Is faith a work?

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Polar

Active member
May 8, 2022
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#41
If faith is a 'work' and we are created in Christ Jesus to do 'good works', how is faith before coming to faith , but having the faith to believe (oh I know that annoys the Calvinist) a work?

When can we ask for a raise? :unsure:
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
601
102
43
#42
Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

It's a difference in what Jesus had to do, then what we have to do. We have to repent which means change ours ways and condition, give up a life style of sin, and get baptize in the name of Jesus coming under the his blood. People don't realize the work you have to do is on yourself. It starts off with faith, then works. Let's go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? A person can have all the faith they want, but if they have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

Now let's talk a little about what Jesus came to do. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
655
254
63
#43
Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.
That's a tough one, but I'll try.
Grace is a gift, but so is faith. The scripture says everyone has been given the measure of faith.
"not of works, lest any man should boast" means that any personal ability/effort will not get it done because with man it's impossible, but with God all things are possible.
So, is believing God a work?
It is for me, because I have to guard my heart to make sure I'm believing God instead of going back to my old ways. And boy, sometimes that's hard work.
Then there's the book of James that says faith without works is dead, being alone. Can't argue with the Word.
Then there's the Apostle Paul who says"I can do all things thru Christ which strengthens me". All things includes believing.
That's why Jesus says that the work of God is to believe on Him who He has sent.
No personal effort of our own can do this. God gave us both the grace & faith to believe Him, because He knows without Him we can do nothing.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,573
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#44
Agreed. The twelve baskets of pieces was an indication that, even though they had all they could eat, they consumed not a morsel of Him: the bread from heaven.
amen, amen, amen!
there were leftovers!!!
He is more than enough

Do you not yet understand?
or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?
Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?
(Matthew 16:9-10)
beware the leaven of the pharisees! -- do not imagine He is insufficient; that anything must be added to Him
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,573
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#45
Not at all. The Jews were the ones asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "What must we do to be saved?" they wanted to know how they might "work the works of God" (do miracles). So they received an ironic reply. And to speak about Christ as a slick politician is simply blasphemous.
i get you.

essentially,
they should not have been asking about what they can do, but about what God is doing.


i agree, and i am contending that, this shows they did not understand the signs they were given
they asked for a path to power, like Simon the sorcerer thinking it was something to be purchased!

((so they kept asking for signs, and received many, but the only one they, in their unbelief, would be assigned, is that of Jonah))

all glory is His
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,573
11,525
113
#46
That's for sure, brother.
i love you bro

sometimes, you just make my heart smile, and i know no way to humanly express it

"hugs, man" -- a friend of mine says ((one day you'll meet him, in the air)) -- when i gather he feels the same
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,573
11,525
113
#47
If faith is a 'work' and we are created in Christ Jesus to do 'good works', how is faith before coming to faith , but having the faith to believe (oh I know that annoys the Calvinist) a work?

When can we ask for a raise? :unsure:
because it's not our work, but His work -- "the work of God is this" -- and we should be perpetually asking for a raise: for His name to be raised yet higher!


((stock calvinist© answer #836))
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,878
2,897
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#48
because it's not our work, but His work -- "the work of God is this" -- and we should be perpetually asking for a raise: for His name to be raised yet higher!


((stock calvinist© answer #836))
I've been reading through these answers. One thing I am certain of is that Jesus meant exactly what He said, despite some people trying to say He meant the opposite of what He said or that He was speaking ironically. I think when we start trying to assign irony to narratives in the Bible based on subjective metrics like "we feel like it's irony" then we have stepped onto a slippery slope then we can start making the Bible say anything we want it to. That'll just lead to division and countless arguments. I prefer the literalists approach as much as possible unless there is a good reason to see symbolism. Jesus doesn't seem to be using any symbols in John 6:28,29.

From what I see in John 6:28,29 is that they asked what they can do to perform the works of God and Jesus said the work of God is that they believe in the One He sent. That doesn't mean God is working to believe in Jesus, but rather the work that God has assigned for sinners is to believe in Jesus. That's how I know for sure that it isn't "God's work" that He's laboring to complete. Nor is God trying to give the gift of faith to Himself. So the work of God is exactly what it says or it would have been referred to as the gift of faith instead.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,497
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#49
I think when we start trying to assign irony to narratives in the Bible based on subjective metrics like "we feel like it's irony" then we have stepped onto a slippery slope
Both Christ and Paul used irony when necessary. Check it out for yourself.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,878
2,897
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#50
Both Christ and Paul used irony when necessary. Check it out for yourself.
Sometimes life is ironic, but I don't see where they intentionally incorporated the use of irony as a literary device into their teachings. Will you show me what you believe are examples other than John 6?
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,241
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#51
Faith, the belief IN Jesus and his sacrifice which Atones for our sins, is not a work in itself....

But if that faith doesn't cause you to perform works of righteousness by being grateful for what has been done for you....your faith is worthless.

Gratitude is the natural reaction for those who have done great and good things on your behalf.
Look at how much people do for pastors who usually only say words you want to hear (which are morality lessons you already know) people pay them huge salaries, buy them nice things, and revere them like rock stars....

How much more should we do for Christ who literally laid down his life for us? He took on all the humiliation and we take none, He suffered for us and we want "easy street" as a result as if we are entitled....

Gratitude is what causes the reaction based upon that faith. If you believe then you act on that faith. You know that in truth that your acts of righteousness will never equate to what has been done for you...but not making the effort is what evil people do...and you want nothing to do with evil people. You want people to know righteousness as you have discovered it to be.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,241
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#52
Because of my faith....

All that I have been,
All that I currently have
All that I will be and will have

Belongs to God....
Because I am God's slave. I am property and not a self supporting individual.
I exist to enrich my Owners house.
That's the deal...the contract.
It is an unequitable contract as I get the better end of the deal than He.
(Termed as propitiation)

YMMV.
 

Dymes

Junior Member
Dec 11, 2016
79
42
18
#53
Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Faith in God is a gift from God. God gives us faith and through this gift of faith we produce works of faith. Therefore it is the faith working and not us.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,241
1,442
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#54
Ephesians 2:8-9
Faith in God is a gift from God. God gives us faith and through this gift of faith we produce works of faith. Therefore it is the faith working and not us.
Exactly how is faith a gift?
 

Dymes

Junior Member
Dec 11, 2016
79
42
18
#55
Exactly how is faith a gift?
It's a gift because man can not believe or have faith in God without God first seeking the man. Salvation and faith go hand and hand. Salvation is the gift of faith given to the man. It all happens at regeneration when the man is born again and God inserts His spirit within the man. Make sense??
 

Polar

Active member
May 8, 2022
640
172
43
#56
because it's not our work, but His work -- "the work of God is this" -- and we should be perpetually asking for a raise: for His name to be raised yet higher!


((stock calvinist© answer #836))
See, I do not believe faith IS a work. Christ completed all the work on the cross.

at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2: 10-11
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,614
1,841
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#57
amen, amen, amen!
there were leftovers!!!
He is more than enough


Do you not yet understand?
or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?
Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?
(Matthew 16:9-10)
beware the leaven of the pharisees! -- do not imagine He is insufficient; that anything must be added to Him
The gathering of the Twelve Baskets speaks of the Body of Christ = the Twelve Tribes of Israel = Born of the Spirit.

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
John 12:32
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,614
1,841
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#59
See, I do not believe faith IS a work. Christ completed all the work on the cross.

at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2: 10-11
Christ and Christ alone completed the Work of God on the Cross which was Prophesied by God to satan in the Garden.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,614
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#60
Both Christ and Paul used irony when necessary. Check it out for yourself.
Sometimes life is ironic, but I don't see where they intentionally incorporated the use of irony as a literary device into their teachings. Will you show me what you believe are examples other than John 6?

TRUTH in Irony..............Find the Irony in this Passage of Truth ......there are 3

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
“I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”