Is It Possible To Backslide
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Saul was not a born-again believer in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit. Christ had not died on the cross and shed His blood yet for man-kind.
Whenever we take Old Covenant ideas and happenings and try to bring them into the New Covenant - we water down the gospel of the grace of Christ and actually deny the Lord Himself and His work on the cross and resurrection.
We have New Covenant based on better promises and the Blood of Jesus speaks of better things.
Whenever we take Old Covenant ideas and happenings and try to bring them into the New Covenant - we water down the gospel of the grace of Christ and actually deny the Lord Himself and His work on the cross and resurrection.
We have New Covenant based on better promises and the Blood of Jesus speaks of better things.
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When I speak of law; it isn't about what I think I can do. But Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of the law will pass before it is fulfilled. So with every step that He took and every word that He spoke were the fulfillment of those laws and words of the prophets. One example of this I will share with you because what you say is very true. There is a law that reads; "The sacrifice of a lamb to redeem the foal of a donkey." Jesus rode the foal of the donkey into Jerusalem and gave His life. This is creation language. We do not have to know these things to be saved by the Blood of the Lamb. These thousands of years it was required to do in the works of tradition according to law and words of the prophets. But when Jesus came into our lives and fulfilled that law in our lives, that law was fulfilled. But the law remains for those who are not yet saved, because there is a need of personal conviction in the generations to come; so that they might ask, "What does this mean?"
Water baptism is a picture of an inward happening when we believe in Christ. It symbolizes our death with Christ on the cross. Being buried with Him in death when we go down into the water and then raising up with Him in the resurrection when He did. We come up out of the water.
If you haven't been baptized - do it and you will be blessed. It is a command because it will help to cement the truths of the Lord's death and resurrection and when He did those - you too are identified with Him. You died and was raised up to newness of life. You are a new creation in Christ when you believed.
Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:4-8 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Of course it's possible to backslide, it's possible to return to the world and leave God completely. We have freewill, and God does not force us into submission. However, whatever does not grow dies- whether physically or spiritually. Nothing alive can remain idle- a four year cannot remain a four year old physically for ten years. If a four year old quits growing, he/she dies. Same is so spiritually. The prodigal son represented someone in danger of dying spiritually. You need to come back before it's too late.
Its like this, whether physically or spiritually, life is in the blood. So let's say you sit on your foot and cut off blood supply, and your foot "falls asleep." When you move your foot, and blood rushes back, it feels like pins and needles, but you are not going to lose your foot, the tissue is still very much alive. But if you tightly wrap a rubber-band around your finger, after a long enough time it will turn blue, then gangrene, then fall away. If this happens, it can never again be part if the body- the tissue is dead.
In the same way, spiritually, the church is the body of Christ- through which His blood flows (the Lords Supper)(spiritually- the grape juice is just a representation). A prodigal son is like your foot falling asleep, and a severed and dead fingertip is someone who backslid so long that they can never return.
So we know how long it takes to deprive tissue of blood to cause dead tissue. But who's to say how long one has to be cut off from the church to die spiritually? God is to say. I know I went like ten years without going to church because of being kidnapped, held captive, and abused. But I never stopped praying and loving God. God does not expect us to do what we cannot do. A lot of people cannot physically make it to church, and God understands that. It is when they choose not to go that causes a problem- that's disobedience. Although we do obey God in physical ways, it is our spiritual that matters. Someone can have perfect attendance their whole life and be dead inside.
God looks at what's going on in the heart- where you cannot see, so be careful not to judge- only encourage.
Its like this, whether physically or spiritually, life is in the blood. So let's say you sit on your foot and cut off blood supply, and your foot "falls asleep." When you move your foot, and blood rushes back, it feels like pins and needles, but you are not going to lose your foot, the tissue is still very much alive. But if you tightly wrap a rubber-band around your finger, after a long enough time it will turn blue, then gangrene, then fall away. If this happens, it can never again be part if the body- the tissue is dead.
In the same way, spiritually, the church is the body of Christ- through which His blood flows (the Lords Supper)(spiritually- the grape juice is just a representation). A prodigal son is like your foot falling asleep, and a severed and dead fingertip is someone who backslid so long that they can never return.
So we know how long it takes to deprive tissue of blood to cause dead tissue. But who's to say how long one has to be cut off from the church to die spiritually? God is to say. I know I went like ten years without going to church because of being kidnapped, held captive, and abused. But I never stopped praying and loving God. God does not expect us to do what we cannot do. A lot of people cannot physically make it to church, and God understands that. It is when they choose not to go that causes a problem- that's disobedience. Although we do obey God in physical ways, it is our spiritual that matters. Someone can have perfect attendance their whole life and be dead inside.
God looks at what's going on in the heart- where you cannot see, so be careful not to judge- only encourage.
How can OT examples like Saul or David be used to try to prove or disprove that it is possible to backslide? Surely OT saints did believe and were also at times filled with the Holy Spirit, but things changed at Pentecost. Now the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. Before the cross and the resurrection God dealt with mankind in a different way than he did after the cross and resurrection: two different dispensations!
Brother, if we are to believe this we will have to advocate a changing God.
David and Saul knew Jesus. Both of them were sinners. The difference between the two is that one accepted the responsibility for what he did wrong the other one blamed Samuel and the people around him.
Saul was the chosen king until God told him that enough is enough and then Samuel said to him that if he listened, his kingdom would have been established forever. God didn't make a mistake by choosing Saul. Saul turned his back on God.
We were always saved by the blood of the lam/Lam. God does not change.
David and Saul knew Jesus. Both of them were sinners. The difference between the two is that one accepted the responsibility for what he did wrong the other one blamed Samuel and the people around him.
Saul was the chosen king until God told him that enough is enough and then Samuel said to him that if he listened, his kingdom would have been established forever. God didn't make a mistake by choosing Saul. Saul turned his back on God.
We were always saved by the blood of the lam/Lam. God does not change.
The particular method is really not the focus. You were baptized into Christ when you believed in Christ and received Him. Saying " in the name" is really just a way of saying you are doing it in Him,, on account of Him..etc - God who is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. All is well...
Now we need to be focused on Christ and what He has already done for us. I heard it said that in real estate 3 things are important - "location, location, location". For the Christian it is "awareness, awareness, awareness" of Christ and what He has done.
When we behold the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit to reflect outwardly who we really are now in the new inner man of the heart - created in righteousness and holiness. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
The real you that is the new creation in Christ will never be more righteous or holy than you are now because you are in Christ - joined as one spirit with Him.
There is however a working out of His life that is in us to reflect outwardly in our behavior. The renewing of the mind is where this happens and it is all by grace through faith in what Christ has done. The same way we received Christ - that is how we live and walk in Him.
Now we need to be focused on Christ and what He has already done for us. I heard it said that in real estate 3 things are important - "location, location, location". For the Christian it is "awareness, awareness, awareness" of Christ and what He has done.
When we behold the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit to reflect outwardly who we really are now in the new inner man of the heart - created in righteousness and holiness. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
The real you that is the new creation in Christ will never be more righteous or holy than you are now because you are in Christ - joined as one spirit with Him.
There is however a working out of His life that is in us to reflect outwardly in our behavior. The renewing of the mind is where this happens and it is all by grace through faith in what Christ has done. The same way we received Christ - that is how we live and walk in Him.
I agree that there is much to learn from the life of Saul and David however there is a big difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant which is based entirely on the work of Christ. God's character and nature is not changing but I can see where we could get that idea from.
God's character does not change but He does change His ways of dealing with man. In the Old Testament He dealt with man differently then He does now because of His Son. The cross changed many things.
God "after" speaking in many ways and portions in the Old Testament has in these last days now spoken to us through His Son.
Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Jesus is the radiance of God's glory or goodness and Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's true nature.
Whatever perception we have of the character of God from the Old Testament that does not line up with what Jesus showed - it will be inaccurate. Jesus said that "No one knows the Father - but the Son has revealed Him".
The Old Testament things are concealed and they are types and shadows of the real substance which is Christ Himself.
No worries brother - God's true nature which is demonstrated accurately through Christ does not change....
God's character does not change but He does change His ways of dealing with man. In the Old Testament He dealt with man differently then He does now because of His Son. The cross changed many things.
God "after" speaking in many ways and portions in the Old Testament has in these last days now spoken to us through His Son.
Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Jesus is the radiance of God's glory or goodness and Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's true nature.
Whatever perception we have of the character of God from the Old Testament that does not line up with what Jesus showed - it will be inaccurate. Jesus said that "No one knows the Father - but the Son has revealed Him".
The Old Testament things are concealed and they are types and shadows of the real substance which is Christ Himself.
No worries brother - God's true nature which is demonstrated accurately through Christ does not change....
What you said here is key, do you believe then that judgement for people in the OT is different than in the NT? If so we are advocating a changing God, which is impossible.
We have to understand that judgement is the same under OT and NT... then we will find the parallels and understand salvation a little bit better.
We have to understand that judgement is the same under OT and NT... then we will find the parallels and understand salvation a little bit better.