Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[tourist]

That might be your definition of a Catholic, but that isn't the definition of Catholic held by most Catholics.

Usually in debate it's good to make a distinction between "Catholics" and "official Catholic doctrine"... because the two seldom represent univocal beliefs.




I think this statement is both compassionate and realistic.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[tourist]

Hey, man! Get a grip on reality! And while you are at it—read the Bible!

Yeah, get with the Word.

 

[oldethennew]

it's always good to keep in mind the reality of the 'false churches'...

in the soon coming times, the enlightened shall be beseeching many to forsake the w....,
and all of her daughters in a lamb's disguise...

rome shall burn once more, for she is that wicked city - but, have no pity on her you saints,
for she is tainted with the martyer's blood...

 

[beastslayer1970]

it's always good to keep in mind the reality of the 'false churches'...

in the soon coming times, the enlightened shall be beseeching many to forsake the w....,
and all of her daughters in a lamb's disguise...

rome shall burn once more, for she is that wicked city - but, have no pity on her you saints,
for she is tainted with the martyer's blood...

I personally cannot see any scriptural support that the Beast or false prophet is a movement or church denomination. We must always remember that Satan seeks to be as God is and he counterfeits everything of God. Deception is his only weapon.

With that said, we must then look to the fact that Satan will do his best to imitate God and this includes his Triune nature.

This is why I believe the beast is a single man, the false prophet is a single man and Satan himself is already the god of this world.

A demonic Triune nature would like this in it's deception

Satan=impersonating God

The Beast=impersonating Jesus Christ

The False Prophet=impersonating the Holy Spirit

 

[Adstar]

This seems like an extremely arbitrary definition of "Catholic."

If you're going to define a thing, you'll also have to prove that definition is true.


We have two problems here:


1. You'll need to back up your definition - you'll have to prove your definition with something stronger than your presumptions, like official statements from the Catholic church.

A. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is the only entity with the authority to determine who is officially a Catholic, as they have full and sole authority to set their own standards and definitions. Since it is the Catholic Church which creates and maintains membership in the Catholic Church, and thus determines WHO IS CATHOLIC, you'll have to find something which supports your position from their own official sources.

B. Since the Catholic church allows all kinds of craziness within their ranks, I don't think you'll be able to find any official statements that deny membership to every person with the slightest disagreement.

If you CAN produce some kind of statement saying all Catholics must believe only and all official policies in order to have membership in the Catholic Church, and they can never change their mind about the slightest things without losing that standing... then I'm quite certain I can turn around and find official statements loosening that restriction.

If you can find some ancient decrees declaring the slightest disagreement as heresy, I'm quiet sure I can find more recent decrees abrogating those... as the Catholic Church changes it's positions continually.

There are even priests and cardinals who openly defy standard church doctrines.
Good grief, the Popes don't even agree with each other.
Good luck with this.



2. If you DO back up this definition of "Catholic" with official church statements (which I doubt is possible), you'll still need to show how this is in any way RELEVANT or PERSUASIVE to the average Catholic.

"I'm a Catholic."
"No you're not."
"I'm a Catholic."
"No you're not."

This isn't very persuasive.

How much time exactly do you intend to waste arguing with a Catholic trying to tell him he's not really a Catholic?
Even if you ARE correct, no one is going to accept any label except the label of their own choosing... so this argument, even IF correct, is still futile.

I understand this may be useful for witnessing, to show a "catholic" they don't actually agree with the Catholic Church... this can be a good "starting place" for witnessing.
But here you're dealing only with ontology, and not epistemology.
If a person WANTS to be a CATHOLIC, and BELIEVES they are a Catholic, and they intend to REMAIN a Catholic... then although you can debate them, your DEBATE HAS NO MAGICAL POWER TO PERSUADE THEM.

And I'm not at all convinced you can prove a Catholic is not a Catholic to begin with.
The most you can do is show where they disagree with some church doctrines... and this doesn't officially turn them into a non-catholic.

So much drivel when the basic facts are clear..

The doctrine of infallibility of the Magisterium of the catholic cult is well established to anyone who is honest about history.. Their claim is that all the popes have been infallible in an unbroken line of succession since the time of Peter, This is well established and taught in the catholic church.. I know this because i was a catholic for 20 years and went to a nunnery primary school and a Marist brothers High / college.. I did 10 years as a altar boy and my uncle is a catholic priest..

All official teachings delivered by the official catholic authorities MUST be accepted without resistance by all catholic adherents of the catholic cult.. No ifs.. No buts..

And i don't care if my stating facts is futile to those who are destined to the eternal lake of fire.. I know those who will believe the truth will be called out of the harlot catholic church by the moving of the Holy Spirit.. So my information is for those who are destined to be Redeemed.. Those who love a lie can remain in the catholic church.. They will be judged by what they approved..

 

[Adstar]

Really? What denomination exactly is one considered a Christian then? You can poke holes in any denomination. I do agree with your last sentence though. I haven't met a Catholic yet that has rejected Jesus.

This thread is about the catholic religion and if it is Christian.. Of course there are many different churches who also have false doctrines.. Some serious false doctrines some have minor disputable matters of no salvational relevance..

So poke holes in any denomination that has doctrinal faults..

And this thread is about the religion of catholicism it is not about catholics.. I have kept my posts on the subject of the religion of catholicism and have avoided any personal attacks on catholics.. But it seems many people come to these threads and are totally unable to differentiate between a person attacking a religon of false doctrines and attacking adherents of those false doctrines.. And so they use words like ""catholic bashing thread "" seeking to undermine the valid points of those who love the deceived and want them to come out of the evil cult they are in..

It is hard enough for people to come out of the harlot false catholic religion without people who are already out of that religion doing their best to undermine people who are trying to play their part in saving others from deception..

I haven't met a Catholic yet that has rejected Jesus.

All who have accepted Jesus believe Jesus.. They believe His teachings.. I already posted two teachings of Jesus that the catholic cult totally reject.. Thus all catholic adherents who accept the infallibility of the catholic authorities and thus the doctrines of the catholic church have indeed rejected the Words of the LORD Jesus Christ..

 

[Dan58]

Here's one thing that bothered me, apparently the Pope doesn't like the wording of the Lord's Prayer?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-suggests-changing-the-words-to-lord-s-prayer

 

[followjesus]

Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved? Please post with scripture.

i think really we arent in a position to decide whther another group of believers are saved or not, whether they call themselves a different denomination. what it ultimately comes down to is if we accept what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, and actually accept what Jesus Christ himself says of His Kingdom. what His apostles taught after that as well. im positive that Our judgement will come down to the way we chose to Live our lives after accepting Jesus Christ. there are many catholics who go into the world and Love people biblically, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and lonely or lame.


There is no official denomination, its about our personal walk understanding that we are to receive the Holy spirit and walk in His ways. Mercy doesnt end because we learn and change our ways to obey the Lord, were imperfect people with a Heart for Jesus and the Things of God. His mercy is new each day, but His words will still never change regarding obedience. its about Loving the Ones around us in the World, Gods Way and doing it because He Loved us so much He suffered and died. I expect to see many denominations represented in eternal Life, Because there are good christian followers of Jesus in all of them, wouldnt be too suprised to see catholics right there with us, depending on how they lived thier Life in Christ, not the traditions were born into. Heres Jesus take on it....

Matthew 25 : When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Sagart]

a very sweet Post, Willie, but we always have to remember and acknowledge what the
catholic-church-world has done and those who are behind the scenes, manipulating the
poor and destitute, and the widows and fatherless for their OWN GAIN, just look at their wealth
and the ways in which they display them: it's un-fathomable and mind boggling at the control that
they have over the 'poor and needy, lame lambs and sick...
hub and I call it 'witch-craft' to the max, the Bible tells us all about it...

This entire post is delusional!

I live in one of the wealthiest parts of the country. In the zip code right across the bridge from my house, the houses currently for sale range in price from $ $1,145,000-$13,900,000. In my city, 89 of the houses are currently for sale for from $3,099,000- $19,988,000! Yet within five blocks of my city’s civic center, there are right now, as I write, hundreds of homeless men, women, and children sleeping on the sidewalks in the shelter of the commercial buildings. The closest Baptist church to my house has a sign out in front that reads, “People are loved here,” yet the church has no programs of any kind to help the poor—and its doors are open for only 90 minutes once a week. The closest Methodist church to my house aggressively preaches that the homosexuals’ sexuality is a gift from God that should not be ignored.

However, the closest Roman Catholic Church to my house opens it doors seven days a week and has many programs throughout the week to minister to both the spiritual and the physical needs of the people in the community. It aggressively preaches that the practice of homosexuality is a mortal sin, and that a real marriage is ONLY between one man and one woman—and that the marriage vows are to be truly kept unto death.

The go to place for help for the very poorest of those homeless people is a Roman Catholic ministry to the extreme poor—people so poor and so severely in need that most other ministries in my city considers them to be beyond help.

Some years ago, I rented the second floor of a two-story building in the red light district of skid row in a large port city for a place to pioneer an inner-city church. That second floor had not been occupied for more that 20 years. The roof had been leaking for a long time, and the asphalt tiles on the floor were coming lose because of the rainwater. The plaster ceiling was falling to the floor in chunks also because of the rainwater. There was only one restroom—and it had no hot water. My home church thought that I was a fool for renting a space in such horrible condition, but a regular congregation of believers began to meet there on the second floor. We had an area that we wanted to use for a dining room, but we did not have any tables and chairs—and no money with which to purchase them. Consequently, without asking me for my permission, some members of the congregation went to the other churches in that extremely poor neighborhood and asked them to give us at least one old table or a chair, but none of the churches gave us anything. That is, none of them but one—the Roman Catholic Church.

Although the Church and its members were very poor, the priest told his congregation of our need, and asked them to give us a table or a chair from their homes. The church collected four old wooden tables, and sixteen old wooden chairs—all different—and brought them to us. Looking at the tables and chairs, and seeing that they were all different from each other, we realized that sixteen of those very poor Catholic families had given us a chair from their own kitchen; and that four of the families had given to us their own kitchen table! They knew that we were not Catholic Christians—but what mattered to them was that we were Christians who needed help.

During the years that I served as the senior pastor of that inner city church, I met multitudes of people that most of the other churches in the community wanted nothing to do with, and I heard from them horror stories about how other pastors and Christians had treated them. I also heard, over the years, some of these people tell me about a man of God whom they had met on the street where they were—a man who encountered them in the darkest and most sinful time in lives, and who manifested to them through his love and compassion the person of Christ. They had no idea, however, that this man was the senior pastor of the largest church in the city with eleven associate and assistant pastors working with him. This man had a personal relationship with God that was so pure and so spotless that Christ brightly shined through his daily life. I had the pleasure of spending 90 minutes with this man in his office at the Roman Catholic Cathedral where he served as the rector. During those 90 minutes, his secretary did not once knock on the door or even put through a telephone call—the monsignor treated me, a Protestant, as though I was a member of his own family!

 

[JaumeJ]

As I have posted before, people in all denominations are believers.

Also as I have posted, I cannot in all good conscience accept any denomination of Christianity or Judaism as anything other than sectarian.

When reading the title of the OP, I think in terms of "Are Christians Truly Sonds of Abraham with the Faith of Abraham" as Jesus teaches us to be?

 

[Jackson123]

This entire post is delusional!

I live in one of the wealthiest parts of the country. In the zip code right across the bridge from my house, the houses currently for sale range in price from $ $1,145,000-$13,900,000. In my city, 89 of the houses are currently for sale for from $3,099,000- $19,988,000! Yet within five blocks of my city’s civic center, there are right now, as I write, hundreds of homeless men, women, and children sleeping on the sidewalks in the shelter of the commercial buildings. The closest Baptist church to my house has a sign out in front that reads, “People are loved here,” yet the church has no programs of any kind to help the poor—and its doors are open for only 90 minutes once a week. The closest Methodist church to my house aggressively preaches that the homosexuals’ sexuality is a gift from God that should not be ignored.

However, the closest Roman Catholic Church to my house opens it doors seven days a week and has many programs throughout the week to minister to both the spiritual and the physical needs of the people in the community. It aggressively preaches that the practice of homosexuality is a mortal sin, and that a real marriage is ONLY between one man and one woman—and that the marriage vows are to be truly kept unto death.

The go to place for help for the very poorest of those homeless people is a Roman Catholic ministry to the extreme poor—people so poor and so severely in need that most other ministries in my city considers them to be beyond help.

Some years ago, I rented the second floor of a two-story building in the red light district of skid row in a large port city for a place to pioneer an inner-city church. That second floor had not been occupied for more that 20 years. The roof had been leaking for a long time, and the asphalt tiles on the floor were coming lose because of the rainwater. The plaster ceiling was falling to the floor in chunks also because of the rainwater. There was only one restroom—and it had no hot water. My home church thought that I was a fool for renting a space in such horrible condition, but a regular congregation of believers began to meet there on the second floor. We had an area that we wanted to use for a dining room, but we did not have any tables and chairs—and no money with which to purchase them. Consequently, without asking me for my permission, some members of the congregation went to the other churches in that extremely poor neighborhood and asked them to give us at least one old table or a chair, but none of the churches gave us anything. That is, none of them but one—the Roman Catholic Church.

Although the Church and its members were very poor, the priest told his congregation of our need, and asked them to give us a table or a chair from their homes. The church collected four old wooden tables, and sixteen old wooden chairs—all different—and brought them to us. Looking at the tables and chairs, and seeing that they were all different from each other, we realized that sixteen of those very poor Catholic families had given us a chair from their own kitchen; and that four of the families had given to us their own kitchen table! They knew that we were not Catholic Christians—but what mattered to them was that we were Christians who needed help.

During the years that I served as the senior pastor of that inner city church, I met multitudes of people that most of the other churches in the community wanted nothing to do with, and I heard from them horror stories about how other pastors and Christians had treated them. I also heard, over the years, some of these people tell me about a man of God whom they had met on the street where they were—a man who encountered them in the darkest and most sinful time in lives, and who manifested to them through his love and compassion the person of Christ. They had no idea, however, that this man was the senior pastor of the largest church in the city with eleven associate and assistant pastors working with him. This man had a personal relationship with God that was so pure and so spotless that Christ brightly shined through his daily life. I had the pleasure of spending 90 minutes with this man in his office at the Roman Catholic Cathedral where he served as the rector. During those 90 minutes, his secretary did not once knock on the door or even put through a telephone call—the monsignor treated me, a Protestant, as though I was a member of his own family!

we are talking about the doctrine.

In my country muslim make a Lot of orphanage, Buddhis make a clean and beautiful home for elderly, about a year ago Jakarta's governur give Buddhis appreciation for helping the poor elderly. Is that make Buddhis or muslim Christian?

i do not believe catholic is Christian because catholic pray to Mary and promote one world government

 

[jb]

In the last 5 or 6 years, I have come to find that when I read the Bible for what it is, and how it is truly written, I cannot, with an honest clarity, accept some of the things I was taught by sincere people I respected.... and who fully believed what they taught me.

Many people, right here, have called me quite a few names for that. Because they still believe some of the things I no longer do.

Sincere Catholics were taught things by sincere people whom they respected. And we Protestants are, as a whole, calling their respected teachers some of the most vile names to come out of a human mouth.

Catholics are really not a bit different than some of us in that they will die on the hill of stubbornly defending the things they were taught by people they believe in. We do exactly the same.

I could care less about trying to damn the Catholic religion. But, it is a serious disappointment to me that people claiming to love like Christ does, seem to almost take glee in abusing people in that church, when they detest it being done to them by nonbelievers.

I think a lot of things are wrong in what both Catholics and Protestants swear they believe. But, I see my place as to only follow Jesus as I have come to know Him, .... NOT to slam the beliefs of others when they are simply trying their best to worship the same God as I claim to worship.

All I can honestly tell someone (Catholic or Protestant) is how I understand things..... NOT that they are wrong.

Willie, a really nice balanced and compassionate post.

Thanks

 

[tourist]

This thread is about the catholic religion and if it is Christian.. Of course there are many different churches who also have false doctrines.. Some serious false doctrines some have minor disputable matters of no salvational relevance..

So poke holes in any denomination that has doctrinal faults..

And this thread is about the religion of catholicism it is not about catholics.. I have kept my posts on the subject of the religion of catholicism and have avoided any personal attacks on catholics.. But it seems many people come to these threads and are totally unable to differentiate between a person attacking a religon of false doctrines and attacking adherents of those false doctrines.. And so they use words like ""catholic bashing thread "" seeking to undermine the valid points of those who love the deceived and want them to come out of the evil cult they are in..

It is hard enough for people to come out of the harlot false catholic religion without people who are already out of that religion doing their best to undermine people who are trying to play their part in saving others from deception..



All who have accepted Jesus believe Jesus.. They believe His teachings.. I already posted two teachings of Jesus that the catholic cult totally reject.. Thus all catholic adherents who accept the infallibility of the catholic authorities and thus the doctrines of the catholic church have indeed rejected the Words of the LORD Jesus Christ..

I have yet to see a thread dedicated to bashing or questioning any denomination except for SDA which believes in tithing and the Sabbath. I would have to surmise then that the general consensus is that the many other denominations are perfect in all doctrine and practices according to scripture. I find this hard to believe.

 

[tourist]

we are talking about the doctrine.

In my country muslim make a Lot of orphanage, Buddhis make a clean and beautiful home for elderly, about a year ago Jakarta's governur give Buddhis appreciation for helping the poor elderly. Is that make Buddhis or muslim Christian?

i do not believe catholic is Christian because catholic pray to Mary and promote one world government

I have yet to meet a Catholic yet that supports a one world government.

 

[tourist]

This entire post is delusional!

I live in one of the wealthiest parts of the country. In the zip code right across the bridge from my house, the houses currently for sale range in price from $ $1,145,000-$13,900,000. In my city, 89 of the houses are currently for sale for from $3,099,000- $19,988,000! Yet within five blocks of my city’s civic center, there are right now, as I write, hundreds of homeless men, women, and children sleeping on the sidewalks in the shelter of the commercial buildings. The closest Baptist church to my house has a sign out in front that reads, “People are loved here,” yet the church has no programs of any kind to help the poor—and its doors are open for only 90 minutes once a week. The closest Methodist church to my house aggressively preaches that the homosexuals’ sexuality is a gift from God that should not be ignored.

However, the closest Roman Catholic Church to my house opens it doors seven days a week and has many programs throughout the week to minister to both the spiritual and the physical needs of the people in the community. It aggressively preaches that the practice of homosexuality is a mortal sin, and that a real marriage is ONLY between one man and one woman—and that the marriage vows are to be truly kept unto death.

The go to place for help for the very poorest of those homeless people is a Roman Catholic ministry to the extreme poor—people so poor and so severely in need that most other ministries in my city considers them to be beyond help.

Some years ago, I rented the second floor of a two-story building in the red light district of skid row in a large port city for a place to pioneer an inner-city church. That second floor had not been occupied for more that 20 years. The roof had been leaking for a long time, and the asphalt tiles on the floor were coming lose because of the rainwater. The plaster ceiling was falling to the floor in chunks also because of the rainwater. There was only one restroom—and it had no hot water. My home church thought that I was a fool for renting a space in such horrible condition, but a regular congregation of believers began to meet there on the second floor. We had an area that we wanted to use for a dining room, but we did not have any tables and chairs—and no money with which to purchase them. Consequently, without asking me for my permission, some members of the congregation went to the other churches in that extremely poor neighborhood and asked them to give us at least one old table or a chair, but none of the churches gave us anything. That is, none of them but one—the Roman Catholic Church.

Although the Church and its members were very poor, the priest told his congregation of our need, and asked them to give us a table or a chair from their homes. The church collected four old wooden tables, and sixteen old wooden chairs—all different—and brought them to us. Looking at the tables and chairs, and seeing that they were all different from each other, we realized that sixteen of those very poor Catholic families had given us a chair from their own kitchen; and that four of the families had given to us their own kitchen table! They knew that we were not Catholic Christians—but what mattered to them was that we were Christians who needed help.

During the years that I served as the senior pastor of that inner city church, I met multitudes of people that most of the other churches in the community wanted nothing to do with, and I heard from them horror stories about how other pastors and Christians had treated them. I also heard, over the years, some of these people tell me about a man of God whom they had met on the street where they were—a man who encountered them in the darkest and most sinful time in lives, and who manifested to them through his love and compassion the person of Christ. They had no idea, however, that this man was the senior pastor of the largest church in the city with eleven associate and assistant pastors working with him. This man had a personal relationship with God that was so pure and so spotless that Christ brightly shined through his daily life. I had the pleasure of spending 90 minutes with this man in his office at the Roman Catholic Cathedral where he served as the rector. During those 90 minutes, his secretary did not once knock on the door or even put through a telephone call—the monsignor treated me, a Protestant, as though I was a member of his own family!

I agree with you. The Catholic church actively promotes many programs for those less fortunate, even those not of that faith or even what is considered to be a Christian. They help those that are the least of the brothers as taught by Jesus in many parts of the bible. The other churches and denominations talk a good game but many, not all, but many fall far short in being a good neighbor and sensitive to those that are hurting the most. Something about love your neighbor as yourself. I really haven't seen much of that. You are right in saying that the Catholic church treats everyone as family and has great concern for their physical and spiritual well being. This is seriously lacking in most churches. Very sad.

 

[JaumeJ]

You have not read my posts...

I have yet to see a thread dedicated to bashing or questioning any denomination except for SDA which believes in tithing and the Sabbath. I would have to surmise then that the general consensus is that the many other denominations are perfect in all doctrine and practices according to scripture. I find this hard to believe.

 

[notuptome]

There are some Christians in the Roman catholic church. They are not Christians because of Roman catholic doctrine but in spite of it. Most openly Christian catholics are not all that welcome in the catholic church.

The pope is catholic but not a Christian. Apostates talk like they believe but they do not believe. The pope has more respect for Mary than for Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have yet to see a thread dedicated to bashing or questioning any denomination except for SDA which believes in tithing and the Sabbath. I would have to surmise then that the general consensus is that the many other denominations are perfect in all doctrine and practices according to scripture. I find this hard to believe.

The RCC is not another denomination. It considers itself the one and only true church, with Peter as its first pope. Also there is no other church which has been so thoroughly compromised by false doctrines and false practices. The bottom line is that when the salvation of souls is at stake, no church is exempt for a serious examination of what it teaches and how it places millions of souls in bondage. All non-Catholics are still considered heretics, and if we lived in the Middle Ages, we would all be subject to serious persecution by this so-called church.

 

[Muzungu256]

all these churches are started by some man somewhere..........

 

[tourist]

You have not read my posts...

Sorry, must have missed them. Anyway, I have always consider that you take a balance approach in discussing other denominations, good or bad. Some members are more that fair but others seem to always chose to bring up the flaws about the Catholic faith exclusively without even saying what they're own denomination is, if any, and any flawed practice or doctrine that may exist. Seems hypercritical to me. I don't think of you this way at all.