Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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MOC

Member
Mar 20, 2020
84
69
18
#1
Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,384
26,978
113
#2
I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, Whose
sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Matthew 3:11


I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

John answered all of them: "I baptize you with water, but One more powerful than I will come, the straps of
Whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Luke 3:16


:)
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
#3
Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.
I believe God knows us before we are born. And when he gifts us with faith and salvation, we are saved.

While baptism is an outward sign, a cleansing, of an inward change by God's grace, an eternal cleansing.

If you find a church whose message is, if you aren't baptized you aren't saved, you're in the wrong church.
 

LoveBrokeThru

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
141
77
28
#4
After you are saved..

1.) The body is DEAD because of sin

2.) you have to RENEW your mind..

So, if the body is not born again, and the mind is not born again, then WHAT is born again, that becomes the Son/Daughter of God?

A.) Your Born again SPIRIT.

see that?
That is the "new creation in Christ".
That is the 'SON of God".
Not your body, or your mind, but your SPIRIT.

Notice this verse. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"""

What is "raised up"?

Its not your body, or your mind......its your born again SPIRIT that is seated in heavenly places. = "raised UP"

So, if you are only water baptized.... that is your BODY..... and that is meaningless regarding you going to heaven.
This is why Jesus told you that "you must be born again".........= born again Spiritually.
Water can't do that for you....... as you are only born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and the Holy Spirit is not water.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
#5
After you are saved..

1.) The body is DEAD because of sin

2.) you have to RENEW your mind..

So, if the body is not born again, and the mind is not born again, then WHAT is born again, that becomes the Son/Daughter of God?

A.) Your Born again SPIRIT.

see that?
That is the "new creation in Christ".
That is the 'SON of God".
Not your body, or your mind, but your SPIRIT.

Notice this verse. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"""

What is "raised up"?

Its not your body, or your mind......its your born again SPIRIT that is seated in heavenly places. = "raised UP"

So, if you are only water baptized.... that is your BODY..... and that is meaningless regarding you going to heaven.
This is why Jesus told you that "you must be born again".........= born again Spiritually.
Water can't do that for you....... as you are only born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and the Holy Spirit is not water.
Sons of God? Those aren't human. They're what are described in Genesis 6.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,764
3,272
113
#6
1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.
Baptism isn't necessary for Yahweh's forgiveness or justification; this comes through faith in Jesus' death and resurrection (Romans 4:25). But baptism is an important step in our ongoing sanctification.

There's much debate over how 1 Peter 3:21 should be translated. In my view it should be "appeal to God for a good conscience." To me this is the only thing that makes sense. Baptism symbolically washes away our past sins and gives us a clean conscience. It doesn't justify us, it just gives us a clean slate. To say we must be baptized to demonstrate we have a clean conscience just doesn't make sense at all.

The role of conscience seems to me to be an important and overlooked aspect of our sanctification. We start off with a clean slate at baptism and strive to keep our conscience clean before God and man. When we put our faith in Christ, we die to our old way of doing things; including our old ideas of good and evil, which we inherited from Adam. At baptism we put on Christ and pledge to walk in Him from this point forward.

My answer to the question of whether baptism is necessary for salvation is, not really. However, unless you're in circumstances that absolutely prevent it you should get baptized; that's the way taught in the New Testament. People who can't see this have to be blind as bats. If you can get baptized, and you simply refuse because you think you're above it, you better think again.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,071
1,075
113
#7
After you are saved..

1.) The body is DEAD because of sin

2.) you have to RENEW your mind..

So, if the body is not born again, and the mind is not born again, then WHAT is born again, that becomes the Son/Daughter of God?

A.) Your Born again SPIRIT.

see that?
That is the "new creation in Christ".
That is the 'SON of God".
Not your body, or your mind, but your SPIRIT.

Notice this verse. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"""

What is "raised up"?

Its not your body, or your mind......its your born again SPIRIT that is seated in heavenly places. = "raised UP"

So, if you are only water baptized.... that is your BODY..... and that is meaningless regarding you going to heaven.
This is why Jesus told you that "you must be born again".........= born again Spiritually.
Water can't do that for you....... as you are only born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and the Holy Spirit is not water.
According to Paul: "...I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." This scripture aligns with the need to believe and obey God's commands entirely in order to be born again spiritually: repent, be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost in accordance with Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. (Acts 2:36-39)

Holy Ghost=Spirit
Repentance=Soul
Water baptism=Body
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,071
1,075
113
#8
Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity...
God brings about the stated reality associated with His commands concerning the spiritual rebirth. Receiving the NT spiritual rebirth requires obedience to the same commands. The message first presented by Peter never changed.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41



Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry...
Receiving the Holy Spirit does not always occur before water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. What is consistent in all detailed conversion experiences is submitting to water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Spirit. Note: The Samaritan's conversion in Acts 8:12-17. Peter and John were sent to the group in order to receive the Holy Spirit days after they believed the message, and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Paul told the Ephesus disciples about Jesus and were baptized in His name prior to their receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 19:1-6)


1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.
This scripture explains that water baptism is not done to clean filth off the outside of one's body as in bathing. It's God's ordained means of removing one's sin in accordance with Jesus' sacrifice. (Acts 2:38, 22:16, etc.)

...Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.
Note that a disciple is a student of a teacher. In this case, the twelve were students of John the Baptist. He taught and water baptized people in anticipation of the soon coming arrival of the messiah. Paul explained this in verse 4. Also, according to Paul, being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is when people are buried with Jesus into His death. It is at this time that our old man (self) is considered crucified with Jesus and the body of sin is destroyed. This lines up with one's sins being remitted by God upon obedience to His command initially presented by Peter. And later explained to Paul by Ananias. (Acts 22:16)

Notice the condition stated in verse 5 of Romans below. It is only those who are planted in the likeness of his death (water baptism in His name) that will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 FOR IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom. 6:3-6)

Another nugget of truth found in the exchange between Paul and the disciples concerns a misconception many have about when the Holy Ghost/Spirit is received. Paul questions if the group needs to receive the Holy Ghost; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" No need to ask this question if a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.
Baptism is actually a command associated with the NT rebirth experience per God's design. (Acts 2:36-42) Believing God and acting in obedience is essential to His bringing about the reality He has stated:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (James 2:12-22)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,142
5,273
113
#9
God brings about the stated reality associated with His commands concerning the spiritual rebirth. Receiving the NT spiritual rebirth requires obedience to the same commands. The message first presented by Peter never changed.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41



Receiving the Holy Spirit does not always occur before water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. What is consistent in all detailed conversion experiences is submitting to water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Spirit. Note: The Samaritan's conversion in Acts 8:12-17. Peter and John were sent to the group in order to receive the Holy Spirit days after they believed the message, and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Paul told the Ephesus disciples about Jesus and were baptized in His name prior to their receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 19:1-6)


This scripture explains that water baptism is not done to clean filth off the outside of one's body as in bathing. It's God's ordained means of removing one's sin in accordance with Jesus' sacrifice. (Acts 2:38, 22:16, etc.)

Note that a disciple is a student of a teacher. In this case, the twelve were students of John the Baptist. He taught and water baptized people in anticipation of the soon coming arrival of the messiah. Paul explained this in verse 4. Also, according to Paul, being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is when people are buried with Jesus into His death. It is at this time that our old man (self) is considered crucified with Jesus and the body of sin is destroyed. This lines up with one's sins being remitted by God upon obedience to His command initially presented by Peter. And later explained to Paul by Ananias. (Acts 22:16)

Notice the condition stated in verse 5 of Romans below. It is only those who are planted in the likeness of his death (water baptism in His name) that will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 FOR IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom. 6:3-6)

Another nugget of truth found in the exchange between Paul and the disciples concerns a misconception many have about when the Holy Ghost/Spirit is received. Paul questions if the group needs to receive the Holy Ghost; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" No need to ask this question if a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus.

Baptism is actually a command associated with the NT rebirth experience per God's design. (Acts 2:36-42) Believing God and acting in obedience is essential to His bringing about the reality He has stated:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (James 2:12-22)
it’s crazy how we keep bringing up the same clearly stated things and reject what it says. The church is on a state of spiritual confusion to where even plainly stated basic Christian doctrine like baptism for remission of sins as Christ commanded clearly just after he rose from the dead

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but that’s not enough clearly Peter at pentocost commands exactly what Jesus commanded him to do

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

Peter is just doing what Jesus said

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not enough though the conversion of the gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly Peter commands we’re baptism after they have received the Holy Ghost from Jesus but it’s not enough

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Clearly baptism hasn’t changed the Bible is extremely clear water baptism is for the remission of sins we do not because we believe Jesus died for remission of our sins. But it’s never enough for Christian’s to learn what’s there and believe it’s like we constantly try to prove it wrong or make it irrelevant even tv ough Gods made it important and established it for a certain purpose

this is what the hyper grace doctrine does it convinces people “ if you need to do anything Jesus said to do , it’s not grace “ so when they then read what Jesus said to do for something like remission of sins they are incapable of changing from “ it’s not grace I’m already saved “ even though it’s clearly established and everyone in the New Testament had been baptized in his name for remission of sins

it’s just mind boggling why we do that
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
25,051
13,271
113
#11
The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation.
Which answers your question. Baptism is not for salvation but essential for sanctification.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,071
1,075
113
#12
it’s crazy how we keep bringing up the same clearly stated things and reject what it says. The church is on a state of spiritual confusion to where even plainly stated basic Christian doctrine like baptism for remission of sins as Christ commanded clearly just after he rose from the dead

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but that’s not enough clearly Peter at pentocost commands exactly what Jesus commanded him to do

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

Peter is just doing what Jesus said

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not enough though the conversion of the gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly Peter commands we’re baptism after they have received the Holy Ghost from Jesus but it’s not enough

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Clearly baptism hasn’t changed the Bible is extremely clear water baptism is for the remission of sins we do not because we believe Jesus died for remission of our sins. But it’s never enough for Christian’s to learn what’s there and believe it’s like we constantly try to prove it wrong or make it irrelevant even tv ough Gods made it important and established it for a certain purpose

this is what the hyper grace doctrine does it convinces people “ if you need to do anything Jesus said to do , it’s not grace “ so when they then read what Jesus said to do for something like remission of sins they are incapable of changing from “ it’s not grace I’m already saved “ even though it’s clearly established and everyone in the New Testament had been baptized in his name for remission of sins

it’s just mind boggling why we do that
You are so right. The bible states this truth over and over. Our job is to continue to share the truth. All must hear it and make their own decision whether to believe what the word of God says or accept what other's believe is necessary.

As you already know, believing in Jesus is much more than mental acceptance. Believing in Christ, means believing His Word, which means accepting and obeying His Word. This is expressed in Hebrews 5:9: "... he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."

Jesus made a powerful statement that confirms to believe is to obey:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:" Matt. 21-24
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,071
1,075
113
#14
Which answers your question. Baptism is not for salvation but essential for sanctification.
Sin cannot enter the kingdom of God. Therefore obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is a necessary part of salvation. The following scriptures attest to this truth:

As prophesied by Jesus in Luke 24:47, Peter gave specific instructions that began in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. These instructions would be relevant for all nations according to Jesus.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:38-41


Ananias was sent to tell Saul (Apostle Paul) what was required of him. He was instructed to be baptized and told his obedience would bring about the washing away of his personal sins.

"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16


Lastly, sanctification is the action of making or declaring something holy.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
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#15
it’s crazy how we keep bringing up the same clearly stated things and reject what it says. The church is on a state of spiritual confusion to where even plainly stated basic Christian doctrine like baptism for remission of sins as Christ commanded clearly just after he rose from the dead

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but that’s not enough clearly Peter at pentocost commands exactly what Jesus commanded him to do

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

Peter is just doing what Jesus said

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not enough though the conversion of the gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly Peter commands we’re baptism after they have received the Holy Ghost from Jesus but it’s not enough

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Clearly baptism hasn’t changed the Bible is extremely clear water baptism is for the remission of sins we do not because we believe Jesus died for remission of our sins. But it’s never enough for Christian’s to learn what’s there and believe it’s like we constantly try to prove it wrong or make it irrelevant even tv ough Gods made it important and established it for a certain purpose

this is what the hyper grace doctrine does it convinces people “ if you need to do anything Jesus said to do , it’s not grace “ so when they then read what Jesus said to do for something like remission of sins they are incapable of changing from “ it’s not grace I’m already saved “ even though it’s clearly established and everyone in the New Testament had been baptized in his name for remission of sins

it’s just mind boggling why we do that
Believes and is baptized are saved. But you miss
the rest of that verse that makes it clear. He that believeth not....Notice it doesn't add, he that is not baptized is not saved.
If baptism were requisite, Jesus would have said so.

Jesus was baptized. Did he need saving? No. Because he'd not yet died to put the sakvific covenant into effect. He was baptized, mikvah, to cleanse him and ready him for his ministry.

Jesus also didn't baptize anyone. Odd if it coincided with salvation.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
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#16
Believes and is baptized are saved. But you miss
the rest of that verse that makes it clear. He that believeth not....Notice it doesn't add, he that is not baptized is not saved.
If baptism were requisite, Jesus would have said so.

Jesus was baptized. Did he need saving? No. Because he'd not yet died to put the salvific covenant into effect. He was baptized, mikvah, to cleanse him and ready him for his ministry.

Jesus also didn't baptize anyone. Odd if it coincided with salvation.
Salvific covenant. Fixed the typo.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
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#17
Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.
I believe water baptism is necessary to be resurrected.

Romans 6:4,5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

I believe the above verse has to be literal. If it isn’t literal then nothing really happens. I opened a thread on that so if you’d like you can view it.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ssary-to-be-in-the-first-resurrection.205245/
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,174
1,084
113
New Zealand
#18
Key questions..

In the passage you are looking at..

Is the baptism of a whole group?

Are the people baptized already believers?

Is the baptism.. involving the Holy Spirit.. or is it water baptism? This relates back to first question.

How many verses have eternal salvation mentioned that has no water baptism mentioned, compared to verses that MAY be about water baptism?

Think... if a whole group received the Holy Spirit.. and it's called baptism.. most likely it isn't water baptism. It's also most likely not verses about receiving eternal life either.

Paul found a group of disciples of Apollos. What went on with them with baptism?

I think you'll find they were water baptized.. having believed previously... And then as a group received the Holy Spirit as a church 'in the midst' of them.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#19
Is baptism necessary for salvation.

Throughout the gospels we see those who came to believe in the Lord Jesus were almost immediately baptised.
We find that in the great commission Jesus commanded it to be so.
Now we could argue the thief on the cross event but then again JESUS is lord not us.
When john the baptist asked why... JESUS answered ...it must be so now.
So where does that lead us?
Apparently it is a important step in the preparation for the gospel of peace. It is also commanded by CHRIST to those who come to faith.
Our Lord said....if you love me you will keep my commandments. How then would we fair if we failed to do the first thing he asked of us.
Let those who have a ear listen.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
25,051
13,271
113
#20
I believe water baptism is necessary to be resurrected.
That's another bizarre doctrine on CC. We discussed this earlier, and Paul would not be very happy to see this kind of nonsense: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor 1:17).

Paul desired the resurrection of all the saints, and had baptism been a key issue for resurrection, he could not possibly have made the above statement.