Is God All-knowing?

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Jun 29, 2019
55
3
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#1
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,502
243
63
#3
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
First let me welcome you to the forums. Your questions is a good one and has been brought up thousands and thousands of times. The reason Jesus did not know the day or hour of His own return/2nd coming is because He became a man or is functioning as a man, not as God.

Pay close attention to what I'm about to say from Philippians 2:5-8. Vs5, "have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, vs6, who, ALTHOUGH He existed in the form of God, (that word although means "in spite of the fact" that He existed or literalld did exist as God, vs7, He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond -servant/man, or being found in the likeness of men."

Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." In other words, Jesus Christ already existed in the form or God or as God, then He took another form which is the form of a man and died for the sins of the world so we could have eternal life and be with God. Does this make sense to you?

You should also know, there are no contradictions in the Bible. My point is the fact that there are ways to "RECONCILE" what appears to be contradictions just like I reconciled your question with the scriptures. Your are completely free to ask "ANY" question you want and I will happy to provide you with a Biblical answer. For example, another question that is always ask is, "If Jesus is God then did God die?" The answer I gave above also answers this question. Hope this helps. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,881
5,358
113
#4
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
Hello Fahad, and welcome to CC,
Your profile says "not Christian" and in your post, you use the words "challenge ... Christianity". If you are here to learn, ask questions, and be respectful of those who hold different views, then you'll do fine. If you're here to stir trouble or promote another religion, you won't last long.

That said, here's my response to your question: the Bible is adequately clear that Jesus is God, and is also adequately clear that the Holy Spirit is God. God is 'spirit', not 'matter' and as such is not limited in the same way that flesh and blood is limited. Jesus was physically born into a body of flesh, and therefore was necessarily unable to function with the same freedom that He has outside of the flesh. God the Father did not reveal to Jesus (when He was in the flesh) the timing for 'that day or hour'. Therefore He did not know. Philippians 2:8 states that Christ "humbled Himself". The immediate context is His crucifixion, but the principle is that as a human being, He simply did not have the same capabilities that God (spirit only) has, one of which is being omniscient.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,973
5,717
113
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#5
Hello Fahad, and welcome to CC,
Your profile says "not Christian" and in your post, you use the words "challenge ... Christianity". If you are here to learn, ask questions, and be respectful of those who hold different views, then you'll do fine. If you're here to stir trouble or promote another religion, you won't last long.

That said, here's my response to your question: the Bible is adequately clear that Jesus is God, and is also adequately clear that the Holy Spirit is God. God is 'spirit', not 'matter' and as such is not limited in the same way that flesh and blood is limited. Jesus was physically born into a body of flesh, and therefore was necessarily unable to function with the same freedom that He has outside of the flesh. God the Father did not reveal to Jesus (when He was in the flesh) the timing for 'that day or hour'. Therefore He did not know. Philippians 2:8 states that Christ "humbled Himself". The immediate context is His crucifixion, but the principle is that as a human being, He simply did not have the same capabilities that God (spirit only) has, one of which is being omniscient.
Amen to all that Dino. I would also like to add that Jesus is no longer "in the flesh." Therefore He does now know the day and hour of His return. He is back to being omniscient. Just like we will be, when we put off the flesh, upon our resurrection.

1 Cor. 13:12
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." :cool:
 
Jun 29, 2019
55
3
3
#6
I
First let me welcome you to the forums. Your questions is a good one and has been brought up thousands and thousands of times. The reason Jesus did not know the day or hour of His own return/2nd coming is because He became a man or is functioning as a man, not as God.

Pay close attention to what I'm about to say from Philippians 2:5-8. Vs5, "have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, vs6, who, ALTHOUGH He existed in the form of God, (that word although means "in spite of the fact" that He existed or literalld did exist as God, vs7, He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond -servant/man, or being found in the likeness of men."

Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." In other words, Jesus Christ already existed in the form or God or as God, then He took another form which is the form of a man and died for the sins of the world so we could have eternal life and be with God. Does this make sense to you?

You should also know, there are no contradictions in the Bible. My point is the fact that there are ways to "RECONCILE" what appears to be contradictions just like I reconciled your question with the scriptures. Your are completely free to ask "ANY" question you want and I will happy to provide you with a Biblical answer. For example, another question that is always ask is, "If Jesus is God then did God die?" The answer I gave above also answers this question. Hope this helps. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Philippians 2:5-8. Vs5, why doesn't Holy Spirit knows of the hour?
 
Jun 29, 2019
55
3
3
#7
Christians happily answer about Jesus, wh
Hello Fahad, and welcome to CC,
Your profile says "not Christian" and in your post, you use the words "challenge ... Christianity". If you are here to learn, ask questions, and be respectful of those who hold different views, then you'll do fine. If you're here to stir trouble or promote another religion, you won't last long.

That said, here's my response to your question: the Bible is adequately clear that Jesus is God, and is also adequately clear that the Holy Spirit is God. God is 'spirit', not 'matter' and as such is not limited in the same way that flesh and blood is limited. Jesus was physically born into a body of flesh, and therefore was necessarily unable to function with the same freedom that He has outside of the flesh. God the Father did not reveal to Jesus (when He was in the flesh) the timing for 'that day or hour'. Therefore He did not know. Philippians 2:8 states that Christ "humbled Himself". The immediate context is His crucifixion, but the principle is that as a human being, He simply did not have the same capabilities that God (spirit only) has, one of which is being omniscient.
Why doesn't Holy Spirit knows of the hour?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,502
243
63
#8
I

Philippians 2:5-8. Vs5, why doesn't Holy Spirit knows of the hour?
Since the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father there would be no reason for Him not to know. And yes, I understand why you ask this question because Matthew 24:36 states only the Father knows.

Now, if you want to use your type of reasoning what would you say about 1 Corinthians 8:6? "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him, AND ONE LORD, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."

So tell me fahad, where the verse says there is one Lord, Jesus Christ does this mean that God the Father is not the Lord? Yes or no? Finally, why did you not address all the other stuff I posted regarding Philippians 2:5-9? How about it fahad? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,651
1,904
113
#9
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(Php 2:6-8 KJV)

In His self humiliation the Son layed aside His prerogatives of Deity, and that's why at the time He didn't know.
As a non believer, you have bigger fish to fry, as for example how will your sin be atoned for?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,881
5,358
113
#10
Christians happily answer about Jesus, wh

Why doesn't Holy Spirit knows of the hour?
God has not revealed the answer to that question. Any answer I give you would be speculative.

Who is Jesus to you?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,736
1,791
113
#11
Do you get points for going to Muslim paradise for coming on a Christian website and trying to disprove a fundamental of the faith - the deity of Christ? I know Muslims have to earn their way to God. And sadly, that Allah, can pretty much take or reject whoever he wants, but particularly if those balance scales of good and evil are awry!

Christ is the hope of the world. He is our salvation. Because he was sinless, and voluntarily died on the cross, he redeemed or paid the ransom/price for us to be reconciled with God. That is in this life, and in the next. The Holy Spirit is Christ's presence on earth, within us, and he leads us to follow and obey God, and transforms or changes us into the image of Christ.

If Christ was only a perfect man, as Muslims think, then Jesus could not pay the ultimate price for us to be saved. A mere mortal cannot pay the price for sin, no matter how perfect he is. Although, of course, the Bible says in both the New and Old Testaments, that "there is no one righteous, no not one!" In Romans 3:10. Yet later on, in the same book, it is clear that Christ, is a man who is also God, who makes atonement for our sin.

"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 (For rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person perhaps someone might possibly dare to die.) 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, because we have now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from God’s wrath. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled, will we be saved by his life? 11 Not only this, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received this reconciliation." Romans 5:6-11

"What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:31-39

This is the God we serve. I've studied Islam in seminary. I also visited Muslim websites and got to know people, who literally posted a testimony every visit for me, and I was not impressed. Have also attended services at a mosque and was so grieved for the people there who were kind, but lost from God. It was all legalism and personal decisions. I don't know about you, but I am sinful, I NEED the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me in to all truth. I can't make it on my own without the full Trinity to help me. You too, can experience the joy of knowing Christ. Continuing in Romans, it is very simple.

"But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

You too, Fahad, can know the joy of a sure way to heaven, and relief from the burden of sin. Just believe that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead (no Judas did not take his place on the cross!) and you will be saved.

God saved me, and has kept me for 39 years. He wants to do the same for you. Just listen for his voice. God is not just some transcendent God high in the heavens. Jesus is also immanent. He came to earth and lived as a man, to die on the cross for our sins. The Holy Spirit lives in the hearts of believers. God is with us. That is what the Old Testament says, and it is echoed in the New Testament.

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel" Isa. 7:14. (Im- with; man - us; el - God. Hebrew.)

"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”)." Matt 1:21-23

There, spelled out clearly for you - Jesus is God. Now, what are you going to do about it? Continue to follow a religion of the lost, or confess Jesus as Lord and God? I pray God will show you the truth, and you will be saved. You certainly are not, right now.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,063
320
83
#12
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
Wow, this really shakes me up for I thought God was all knowing, but the Son does not know, but how can that be.

Oh, tell me it is not true, for now I will toss and turn on my bed over this, for I thought I was following a God that was all knowing, the greatest of all, but come to find out that God the Son does not know.

Oh why did you have to reveal this to me, and shake up my world to its very foundation, and left me shaking, and trembling with sweatiness, and anxiety.

The Bible says there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior, for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God.

No man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

Which the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

The Spirit in the man Christ Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for He cannot be separated.

The man Christ Jesus said to Philip, if you have seen Me, then you have seen the Father, for the words I speak are not My own, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

So Jesus is a visible image of the invisible God.

So Jesus is both God and man, and could speak from either viewpoint.

Which He claimed to be Lord and Master, and said before Abraham was I am, claiming to be God.

And He spoke as a man when He told Mary to go to the disciples, and tell them that I go to My Father, and your Father, and My God, and your God.

And when a man approached Him according to His humanity, and said, good Master, He spoke as a man and said, why call Me good, for there is only one good, and that is God, giving God the glory for Him doing good.

Had the man approached Jesus according to His deity, He would of said He is good, or not say why call Me good.

Since Jesus is both God and man He was speaking as a man when He said the Son does not know the time and hour of the second coming, but only the Father knows that time.

Which is why He said the Father is greater than Him, for God is greater than human.

Which the Bible says that the Son was made after the seed of David according to the flesh, and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

But Jesus is God for He is God manifest in flesh, and God said in the Old Testament that He would come in the future in flesh, and save the Jews from their sins.

But that throws some people off how Jesus can be God manifest in flesh when God is an omnipresent Spirit, for they do not understand it.

The Holy Spirit does know the hour of the time of the second coming for He is the Spirit of God.

It is the Son, the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, that does not know the time of the second coming.

But some people will clutch at straws to undermine Christianity, and pose questions without knowing what the Bible says.

Which the Bible says avoid foolish, and unlearned questions, for they gender to strife.

Which the Bible says that God could not overthrow the people in Canaan for they had much chariots, so an atheist jumped on it and said, see God is not all powerful.

But earlier in the Bible God said that He would not overthrow those in Canaan if the Jews feared the people of the land, for then they doubted God that He could do it, so God would not do it.

So 12 Jews were sent to spy out the land, and 10 came back with an evil report saying the people are great in number, and have many chariots, and feared, so God did not give them the land of Canaan that day, but 40 years later.

Which some people want to criticize the Bible without knowing all that it says.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,835
7,217
113
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Florida
#14
The Doctrine of Christianity teaches, God Is All-Mighty, All-Powerful, Eternal, perfect being. and obviously stuff like God cannot contradict itself and much more.
So let's read what Bible says about this.
Even though I have much more verses to present, I would rather rely on one verse to challenge the doctrine of Christianity, or I should say, Doctrine of Trinity given the fact that non-Trinitarians also exist. So
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
When Answering the question, please, please apply the same rule you explain for Jesus to the Holy Spirit.
Jesus does not know about the day or the hour because the Father chose to reserve that for Himself until the appointed time. The Father has authority over the Son, that's just the way that it is.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,355
3,063
113
#16
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
That was THEN. It is no longer applicable. So it should be "didn't know" not "doesn't know".

In any case, what doctrine are you trying to promote?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,398
771
113
#17
:)

There's only one God, His name is Jesus.

Jesus never said "i don't know the hour", He said "..the son doesn't know the hour.."
He is the first and the last, the beginning and the end - meaning all time is with Him, so He definitely knows the hour, He is the Father.

Jesus is God who came to demonstrate sonship. The son is a subordinate authority within the godhead and belongs to men for it is through this oneness that our salvation is achieved- we being in God and God in us. So Jesus was only demonstrating sonship.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,966
299
83
#18
Mathew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
So basically no one knows except father. Jesus, God The Son, doesn't know about it.
May I ask All the Christians here, why God The Son doesn't know about it?
That's actually a good question.. I should point out that only newer translations say "nor the son", but the KJV, Douay-Rheims, Young's literal translation, etc, omit that portion of the verse; "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." I believe the full Godhead knows or will know, but Jesus was simply saying that no man or even angels are privy to the exact day/hour. Its possible that as the "Son of Man", Jesus didn't know yet, but as the "Son of God" he would? It may also be that the exact hour/day were yet to be determined, which is why only the Father (Godhead) would know.

God is omnipotent, and also omniscient, but because of His omnipotence, His omniscience may not be set in stone. While the signs and times are determined, His work is ongoing, so because God is all-powerful, He is able to change or adjust what is or can be known. That's a brain teaser eh?
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
735
409
63
#19
Exactly, it was on a need to know basis.
I believe it was on a who to know basis like this,

I came not to judge the world Jn.12:47

vs this,

the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead 2Tim.4:1
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
682
429
63
#20
There are certain things only the father knows/knew. I don't know if now Yeshua's knowledge is perfect regarding what the father will do or if it literally is like a father son relationship where the son is fully submitted and obedient and will carry out when the time is at it's fullness. Not sure...it's actually kind of an interesting topic if you really think about it.

Mt 20:23 may have some relevancy in this instance.

This knowledge limitation was based on human flesh which is imperfect. Is it logical that perfection could be contained in something that is imperfect? I believe that Jesus overcame the "anomaly" that is sin by choosing to be a sacrifice unto that end (and the mystery of that sacrifice is just that for me personally)

There are plenty of things that don't make sense. Note: Mystery!


Good topic though... I get kind of frustrated/tired when someone makes a thread that doesn't believe in Christianity and then doesn't respond AT ALL to the responses given. It is a tad disconcerting. Almost like there might be nefarious intent. Hopefully not, I responded to another thread of someone that was searching and all they did was bring up previous example on why Paul was in error but when I responded they just repeated the same stuff. Almost like it's scripted...anyway, if you are truly searching I'm willing to search with you.

I have doubts myself but I know the Lord is bigger than my doubts. I've talked to people by chance in the Muslim faith and found we are aligned with many things (through some serious discussions that just came about in some unlikely places) but ultimately I'm seeking for the surety of salvation and faith not being sight factors into my doubts.

Are you here to search or just divide?