Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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What you have stated is perfectly true. But are you aware that for the Catholic Church simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is not sufficient in order to be saved? Check out your Catechism.
I once quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 to a Roman Catholic and clarified that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such: Saved by grace through faith "infused" with works, just not by specific works of the law. Saved through faith + "these" works (good works) just not "those" works (merely limited, specific works of the law) is not what Paul was saying. He meant works in general.

I discovered the ROOT of the problem of the Roman Catholic misinterpretation. That Roman Catholic also made this statement:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith".Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. Roman Catholics seem to think by not teaching that justification comes through perfect obedience to the law that they are not teaching salvation by works, yet they still claim that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above. It's all just Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
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Ernie is banned. Happy New Year!
 
Dec 23, 2017
35
1
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THE BIBLE PROVES THAT CATHOLICS ARE TOTALLY PAGAN IDOLATORS SET UP BY THE DEVIL TO DECEIVE PEOPLE AND DISTRACT THEM FROM THE PLAIN TRUTH of what the BIBLE and what JESUS AND GOD REQUIRES of them.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
The Bread of Life
Recorded in the Gospels in a couple of places Jesus says something figurative and his disciples misunderstand and take him literally. Jesus does not leave them in ignorance but corrects them. The first example occurs in Mt 16:5-12. The disciples have forgotten to bring bread on their journey. Jesus then tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, The disciples think he has said this because they forgot to bring bread. Jesus then explains clearly that he is not talking about bread but the teachings of the Pharisees. The next example is Jn 4:31-34. Here again Jesus speaks about food in a figurative way. The disciples encourage Jesus to eat something. Jesus says he has food to eat. The disciples think someone else had brought him food. Jesus then tells them that his food is to do the will of his Father.


Now let us consider Jn chapter 6 where Jesus talks about food everyone of his followers must eat to have eternal life. Here is Jn 6:51-69.


[SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[SUP]52 [/SUP]The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [SUP]54 [/SUP]he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [SUP]56 [/SUP]He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” [SUP]61 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [SUP]62 [/SUP]Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
[SUP]66 [/SUP]After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” [SUP]68 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; [SUP]69 [/SUP]and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”


Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (Jn 6:51–69). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.


In verse 51 Jesus says he is the bread that came down from heaven and the bread that he would give for the life of the world was his flesh. Now I can understand how some one might not be sure what Jesus meant by this. They would need for him to elaborate. But in v 52 the Jews take him literally to mean they had to eat his actual flesh. I am sure they imagined walking up to Jesus and taking a bite out of his arm and then having to chew it up and swallow it. This is a horrifying and disgusting thought. And besides how many people could he feed? A few hundred and he would be all gone.
In v 53 Jesus does not explain that he is speaking figuratively but doubles down and in the most clear and concise manner says [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;


Jesus goes on to repeat this teaching by my count 5 times. Then in v 60 and 66 it says many of his disciples fell away over this teaching. Remember Jesus is God and he could read the thoughts of everyone of these disciples. He knew they understood him correctly so there was no need to correct them. What is going on here is that Jesus is testing the faith of his disciples and apostles. Just like God tested Abraham several times and Abraham says to himself “God says it and God does not lie so therefore I believe.” Jesus could have told them how he would do this. He would work a miracle at the Last Supper and change bread into his flesh and wine into his blood. It would still look and taste like bread and wine but would actually be his flesh and blood. They did not have the faith of Abraham. Either they did not believe it was God speaking to them or they did not believe in the truthfulness of God.


Many non-Catholics say that in v 63 Jesus is telling the crowd that he is speaking figuratively. When Jesus uses the word flesh here he is not talking about his actual own flesh but in the sense St Paul does in Rom 8:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,. Furthermore no where in scripture is the word spirit used to mean metaphorical or figurative. If this were true he let many disciples walk away and lose their salvation over a misunderstanding. Jesus wants to save everyone and he would not do that. Remember the disciples leave in v 66 which is after v63 where some say Jesus says he is speaking figuratively.


Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ and thus have eternal life? If you are a Catholic you do. No other Christian denomination believes this doctrine. Even if they did they do not have a validly ordained priest who can pray the Eucharistic prayer. Then God works a miracle to change the bread and wine into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.


Do not be one of the unbelieving disciples. Believe Jesus because he is God and God does not lie.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
113
58
The Bread of Life
Recorded in the Gospels in a couple of places Jesus says something figurative and his disciples misunderstand and take him literally. Jesus does not leave them in ignorance but corrects them. The first example occurs in Mt 16:5-12. The disciples have forgotten to bring bread on their journey. Jesus then tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, The disciples think he has said this because they forgot to bring bread. Jesus then explains clearly that he is not talking about bread but the teachings of the Pharisees. The next example is Jn 4:31-34. Here again Jesus speaks about food in a figurative way. The disciples encourage Jesus to eat something. Jesus says he has food to eat. The disciples think someone else had brought him food. Jesus then tells them that his food is to do the will of his Father.

Now let us consider Jn chapter 6 where Jesus talks about food everyone of his followers must eat to have eternal life. Here is Jn 6:51-69.

[SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[SUP]52 [/SUP]The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [SUP]54 [/SUP]he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [SUP]56 [/SUP]He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” [SUP]61 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [SUP]62 [/SUP]Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
[SUP]66 [/SUP]After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” [SUP]68 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; [SUP]69 [/SUP]and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”

Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (Jn 6:51–69). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.

In verse 51 Jesus says he is the bread that came down from heaven and the bread that he would give for the life of the world was his flesh. Now I can understand how some one might not be sure what Jesus meant by this. They would need for him to elaborate. But in v 52 the Jews take him literally to mean they had to eat his actual flesh. I am sure they imagined walking up to Jesus and taking a bite out of his arm and then having to chew it up and swallow it. This is a horrifying and disgusting thought. And besides how many people could he feed? A few hundred and he would be all gone.
In v 53 Jesus does not explain that he is speaking figuratively but doubles down and in the most clear and concise manner says [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

Jesus goes on to repeat this teaching by my count 5 times. Then in v 60 and 66 it says many of his disciples fell away over this teaching. Remember Jesus is God and he could read the thoughts of everyone of these disciples. He knew they understood him correctly so there was no need to correct them. What is going on here is that Jesus is testing the faith of his disciples and apostles. Just like God tested Abraham several times and Abraham says to himself “God says it and God does not lie so therefore I believe.” Jesus could have told them how he would do this. He would work a miracle at the Last Supper and change bread into his flesh and wine into his blood. It would still look and taste like bread and wine but would actually be his flesh and blood. They did not have the faith of Abraham. Either they did not believe it was God speaking to them or they did not believe in the truthfulness of God.

Many non-Catholics say that in v 63 Jesus is telling the crowd that he is speaking figuratively. When Jesus uses the word flesh here he is not talking about his actual own flesh but in the sense St Paul does in Rom 8:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,. Furthermore no where in scripture is the word spirit used to mean metaphorical or figurative. If this were true he let many disciples walk away and lose their salvation over a misunderstanding. Jesus wants to save everyone and he would not do that. Remember the disciples leave in v 66 which is after v63 where some say Jesus says he is speaking figuratively.

Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ and thus have eternal life? If you are a Catholic you do. No other Christian denomination believes this doctrine. Even if they did they do not have a validly ordained priest who can pray the Eucharistic prayer. Then God works a miracle to change the bread and wine into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.

Do not be one of the unbelieving disciples. Believe Jesus because he is God and God does not lie.
Jesus is the Bread of Life. Just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:35)

As He was accustomed, Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

The literal interpretation is absurd and revolting, leading to cannibalism and the drinking of blood contrary to the commandment of God. No eating of any flesh can give spiritual life. By faith we partake of Christ, and the benefits of His bodily sacrifice on the cross and the merits of His shed blood, receiving and enjoying eternal life. Eating and drinking is not with the mouth and the digestive organs of our bodies, but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language. Compare for example the following two verses:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life” (verse 47).

“He who eats this bread will live forever” (verse 58).

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” because the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also obvious between verses 40 and 54:

“Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 40).

“Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 54).

John 6 does not afford any support to the false Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is an emphatic statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
The Bread of Life
Recorded in the Gospels in a couple of places Jesus says something figurative and his disciples misunderstand and take him literally. Jesus does not leave them in ignorance but corrects them. The first example occurs in Mt 16:5-12. The disciples have forgotten to bring bread on their journey. Jesus then tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, The disciples think he has said this because they forgot to bring bread. Jesus then explains clearly that he is not talking about bread but the teachings of the Pharisees. The next example is Jn 4:31-34. Here again Jesus speaks about food in a figurative way. The disciples encourage Jesus to eat something. Jesus says he has food to eat. The disciples think someone else had brought him food. Jesus then tells them that his food is to do the will of his Father.


Now let us consider Jn chapter 6 where Jesus talks about food everyone of his followers must eat to have eternal life. Here is Jn 6:51-69.


[SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[SUP]52 [/SUP]The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [SUP]54 [/SUP]he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [SUP]56 [/SUP]He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” [SUP]61 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [SUP]62 [/SUP]Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
[SUP]66 [/SUP]After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” [SUP]68 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; [SUP]69 [/SUP]and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”


Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (Jn 6:51–69). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.


In verse 51 Jesus says he is the bread that came down from heaven and the bread that he would give for the life of the world was his flesh. Now I can understand how some one might not be sure what Jesus meant by this. They would need for him to elaborate. But in v 52 the Jews take him literally to mean they had to eat his actual flesh. I am sure they imagined walking up to Jesus and taking a bite out of his arm and then having to chew it up and swallow it. This is a horrifying and disgusting thought. And besides how many people could he feed? A few hundred and he would be all gone.
In v 53 Jesus does not explain that he is speaking figuratively but doubles down and in the most clear and concise manner says [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;


Jesus goes on to repeat this teaching by my count 5 times. Then in v 60 and 66 it says many of his disciples fell away over this teaching. Remember Jesus is God and he could read the thoughts of everyone of these disciples. He knew they understood him correctly so there was no need to correct them. What is going on here is that Jesus is testing the faith of his disciples and apostles. Just like God tested Abraham several times and Abraham says to himself “God says it and God does not lie so therefore I believe.” Jesus could have told them how he would do this. He would work a miracle at the Last Supper and change bread into his flesh and wine into his blood. It would still look and taste like bread and wine but would actually be his flesh and blood. They did not have the faith of Abraham. Either they did not believe it was God speaking to them or they did not believe in the truthfulness of God.


Many non-Catholics say that in v 63 Jesus is telling the crowd that he is speaking figuratively. When Jesus uses the word flesh here he is not talking about his actual own flesh but in the sense St Paul does in Rom 8:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,. Furthermore no where in scripture is the word spirit used to mean metaphorical or figurative. If this were true he let many disciples walk away and lose their salvation over a misunderstanding. Jesus wants to save everyone and he would not do that. Remember the disciples leave in v 66 which is after v63 where some say Jesus says he is speaking figuratively.


Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ and thus have eternal life? If you are a Catholic you do. No other Christian denomination believes this doctrine. Even if they did they do not have a validly ordained priest who can pray the Eucharistic prayer. Then God works a miracle to change the bread and wine into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.


Do not be one of the unbelieving disciples. Believe Jesus because he is God and God does not lie.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
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Even if they did they do not have a validly ordained priest who can pray the Eucharistic prayer. Then God works a miracle to change the bread and wine into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.
Unless you can find Scripture to support this teaching, you have to believe that it is a purely Roman Catholic belief.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
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72
No doubt the RCC has some noticeable heresies, but just dropping out of it does not guarantee salvation. Some protestant churches have a "perfect" theology, but they lack spirituality -- their preachers sound like lawyers teaching civil code.

Some five years ago I talked hours with a Catholic deacon who sat next to me on a plane and we shared what we have in common: the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, the transforming grace of our God, our need for holiness, etc.

I told him about my recent thyroid cancer surgery and the high risk of metastasis. He said, from the bottom of his heart: "Tonight I will, together with members of my church, pray for you". I felt he was earnest about that and I really believed their prayer would make a difference.

A few months ago my doctor said: "I was sure your cancer would recur in less than 3 years because the tumor was too big, but now the chances of metastasis are less than 1%". I feel in my heart that the prayer of those Catholics made a difference.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
Why does he let many of his disciples fall away and lose their salvation over a misunderstanding? Jesus could read their minds and knew they did not misunderstand him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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The Bread of Life
Recorded in the Gospels in a couple of places Jesus says something figurative and his disciples misunderstand and take him literally. Jesus does not leave them in ignorance but corrects them. The first example occurs in Mt 16:5-12. The disciples have forgotten to bring bread on their journey. Jesus then tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, The disciples think he has said this because they forgot to bring bread. Jesus then explains clearly that he is not talking about bread but the teachings of the Pharisees. The next example is Jn 4:31-34. Here again Jesus speaks about food in a figurative way. The disciples encourage Jesus to eat something. Jesus says he has food to eat. The disciples think someone else had brought him food. Jesus then tells them that his food is to do the will of his Father.


Now let us consider Jn chapter 6 where Jesus talks about food everyone of his followers must eat to have eternal life. Here is Jn 6:51-69.


[SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[SUP]52 [/SUP]The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [SUP]54 [/SUP]he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [SUP]56 [/SUP]He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. [SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. [SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
[SUP]60 [/SUP]Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” [SUP]61 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [SUP]62 [/SUP]Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
[SUP]66 [/SUP]After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” [SUP]68 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; [SUP]69 [/SUP]and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”


Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (Jn 6:51–69). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.


In verse 51 Jesus says he is the bread that came down from heaven and the bread that he would give for the life of the world was his flesh. Now I can understand how some one might not be sure what Jesus meant by this. They would need for him to elaborate. But in v 52 the Jews take him literally to mean they had to eat his actual flesh. I am sure they imagined walking up to Jesus and taking a bite out of his arm and then having to chew it up and swallow it. This is a horrifying and disgusting thought. And besides how many people could he feed? A few hundred and he would be all gone.
In v 53 Jesus does not explain that he is speaking figuratively but doubles down and in the most clear and concise manner says [SUP]53 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;


Jesus goes on to repeat this teaching by my count 5 times. Then in v 60 and 66 it says many of his disciples fell away over this teaching. Remember Jesus is God and he could read the thoughts of everyone of these disciples. He knew they understood him correctly so there was no need to correct them. What is going on here is that Jesus is testing the faith of his disciples and apostles. Just like God tested Abraham several times and Abraham says to himself “God says it and God does not lie so therefore I believe.” Jesus could have told them how he would do this. He would work a miracle at the Last Supper and change bread into his flesh and wine into his blood. It would still look and taste like bread and wine but would actually be his flesh and blood. They did not have the faith of Abraham. Either they did not believe it was God speaking to them or they did not believe in the truthfulness of God.


Many non-Catholics say that in v 63 Jesus is telling the crowd that he is speaking figuratively. When Jesus uses the word flesh here he is not talking about his actual own flesh but in the sense St Paul does in Rom 8:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,. Furthermore no where in scripture is the word spirit used to mean metaphorical or figurative. If this were true he let many disciples walk away and lose their salvation over a misunderstanding. Jesus wants to save everyone and he would not do that. Remember the disciples leave in v 66 which is after v63 where some say Jesus says he is speaking figuratively.


Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ and thus have eternal life? If you are a Catholic you do. No other Christian denomination believes this doctrine. Even if they did they do not have a validly ordained priest who can pray the Eucharistic prayer. Then God works a miracle to change the bread and wine into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.


Do not be one of the unbelieving disciples. Believe Jesus because he is God and God does not lie.
Jesus talk figurative about bread AS His flesh. He took a bread and say this is May body. He not torn His arm and say this is my body. Obious It is figurative.

for sure bring you communion wafer and wine to the laboratorium, test It If turn to meat after your priest pray for It.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Catholicism is a lost religion. Steeped in legalism, ritualism and has many unscriptural doctrinal practices.

Having said that the fundamental doctrine of christendom is found within thier faith statement.

A genius IQ, a degree in theology or being a walking lexicon isn't necessary for salvation.

Any person the believes God sent Christ. That the sinless Son of God, died for thier sins, was buried & rose again the 3rd day.

Can will total confidence, by faith alone, without doubt or shame. Stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Expecting the promised reward of eternal life

1Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Titus1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Ephesians 2:
8 By grace" are ye saved through faith not of yourselves it is the gift of God

9 Not of works lest any man should boast
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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"Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged". It always helps me to read the Sermon on the Mount.
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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Exactly. To take the words of Jesus literally is to miss His message.
 

Fezzy75

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2018
2
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catholics are not Christians...
They pray to dead people ... Christians pray to God..
They pray repitious prayers .. Christians believe Jesus when he said do not pray repitious prayers..


Thats just two of many examples... Anyone who does not believe Jesus, who rejects His words are not Christians..
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[h=1]Matthew 26:44 English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][SUP]44 [/SUP]So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again.

There is nothing wrong with repetition since the Good Lord did it. Also, if we were taught the Lord's Prayer as being the only prayer we need then its safe to say that praying that prayer daily is repetitious also.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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sometimes Blue,

this gibberish is not what they can conceive it of being, and so, maybe this is a 'test' =
to LOVE the gibberishers...:eek::eek::rolleyes::)
 
Feb 28, 2016
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those whom our Holy Saviour has called and chosen and elected', are of NO DE-nomination',
they are simply 'Christians', those who Love an Adore and are doing their very best to OBEY
and SERVE their Holy Saviour in their gratitude for His Holy Sacrifice for mankind...