is bible the word of God

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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so show where Jesus himself said I am God or worship me.That simple
I've given you a rational refutation of this argument in post 171, and you haven't responded. Please don't repeat it without responded to my post.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Look see word "another"(so it is not holy spirit that was present much before Jesus)and surely Muhammad is not alive as is none else(Jesus not here)but his teachings through Quran a living and until day of judgement miracle is strong and going on and will stay forever.
The holy spirit had not yet been given. In fact, jesus said, the spirit of truth. That is a name or title of the Holy Spirit

Your right, he is not alive, the HS is. So it can not be Muhammad, Jesus did nto say he would send the word. He said he would send the person.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Islam glorifies Jesus and tells its adherents to respect and love Jesus based on what he himself said not what church or his enemy(Paul said)
No it does not.......it devalues Christ......and you claim he was a prophet...HE states of HIMSELF he is ONE with GOD and the bible states clearly HE IS GOD, the PHYSICAL manifestation of GOD, the ONLY WAY to GOD, the ONLY SAVIOR of the world......NO...ISLAM and your false prophet DEVALUE JESUS, deny the DIVINITY of JESUS, the resurrection of JESUS......and i can go on and on and on with the deceptive lies peddled by ISLAM...and even the SEXUAL deviant, immoral, accepted practices of ISLAM that are disgusting...............Islam is not even a religion....it is a cult that promotes sin.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Muhammad was a messenger of God,Allah is the name in arabic to ELohim,or Ellaha in hebrew.
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA not hardly......He was no messenger of the God of heaven......maybe the god of the pit with a small "g"
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Islam has a play book. The same points are raised time and again, not because they seek an answer
but because they are taught these are the answer to give to christians.

The real problem they have is over the role of women in their culture. They are totally dominated and
abuse, ie rape is not recognised. In reality anything not mentioned as wrong in the Koran is ok.

So divorce is ok by saying I divorce you 3 times to a wife, some even do it by text.
Having a wife 9 years or older is ok. There response is Mary, Jesus's mother was young, except this is
not taken as an example of marrying under aged girls.
Children are the possession of the father, who can literally kill them if they so wish.
FGM is ok, as Muhammed commented on it without saying it was wrong.
Rape is not acknowledge as an issue, and beating ones wife is acceptable.

There is no mention of love, love of God or love of people.
The best morality is do a little better than others do to you. So if someone is terrible to you, just be
a little less terrible back.

In conflict if they kill one of your guys, kill them all. You could choose to be reasonable and nice, it
completely depends on how you are feeling at the time.

Many people who come to faith in Jesus have to run for their lives, because their nutcase family believe
it is their obligation to kill them. Not because it makes sense or has caused upset, but apostacy is a
death penalty.

Once you realise this stuff is what makes their faith, their ability to be totally two faced, and resort to
murder if they so desire, where is the trust or understanding? It is more like dealing with a cobra, willing
to lash out at any time for any reason.
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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Muhammad was a messenger of God,Allah is the name in arabic to ELohim,or Ellaha in hebrew.
My understanding of how he claimed this (correct me with Quran verses). He saw Gabriel - or he thought and was unsure - since Satan can turn himsef into an angel of light. He was so unsure as to if he was chosen or possessed he considered throwing himself off a mountain. To determine if it was Satan him and his wife had sex and the angel left; therefore confirming it was an angel of God.
Is this not correct?
Satan must be very stupid.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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The holy spirit had not yet been given. In fact, jesus said, the spirit of truth. That is a name or title of the Holy Spirit

Your right, he is not alive, the HS is. So it can not be Muhammad, Jesus did nto say he would send the word. He said he would send the person.
Now Jesus one statement is 100% true and acceptable and his never saying I am God doesn't mean anything.
One point I want to clarify to all my brothers in Abrahamic faith is that God through Quran very clearly says to its adherents that "if we wanted we would have made every one muslim"So there is complete freedom of what every anyone choose.Yes because there is death and day of judgement so one should be more careful and choose based on truth.Thats all.If a muslim pressures others then he is going against teaching of Islam.So Muslims never pressure anyone.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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My understanding of how he claimed this (correct me with Quran verses). He saw Gabriel - or he thought and was unsure - since Satan can turn himsef into an angel of light. He was so unsure as to if he was chosen or possessed he considered throwing himself off a mountain. To determine if it was Satan him and his wife had sex and the angel left; therefore confirming it was an angel of God.
Is this not correct?
Satan must be very stupid.
INstead of guessing and guess are not always right Read Quran yourself. www.englishtafsir.com
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Now Jesus one statement is 100% true and acceptable and his never saying I am God doesn't mean anything.
One point I want to clarify to all my brothers in Abrahamic faith is that God through Quran very clearly says to its adherents that "if we wanted we would have made every one muslim"So there is complete freedom of what every anyone choose.Yes because there is death and day of judgement so one should be more careful and choose based on truth.Thats all.If a muslim pressures others then he is going against teaching of Islam.So Muslims never pressure anyone.
Jesus says he is God. In fact the OT declares he is God. Only God can come and take the payment of sin for all of mankind throughout all of History. If jesus ws not god. We are still dead in our sin.

And I think you need to read your qua-ran more. It does not speak of freedom. It speaks of holy wars against those who are against them,

Thats why they are almost daily beheading christians and jews,
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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Why does the Quran say his wet-nurse thought he may be demon possessed?
Why did he himself question if he was demon possessed?
Why did he try to kill himself?
Why did the spirit he encountered cause such fear and dispair?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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YOur saying statements without any background verification is hate in itself.Sorry my friend you don't look to be.
The greater percentage of muslims in a particular nation the more murder and persecution they commit against others. Absolute fact:
Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide' in Middle East – report
This article is more than 1 month old
Millions uprooted from homes, says UK-commissioned report, with many jailed and killed
Patrick Wintour in Addis Ababa
Thu 2 May 2019 17.00 EDTLast modified on Fri 3 May 2019 03.57 EDT


The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, was mentioned in the report for denigrating Christians. Photograph: Reuters
Pervasive persecution of Christians, sometimes amounting to genocide, is ongoing in parts of the Middle East, and has prompted an exodus in the past two decades, according to a report commissioned by the British foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt.
Millions of Christians in the region have been uprooted from their homes, and many have been killed, kidnapped, imprisoned and discriminated against, the report finds. It also highlights discrimination across south-east Asia, sub-Saharan Africa and in east Asia – often driven by state authoritarianism.
“The inconvenient truth,” the report finds, is “that the overwhelming majority (80%) of persecuted religious believers are Christians”.
Some of the report’s findings will make difficult reading for leaders across the Middle East who are accused of either tolerating or instigating persecution. The Justice and Development (AK) party of the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for instance, is highlighted for denigrating Christians.
As the Sri Lanka attacks show, Christians worldwide face serious persecution
Giles Fraser



Read more
Hunt described the interim report – published on Thursday, based on a review led by the bishop of Truro, the Rt Rev Philip Mounstephen – as “truly sobering”, especially since it came as “the world was seeing religious hatred laid bare in the appalling attacks at Easter on churches across Sri Lanka, and the devastating attack on two mosques in Christchurch”.
Hunt, an Anglican, has made the issue of Christian persecution one of the major themes of his foreign secretaryship. “I think we have shied away from talking about Christian persecution because we are a Christian country and we have a colonial past, so sometimes there’s a nervousness there,” he said. “But we have to recognise – and that’s what the bishop’s report points out very starkly – that Christians are the most persecuted religious group.”
He added: “What we have forgotten in this atmosphere of political correctness is actually the Christians that are being persecuted are some of the poorest people on the planet. In the Middle East the population of Christians used to be about 20%; now it’s 5%.”
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“We’ve all been asleep on the watch when it comes to the persecution of Christians. I think not just the bishop of Truro’s report but obviously what happened in Sri Lanka on Easter Sunday has woken everyone up with an enormous shock.”
The interim report is designed to set out the scale of the persecution and a final report in the summer will set out how the British Foreign Office can do more to raise awareness of the issue.
The report shows that a century ago Christians comprised 20% of the population in the Middle East and north Africa, but since then the proportion has fallen to less than 4%, or roughly 15 million people.
In the Middle East and north Africa, the report says, “forms of persecution ranging from routine discrimination in education, employment and social life up to genocidal attacks against Christian communities have led to a significant exodus of Christian believers from this region since the turn of the century.
“In countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia the situation of Christians and other minorities has reached an alarming stage. In Saudi Arabia there are strict limitations on all forms of expression of Christianity including public acts of worship. There have been regular crackdowns on private Christian services. The Arab-Israeli conflict has caused the majority of Palestinian Christians to leave their homeland. The population of Palestinian Christians has dropped from 15% to 2%.”
Palestinian Christians attend an Orthodox Easter service in Gaza. Photograph: APAImages/Rex/Shutterstock
The report identifies three drivers of persecution: political failure creating a fertile ground for religious extremism; a turn to religious conservatism in countries such as Algeria and Turkey; and institutional weaknesses around justice, the rule of law and policing, leaving the system open to exploitation.


Read more
The report says: “The rise of hate speech against Christians in state media and by religious leaders, especially in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, has compromised the safety of Christians and created social intolerance.”
In findings that may pose difficulties for the UK as it seeks to build relations across the Middle East, the report states: “In some cases the state, extremist groups, families and communities participate collectively in persecution and discriminatory behaviour. In countries such as Iran, Algeria and Qatar, the state is the main actor, where as in Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Libya and Egypt both state and non-state actors, especially religious extremist groups, are implicated.”
“In 2017 a total of 99 Egyptian Christians were killed by extremist groups, with 47 killed on Palm Sunday in Tanta and Alexandria. Egyptian Christians were continuously targeted by extremist groups during 2017 and 2018.
“Arrest, detention and imprisonment are common in Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. For example in the course of six days before Christmas 2018, 114 Christians were arrested in Iran with court cases left pending as a form of intimidation. Though most cases in Iran involve converts, indigenous Christians such as Pastor Victor, an Assyrian Christian, with his wife, Shamiram Issavi, have also been targeted and imprisoned.”


Read more
It also highlights how states, and state-sponsored social media, sometimes incite hatred and publish propaganda against Christians, especially in Iran, Iraq and Turkey. “The governing AK party in Turkey depicts Christians as a ‘threat to the stability of the nation’. Turkish Christian citizens have often been stereotyped as not real Turks but as western collaborators.”
In Saudi Arabia, the report says, school textbooks “teach pupils religious hatred and intolerance towards non-Muslims, including Christians and Jews”.
The report says freedom of religious belief can also act as a means of helping those suffering gender discrimination, since there is clear evidence that female Christians suffer disproportionately.
Defending the claim of genocide, the report says: “The level and nature of persecution is arguably coming close to meeting the international definition of genocide, according to that adopted by the UN.”
The eradication of Christians and other minorities on pain of “the sword” or other violent means was revealed to be the specific and stated objective of extremist groups in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, north-east Nigeria and the Philippines. An intent to erase all evidence of the Christian presence was made plain by the removal of crosses, the destruction of church buildings and other church symbols.
“The killing and abduction of clergy represented a direct attack on the church’s structure and leadership. Where these and other incidents meet the tests of genocide, governments will be required to bring perpetrators to justice, aid victims and take preventative measures for the future. The main impact of such genocidal acts against Christians is exodus.”
Referring to the universal declaration of human rights, the report concludes: “The challenge that faces us at the beginning of the 21st century is not that we need to fight for a just legal system, it is rather that to our shame, we have abjectly failed to implement the best system that women and men have yet devised to protect universal freedoms.”
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Jesus says he is God. In fact the OT declares he is God. Only God can come and take the payment of sin for all of mankind throughout all of History. If jesus ws not god. We are still dead in our sin.

And I think you need to read your qua-ran more. It does not speak of freedom. It speaks of holy wars against those who are against them,

Thats why they are almost daily beheading christians and jews,
Boy o Boy,I wonder how can I find the phrase a statement by Jesus saying"I am God or whorship me">I also could not find "Gospel according to jesus"I also see so many errors in Bible written by 4 anonymous authors 50 to 75 years after ascension of Jesus.I also don't understand how Paul a declared enemy of christians can after ascension of Jesus does a drama of vision and enter inner circle and starts to enter his contradictions in bible.(there are today books written on this by Bible scholars)Jesus died on cross is disputable not by me but by bible scholars.Read if you can a book on kindle on amazon"The Messiah"by Dr.Jerald Dirks Harvard univ educated in divinity who also was deacon in methodist church who doubts Jesus having died on cross.!
I am not here to argue.No if I do I go against Islam.You have to beleive things which Jesus didn't teach that is our choice.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Why does the Quran say his wet-nurse thought he may be demon possessed?
Why did he himself question if he was demon possessed?
Why did he try to kill himself?
Why did the spirit he encountered cause such fear and dispair?
None is true
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Boy o Boy,I wonder how can I find the phrase a statement by Jesus saying"I am God or whorship me">I also could not find "Gospel according to jesus"I also see so many errors in Bible written by 4 anonymous authors 50 to 75 years after ascension of Jesus.I also don't understand how Paul a declared enemy of christians can after ascension of Jesus does a drama of vision and enter inner circle and starts to enter his contradictions in bible.(there are today books written on this by Bible scholars)Jesus died on cross is disputable not by me but by bible scholars.Read if you can a book on kindle on amazon"The Messiah"by Dr.Jerald Dirks Harvard univ educated in divinity who also was deacon in methodist church who doubts Jesus having died on cross.!
I am not here to argue.No if I do I go against Islam.You have to beleive things which Jesus didn't teach that is our choice.
You can’t find it because you do not want to.

When jesus said he was alive before abraham was born, He meant it
What thomas called him God, He did not argue or say he was wrong,
When God called Jesus God. I think God knew what he was talking about.

If jesus was not God. I will spend eternity in hell. The very law given to moses exposes that fact. Whether you like ot or not does not matter, when we face God judgment will happen.
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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“But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before.” Quoted from the Sahih (authentic) Hadith (traditions) of Bukhari, [2], Volume 9, number 111

Does it not say that? Provide proof like I have

https://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_9_87.php
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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If we can't hear his word because we are not of God so why all this hide n seek game He could have forgiven us in heaven n we didn't have to come to earth.
He does that with babies and children, NOT with adults. We are held accountable for our sins.
The truths are hidden from those whose hearts are not right with God.
The reason they are not right and why they cannot see the truth is because a seed/offspring/son of the devil abides in the heart of that person, PREVENTING THEM from seeing the truth, or blinding their minds from being able to see it, causing them to reject it, like you are doing now.
You can't help yourself. You hate the bible and what is written because that which is in you hates the bible and what is written in it, because the bible speaks truth, and that which is in you can only handle and speak lies.
That is why it is hidden from you. The spirit or seed of the devil in you, called sin, is preventing you from seeing and hiding the truth from you because it CANNOT receive truth.
Until you have a child of God pray for you to come to the truth, that you may be a child of the truth, it is doubtful you will ever be able to even see it.
And the only way to be forgiven of your sins is through the shedding of blood, via a scapegoat, if you will.
In the old testament, before the true lamb of God came, the Jews receive forgiveness for past sins.
But Jesus' sacrifice covered all past, present, and future sins of death for His children, with one condition. Repent of your past sins, and then, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from said sins we repented of.


What a fake reasoning.If Quran had been result of following OT it would have same mistakes but it is free of them all.
Too many similarities, one of your early fathers must have read the old testament and taken from it the parts they liked and agreed with.

Show me where jesus himself explicitly said "I m God or worship me"If he didn't say then he is not God nor his son!.period.
• Matthew 1:23. Here He is called Emmanuel, which means “God with us.”

• John 20:28. Here Thomas called Him “My Lord and my God” and was not rebuked by Him.

• Acts 20:28. Here the Bible says that God purchased the church with His own blood. Since Jesus is the One Who shed His own blood it is plain that Jesus is being identified with God.

• Hebrews 1:8. Here God the Father called the Son “God.”

• 1 Timothy 3:16. This Scripture says that God was “manifest in the flesh.”​
• Joh 8:58-59. This scripture clearly shows Jesus identifying Himself as the God who spoke to Moses at the burning bush.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

• Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


And that is just a few.
If you are a child of the truth, or of God, or of His sheep that are not of the Jewish fold, then you will accept this as proof and as truth.
If you are not of the truth or of God, then you will not be able to receive this simple truth.
Jesus IS God the Son.
Question; why would God say He is One Lord, or the Lord our God is One?
If there is just you, why bother even mentioning it?
If you see just me, and I say to you, "I am one", so what, we all see you are just one person.
There is no need and it becomes nonsensical to even say such a thing... Unless, there is more than just you when it looks like there is only one.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,783
113
Now Jesus one statement is 100% true and acceptable and his never saying I am God doesn't mean anything.
One point I want to clarify to all my brothers in Abrahamic faith is that God through Quran very clearly says to its adherents that "if we wanted we would have made every one muslim"So there is complete freedom of what every anyone choose.Yes because there is death and day of judgement so one should be more careful and choose based on truth.Thats all.If a muslim pressures others then he is going against teaching of Islam.So Muslims never pressure anyone.
Having a reason not to do something is no guarantee that someone will not do that thing, so your reason for saying "So Muslims never pressure anyone" is faulty at best. Also, and sadly, you are ignorant of the practices of some of your fellow religionists and those of your religion's founder.
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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Guillaume's translation, Ibn Ishaq, page 72:

"His [Muhammad's friend's] father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears. ..... She [Muhammad's mother] asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her. When she asked if I feared a demon had possessed him, I replied that I did."

The book is available online, I read the above myself. Even as a child.