Is Jesus found in the O.T.?

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jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
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#1
Can you out of the Old Testament only prove Jesus is Messiah? When Jesus was on the Earth, as human, the people of tat time, only had the Old Testament, Suptuaget Scripture, and had to believe Jesus was the Messiah. Today we have the New Testament, but could you believe if you had only the Old Testament//? Prove how...

You just might find out the O.T. is still relevant....
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
There are so manty references to Him in the OT, howeer I will give you just one which refers to Him as the High Priest, as Joshua (Yehoshua, and old version of Yeshua.), His mission, His reward, and even a reference to the Apostles.

Zechariah ·. That later version of Joshua, Yeshua, has been transliterated as Jesus...……...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#3
kThat should be the third chapter of Zech.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#4
Jesus said unto the Jews: John 5:v.43-47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. (in the OT, evidently)

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
Mar 29, 2019
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#5
For Jews living in the day, they may well have known. They were very much expecting the messiah (in large because of Daniel's 70 sevens was about due and also because of the Roman oppression), and they would've know their OT well. So quite possibly, they should have known.

But a big part of the problem though, I think, is they were looking for the wrong messiah. The OT describes conflicting views on the messiah, so much that the Jews had determined there must be two. An all-conquering messiah, they called 'messiah ben David'; and the weak and sorrowful messiah, they called 'messiah ben Joseph', and they presumed the all-conquering one was the messiah to come in and save them from their enemies; and the lowly messiah they presumed to be talking about Israel themselves, because they had suffered so much.

But to answer your question, I think you couldn't do it without the NT, because that is where we have the explanation of how he fit the bill. The OT has all the prophecies of what the messiah would do, or suffer, but without the NT to make those points plain, a lot of them would go unnoticed. The gospels are a record of what Jesus did, but crucially it also ties that to the OT prophecies. Without that, many of the prophecies would not be obvious they were even prophecies. A lot of prophecies would have had a fulfillment in their day, but we now see a second, greater, fulfilment.
For example, (and I'm just going by memory, so the wording will be out)..
- God leading Israel out of Egypt as 'my only son, Israel' but now we know this is reference to Jesus returning from exile as a child. Unexpected with the OT alone.
- David's psalm 'you did not let your holy one see decay' - he was writing about himself! David was the anointed. David was the king, and God's holy one. And it applied to David at the time (he was terrified of Saul hunting him and thought he was about to die, but thankful God saved him from that) - so it had a fulfilment at the time, but a greater fulfilment in the Lord.
- 'a sign to you, the virgin (maiden) shall bear a son' - this would have been literally fulfilled in that time, but it would've been a maiden who then had relations with a man and had a child, which was proof for the people that God's word was going to come true (something about the result of impending war conflict, i think). But who would've known it had a greater fulfilment in Jesus conception and birth.
And there are many more.

And all this is why Jesus said to 'forgive them for they know not what they do' when he was crucified.
 
Mar 29, 2019
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#6
..and I find it fascinating that Jesus was both the son of David, and the (supposed) son of Joseph, matching the two messianic titles the Jews had come up with.
 
Mar 29, 2019
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#7
..and which, incidentally, ties in very well with the birth of Benjamin.
Rachel died giving birth to him, and she first named him ben-(something else), which meant 'son of my sorrow', but Jacob named him benjamin which meant 'son of my right hand'.
Again, Jesus fits both descriptions.
And of course Benjamin was born somewhere very close to where Jesus was born, if not the actual place. (Rachel's tomb is just near Bethlehem today).
 
Jul 8, 2019
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#8
In Genesis 32 Jacob wrestles with a man and afterwards says "I have seen God face to face". There is only one God, and only one man who fits this description and his name is Jesus (Yeshua) Christ. It's interesting that if you take away the New Testament, you can't understand this verse at all and it seems to contradict itself. Do you know how the Jews explain this? They say it was Esau's angel. There isn't really a proper explanation for that, they just say that it's because he met Esau earlier.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#9
Can you out of the Old Testament only prove Jesus is Messiah? When Jesus was on the Earth, as human, the people of tat time, only had the Old Testament, Suptuaget Scripture, and had to believe Jesus was the Messiah. Today we have the New Testament, but could you believe if you had only the Old Testament//? Prove how...
No, no one could, neither can , believe in the NAME of JESUS, or in His own person, as a Messiah by the OT only, never. That's why the Jews are still awaiting the messiah's manifestation and even today they don't believe in Jesus as their Messiah, right? He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (John 1:v.11)

By the way, now, in nearest future, God will sent them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie (believe in the false messiah, AN IMPOSTER): That they all might be damned who believed not the truth (believe not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall sent them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Thes.2)

You just might find out the O.T. is still relevant....
Yes, it is, but not by the conception you made in your topic. Are you a reader of the Bible or only of the Torah? Deut.29:v.29 - 29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#10
The OT gave the Jews all the principles of the Lord. If we check out those principles as they are given in the OT we can better understand the NT.

In the OT they were told that there is no salvation without blood. They were to sacrifice innocent blood for forgiveness of sin, for atonement. That atonement was made perfect through Christ as we read in Matthew 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

In the OT physical death was described as sleep or being with the fathers. After what Christ did for us, they were alive.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,686
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#11
On every page


Proverbs 30:4
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
Can you out of the Old Testament only prove Jesus is Messiah?
Who do you think wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone with the *finger of God?* Who do yo think spoke to Moses out of the burning bush? The list goes on and on.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#13
The first reference to the Lamb of God is in kkGenesis 22 (Ithink) where Abraha is about to sacrifice Isaac to God. Isaaac asked Abraham where is the Lamb for the Sacrifice, Abraham responded, "God will provide, Himself, a Lamb for the burnt offering."

God stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac at the last secondd and Abraham saw a RAM caught by it horns in a thicket. He then offered up the RAM, yet Abrahaqm said God would provide, Himself, a Lamb for the offering.........….I think that says it all and then a lot more. I did from the first reading of this a half century ago. God bless you.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#14
Who do you think wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone with the *finger of God?* Who do yo think spoke to Moses out of the burning bush? The list goes on and on
Acts 7:v.30-38 reveals who was him:

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord (actually an Archangel) in a flame of fire in a bush.

31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob*. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold. (Compare with

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

34 I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.

35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

* I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.*

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel (actually an Archangel) shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#15
"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal
life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me... "
said Jesus in John 5:39
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#16
Again God will send His angel (by the way the same Archangel) in accord His promise as was prophesied by Daniel:

Daniel 12:v.1-3

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


1 Thessalonians 4:v.14-18

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#17
Isaiah 60:v.3&8

- 3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.


- 8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
 
Mar 2, 2019
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#18
Revelation 12:v.14

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place (into the Kingdom of God), where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. - from the face of the Red Deagon with his 7 heads, and 10 horns, and his DEVILISH TAIL -
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,111
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#19
Where do we start??lol

Is this an exam question. How many hours have we got to go through the Bible?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#20
Who do you think wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone with the *finger of God?* Who do yo think spoke to Moses out of the burning bush? The list goes on and on.
Amen. A few scriptures referring to Christ:

John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Acts 7:37,38 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

1 Cor. 10:4
"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."