gospel of Grace, Both baptism and circumcision are used to represent the cleansing one recieves when they come to Christ, The cleansing which as Paul says, are done not by the hands of men, but by the hands of God.
Rom 6 is spiritual baptism. Not a baptism in water. It is the act of the HS literally baptizing us into the death and burial. No water is involved, the "thing" we are baptized into is the death and burial of Christ.
1 Peter 3. Paul makes it clear, Baptism does not remove filth (sin) from the flesh(Our mortal bodies) but is the answer of a good conscious to Christ. The waters of baptism (like the aters of the flood) symbolises what the ressurection of Christ did for us. It saves us from wrath.
Water baptism is a work. Not only this, it attempts to replace the work of HS baptism. And to say one needs to be baptized to be saved is no better then the jews trying to add circumcision to the gospel of Grace, Both baptism and circumcision are used to represent the cleansing one recieves when they come to Christ, The cleansing which as Paul says, are done not by the hands of men, but by the hands of God.
Therefore go and make disciples in all nations, baptising them(the disciples) in the name of the Father, son and Holy Ghost
Matt28:19
I take it from those words of Christ it is for the converted disciple to be baptised. No-one can want to be baptised until they have come to God
Could I add
If someone sank to their kness under the conviction of the Holy Spirit with tears running down their cheeks and beat their fists upoin their chest and cried out
'God be merciful to me a sinner' And if they then asked Christ into their life as Lord and Saviour
What will God reply?
I will accept you, but not until you have been baptised?
And will God say
I will forgive your sins, but not until you have been baptised?
That does not sound like the God I know
Matt28:19
I take it from those words of Christ it is for the converted disciple to be baptised. No-one can want to be baptised until they have come to God
Could I add
If someone sank to their kness under the conviction of the Holy Spirit with tears running down their cheeks and beat their fists upoin their chest and cried out
'God be merciful to me a sinner' And if they then asked Christ into their life as Lord and Saviour
What will God reply?
I will accept you, but not until you have been baptised?
And will God say
I will forgive your sins, but not until you have been baptised?
That does not sound like the God I know
Here's my two cents hopefully they aren't too late to matter. I think baptism is a symbol, like the wedding ring. You can be married without the ring, its pointless to wear the ring without a marriage. The ring signifies the relationship. 
D
John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
If you check the origonal language in Greek the word "no" or "unless" is the word "μη" (pronounced -mey-) It is not the basic no word in Greek, it is a stronger word signifying pretty much "unless". It does not mean "uncapable" but it does mean "unless". There is something called an interlinear Bible. If you can't read Koine Greek then an interlinear Greek New Testament will help. It gives the dictionary word for each Greek word next to it.
I support you guys and trust all of you who have honest hearts. My motive is not to take you to some church, but my motive is this: I want to do what the 1st Century Church that Jesus established did. It is the only roadmap for our salvation. We can't minutely change anyhting Jesus said or did. We have to do what they did. We have proof that they had practised baptism by immersion. We also have proof that they did that before they considered themselves saved. I can point you to evidences if you will. It may take me some time, I don't go on the internet much. But for starters here is a revision of Greek manuscripts formally published under a book name Westcott-Hort.
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 3:5 (1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament)
5απεκριθη [ο] ιησους αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη εξ υδατος και πνευματος ου δυναται εισελθειν εις την βασιλειαν του θεου
If you check the origonal language in Greek the word "no" or "unless" is the word "μη" (pronounced -mey-) It is not the basic no word in Greek, it is a stronger word signifying pretty much "unless". It does not mean "uncapable" but it does mean "unless". There is something called an interlinear Bible. If you can't read Koine Greek then an interlinear Greek New Testament will help. It gives the dictionary word for each Greek word next to it.
I support you guys and trust all of you who have honest hearts. My motive is not to take you to some church, but my motive is this: I want to do what the 1st Century Church that Jesus established did. It is the only roadmap for our salvation. We can't minutely change anyhting Jesus said or did. We have to do what they did. We have proof that they had practised baptism by immersion. We also have proof that they did that before they considered themselves saved. I can point you to evidences if you will. It may take me some time, I don't go on the internet much. But for starters here is a revision of Greek manuscripts formally published under a book name Westcott-Hort.
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 3:5 (1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament)
5απεκριθη [ο] ιησους αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη εξ υδατος και πνευματος ου δυναται εισελθειν εις την βασιλειαν του θεου
Here's my two cents hopefully they aren't too late to matter. I think baptism is a symbol, like the wedding ring. You can be married without the ring, its pointless to wear the ring without a marriage. The ring signifies the relationship.
iI have to agree with Stone, That is the best anology I have heard. excellent