IS Jesus , God the Father or NOT?

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Nick1939

Senior Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
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#1
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#2
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...

Hello brother,

Let us do some grade three thinking... :)

Can a man beget himself?
Is a son equal to a Father?
Is the father first and then the Son?

Your sound person will get you places.

I was wre you are.
You need revelation of one detail and you're FLYING.

Keep it up.
I am willing to help if you will let me.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#3
Jesus is not the father; he is the visible form of the invisible father.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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#4
Jesus is not the Father, but Jesus and the Father are One. I think this is hard to understand, but according to the Athanasian Creed, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father, and the Son is not the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Son. However, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. They are not each other, but are all One God.

Jesus reveals the Father, the Spirit reveals the Son. Therefore, anyone who has seen the Son has seen the Father. Anyone who has seen the Spirit has seen the Son and the Father through the Son.

I know, all of this is a hodgepodge of paradoxes and unknowables. However, that is why this is one of the mysteries of the faith.
 

reject-tech

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2013
787
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#5
I guess John 14 goes into a good bit of detail.

Jesus is in the Father, because the Father is omnipresent, and contains everything.
The Father is in Jesus, because He is YHWH of hosts.
Jesus was the first complete fulfillment of "host."
The OT heroes were hosts, but came short of complete.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Male represents God, Female represents mankind.
In-dweller and container.

"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Like a created mankind came out of an omnipresent God

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Like Jesus became one with the Father. (The man and his wife don't merge into a single body, but they beget a representation of that merger in their children)

"...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Like our desire is to God, and He rules over us.

"Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee"

To reflect the same way the world brings thorns and thistles and grieves God since the fall.

So He is not the Father proper, but rather one (the first) physical representation of Him.

As far as the name goes, the question in proverbs 30 is a double asking of the question of a shared name.
"God will save", represented literally in "Jesus" and poetically in "YHWH", which is the sound of your next unprovoked breath, which also saves you. But those are fairly simple explanations of a very deep name meaning.

Jesus says to worship and pray to (ask) the Father in His name, so I rarely "address Jesus", and when I do it is in comment, not usually in request.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#6
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
Hi Nick1939
I would say that JESUS is GOD,JESUS is the word of GOD manifested in bodily form talking to men, face to face representing GODs word.

viewing the king james version(kjv)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

JESUS
(the word of GOD)came to earth earth in flesh for mans sake, to destroy the work of the devil.

viewing the king james version(kjv)


Hebrews 10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In the fullness of time GOD sent his word.

viewing the king james version(kjv)



1 John 5:9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son



The first Adam disobeyed GODs voice and listened to the devil

The second Adam (so to speak)(JESUS) obeyed GODs voice.

But in showing honour to our father they are one but the father is the father,JESUS is the son of GOD.


 
Last edited:
Nov 16, 2013
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#7
Hi Nick1939
I would say that JESUS is GOD,JESUS is the word of GOD manifested in bodily form talking to men, face to face representing GODs word.

viewing the king james version(kjv)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

JESUS
(the word of GOD)came to earth earth in flesh for mans sake, to destroy the work of the devil.

viewing the king james version(kjv)


Hebrews 10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In the fullness of time GOD sent his word.

viewing the king james version(kjv)



1 John 5:9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son
The first Adam disobeyed GODs voice and listened to the devil
The second Adam (so to speak)(JESUS) obeyed GODs voice.
But in showing honour to our father they are one but the father is the father,JESUS is the son of GOD.
***
2 Pet.1
[2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you (believers) through
the knowledge of GOD (1) and knowledge of Jesus our LORD (2)

Acts.7
[55] Stephen being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven,
and he saw the glory {splendour} of GOD
and Jesus standing on the right hand of GOD,
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened,
and the Son of man (1) standing on the right hand of GOD. (2)

I have read that the Church killed our Fathers
and called them Gnostics because they said that we need Knowledge and not faith only.
The Church wanted to teach faith only.
Faith only makes people gullible and forces unintelligent belief.

Gnosis = knowledge.
All of the Prophets including Moses, Jesus and the Apostles spoke about knowledge.
Maybe your gathering believe in faith only.
The killing of GOD's people does not go unnoticed.
GOD takes vengeance for killing the innocent ones who publicize his message.
 

Nick1939

Senior Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
3
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#8
Hi Seed- time -harvest...

you answer to my question, is not very helpful, you show some time he is God
and some time he is jesus, as some others

misunderstand, my question .
 
May 15, 2013
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#9
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
John 3:12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

1 Corinthians 6:16
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”
 

Nick1939

Senior Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
3
0
#10
please answer yes or not. if yes, give verses why you believe so , and if not, give verses why you believed that.thank you...
 

Nick1939

Senior Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
3
0
#11
Hi thomistColin, you say Jesus is not God, but then you say Jesus and the Father are one, and then, you say it is a mystery which o the 3 answers is the true; when Jesus said, you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you FREE .please be clear and specific.because in 2 Cor 11:3 there is a simplicity in Christ. as olso in Det 27:8 the command of God was to wright the law very PLAINLY.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#12
please answer yes or not. if yes, give verses why you believe so , and if not, give verses why you believed that.thank you...
If you would have had read these verses, it would have answered your question. Our soul is one with the flesh and so that means our soul is a spirit that is house in our flesh. Our souls can separate from our physical bodies as Jesus has separated from it on the cross. Spirits can separate and infuse it self to anything. Spirits are limitless, but we have limits. In order for one person to be infuse with another, is through a sexual act. but they are not actually infuse together like spirits can do. Like the man that was possessed with a legion of demons in him. The demons weren't feeling cramp being in one soul, but if thirty people fit into one compact car, will be uncomfortable.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
2,703
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#13
Hi Nick, this thread reminds me of God's questions to Job and he couldn't answer either. My answer is I don't know the answer. All over CC is arguing what scripture really means. Nobody knows everything, even Solomon didn't know everything and he was the wisest man ever. I guess it's that way so trust can come in. I don't know everything, but trust and believe, and follow Christ.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#14
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
Jesus is not God the Father and the Father is Jesus God

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for myFather is greater than I.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and yourFather; and to my God, and your God.


 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
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#15
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
Jesus is not God the Father

Joh 10

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.


What doe the one mean, t
he bible gives the answer


[h=3]John 17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.



You will notice that the believeres are one with God and Jesus also . Does that makes us God the Father certainly not .

Take for example there is one true church but different members all are part of the church but sparate
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
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#16
No splitting hair , yes or not.answer with scriptures ,will do, thank you.

you see I am trying to understand Prov 30:4 what is His name , and what his son"s name, if thou canst tell;
because I hesitate to call jesus God the father , as many do; help if you can...

God bless...
Ignore the similar previous post editing time ran out

Jesus is not God the Father

John 10:29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 14:28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for myFather is greater than I.

John 8:42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me

John 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and yourFather; and to my God, and your God.

 

Maynard

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2013
597
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#17
God is Trinity

Mystery of the Trinity...

11_06_19_Trinity_Augustine_Pinturicchio.jpg
The great Doctor of the Church St. Augustine of Hippo spent over 30 years working on his treatise De Trinitate [about the Holy Trinity], endeavoring to conceive an intelligible explanation for the mystery of the Trinity.


He was walking by the seashore one day contemplating and trying to understand the mystery of the Holy Trinity when he saw a small boy running back and forth from the water to a spot on the seashore. The boy was using a sea shell to carry the water from the ocean and place it into a small hole in the sand.

The Bishop of Hippo approached him and asked, “My boy, what are doing?”

“I am trying to bring all the sea into this hole,” the boy replied with a sweet smile.

“But that is impossible, my dear child, the hole cannot contain all that water” said Augustine.

The boy paused in his work, stood up, looked into the eyes of the Saint, and replied, “It is no more impossible than what you are trying to do – comprehend the immensity of the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your small intelligence.”

The Saint was absorbed by such a keen response from that child, and turned his eyes from him for a short while. When he glanced down to ask him something else, the boy had vanished.

Some say that it was an Angel sent by God to teach Augustine a lesson on pride in learning. Others affirm it was the Christ Child Himself who appeared to the Saint to remind him of the limits of human understanding before the great mysteries of our Faith.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
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#18
Jesus is God but not the Father.
On the one hand he received worship which is due to God alone and on the other hand He spoke to and of the Father...He was not schizoid.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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#19
I’m not going to split hairs I’m just going to try to say who Christ is:

When Jesus was with God in glory as the Word of God before He came in the flesh, He was the Chosen One among the Godhead (the Three) to be the liaison between God and man during the time before Christ. If any of the men that the Lord appeared to face to face, like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua etc… were resurrected during the time of Christ they would have recognized who He was… He would have looked exactly the same.

Christ in the flesh during His ministry was not only the Son of God but He was entire image of the Godhead (the Three) in the flesh. He looked exactly the same in appearance as the Lord who Adam saw when He opened his eyes for the first time, the Lord who sat and ate with Abraham by the terebinth trees of Mamre, the One who wrestled with Jacob, the Lord who appeared to Moses, Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel on the mountain, “and they saw the God of Israel”, the “Commander of the Army of the LORD” that appeared before Joshua, and the Angel of the Lord who appeared many times during the time of Israel. This is why Christ said with absolute certainty and in a very literal way, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
83
#20
Jesus is God but not the Father.
On the one hand he received worship which is due to God alone and on the other hand He spoke to and of the Father...He was not schizoid.
Let me clarify that first line...
''Jesus is God but is​ not the Father.''