IS Jesus , God the Father or NOT?

Yahshua · Nov 28, 2013

Christ is not THE Father.

But Christ came in the name and full authority of THE Father (as an eldest Son often did for his father who was king), so if the Son speaks a word it is of so high authority that it is counted as word from THE Father himself...and considering the fact that the Son is of the same character and nature as the Father ("chip off the old block", so to say), if one speaks to the Son one is pretty much speaking to the Father because His spirit is in him.

Now Christ is ALSO the 2nd Adam...and so for anyone who's born again (in him) they are of his seed (like anyone born in Adam is of Adam's seed), so the Son is indeed *YOUR* "father" in this respect.

I think the best way to think of the Father and the Son's relationship to you, is to think of your own grandfather and father. Your father is your father, but he's also son of his father...who's also your father because you also came from him through your father, his son.

...and Bob's your uncle.

4enlightment · Nov 28, 2013

Matthew 15:9They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

This verse is saying that we only understand the law of nature, but that isn't how the spiritual realm works. They are two totally different realms, and that is what God is trying to separate us from our earthly teachings. In order to be born again, you must understand the spiritual nature and how it works, because how can a person love God and doesn't really know Him; and God know that a person that love someone, will put all their effort in knowing them. And if a person goes around talking about Him to others, but doesn't know Him; God will never acknowledge them either.

Romans 12:2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 6:19I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.

Matthew 19:26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 3:34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

1 Timothy 6:20Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,

Hosea 6:6For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Isaiah 56:10Israel’s watchmen are blind, they all lack knowledge; they are all mute dogs, they cannot bark; they lie around and dream, they love to sleep.

Jeremiah 3:15Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding.

ThomistColin · Nov 28, 2013

Nick1939 said:

I never said Jesus isn't God. I said Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is God the Son.

Nick1939 · Nov 28, 2013

HI Karraster,..
I admire your honesty, but there is a lot of people out there , that have being deceived and don't want to admit it.so the question to them still remain is he , or not GOD the Father., and others call it A MYSTERY, please All of sincere Christians, consider these verses , Heb 13:8-9 that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, note he is not some time a son and some time Father,asfor those who call it mystery, please consider these verses,rom 16:25 ephesians 1:9 and 3:4-5 surprisingly the mystery which was kept secret, is now made manifest unto us by his spirit, what mystery are they referring to? please consider Paul's words in col 2:2 note, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the MYSTERY , of God and the Father, and of CHRIST...

God bless..

Bowman · Nov 28, 2013

Nick1939 said:

The concept of the Biblical Trinity can be visualized by the Trinity Shield.

There are twelve possible deity combinations as thus.

The Father is God(2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
God is the Father (2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
The Son is God(Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
God is the Son (Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
The Spirit is God(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
God is the Spirit(Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
The Father is not the Son(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
The Son is not the Father(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
The Son is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
The Spirit is not the Son (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
The Spirit is not the Father(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)
The Father is not the Spirit(Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)

just-me · Nov 28, 2013

ThomistColin said:

I'm curious about this verse. Can anyone explain the meaning that will make sense?

1 Corinthians 15:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Son=5207=remote or figuratively child, foal, son
God=2316=supreme divinity, magistrate

This next verse is quoted just to define "Jesus our Lord," in which I have no question about. It's the above verse that seems to throw a kink into the Trinity belief analogy, such as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Jesus=2424=Jehoshua [Hebrew]
Lord=2962=supreme in authority, controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title) God, Lord, Sir

Eva1218 · Nov 28, 2013

JESUS is not the FATHER. JESUS is the SON, WORD.

Blessings!!!!!!!

RuthHannah · Nov 28, 2013

[SUP]
Jesus is not God the Father but God the Son

Revelation 3

12 [/SUP]Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Acts 7
[SUP]55 [/SUP]But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Nick1939 · Nov 28, 2013

To Sincere Christians -
Your explanation of Jesus is Both the Father and the Son is absurd. Not even in fiction is it found. Who can begot himself? HEB. 1:5 who is; I have begotten thee, who is I, and who is thee? you can not have it both ways. And as for IS 9:6 read it in the Hebrew translation, which reads "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called WONDERFUL Counselor, of the Mighty GOD of the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace", the English translation omits the preposition (OF) and cannot explain John 14:28 why Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." Please note : Jesus has GOD over him. God has no one over him or even equal to him - John 20:17 to my Father and your Father, To My God and your God. 1st Cor. 11; 3 - "But I would have you know the head of every man is Christ; and the Head of the woman is man; and the head of Christ is God." Col 3:1 Where Christ sat on the right hand of God, and again sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemy's they footstool (Can Christ sit on his own right side?). In Matthew 22:41 - 46 Jesus is asking the same question, as I did; also consider 1st Cor 15:27 - 28; Who is exempt? from being under Jesus feet, and why Jesus at the end will be subject to the Father and give the Kingdom to God, if he is the FATHER? God Bless....

RuthHannah · Nov 28, 2013

Nick1939 said:

To Sincere Christians -
Your explanation of Jesus is Both the Father and the Son is absurd. Not even in fiction is it found. Who can begot himself? HEB. 1:5 who is; I have begotten thee, who is I, and who is thee? you can not have it both ways. And as for IS 9:6 read it in the Hebrew translation, which reads "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called WONDERFUL Counselor, of the Mighty GOD of the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace", the English translation omits the preposition (OF) and cannot explain John 14:28 why Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." Please note : Jesus has GOD over him. God has no one over him or even equal to him - John 20:17 to my Father and your Father, To My God and your God. 1st Cor. 11; 3 - "But I would have you know the head of every man is Christ; and the Head of the woman is man; and the head of Christ is God." Col 3:1 Where Christ sat on the right hand of God, and again sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemy's they footstool (Can Christ sit on his own right side?). In Matthew 22:41 - 46 Jesus is asking the same question, as I did; also consider 1st Cor 15:27 - 28; Who is exempt? from being under Jesus feet, and why Jesus at the end will be subject to the Father and give the Kingdom to God, if he is the FATHER? God Bless....

Is the Holy Spirit God the Father ?

Isdaniel · Nov 28, 2013

Nick1939 said:

Jesus is the word of the Lord

Psalm 33

King James Version (KJV)

33 Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Praise the Lord with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

JaumeJ · Nov 28, 2013

If you would, read the 9th chapter of Isaiah. He is prophesying the birth of a Child, and He will be called:

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Yes, Jesus, Yeshua, is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, though as Jesus, He was seen as a man, like all flesh, so He would be deemed by the creation worthy to judge all flesh. Now, it was already evident before He came to let us all know of His free gift that God is worthy of judging all flesh, but because our Maker is humble, though almighty, He did this, just for me and you and all who will come to Him, amen.

God's ways are mysterious, His ways are not our ways, thus in the instance of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, it is our turn to have faith. Leave a few of the mysteries to be revealed in His time.

p_rehbein · Nov 28, 2013

GOD THE FATHER
GOD THE SON
GOD THE HOLY GHOST

What part of that do you not understand?

just-me · Nov 28, 2013

God is Spirit, and God's Spirit dwelt in the fullest extent in Christ Jesus, the Son of the Father. Nevertheless, God is a Spirit, so God is in Christ, and they are a unit of one.

John 4:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I am still waiting for an answer on post #26 if anyone has information.

Heavenly Father, are united as one unit. Listen to how Jesus describes Himself.

John 14:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Exodus 3:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 14:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one.

Mark 12:28-29 (CJB)
28. One of the Torah-teachers (scribes) came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua answered them well, he asked him, "Which is the most important mitzvah (principles to be put into action) of them all?"
29. Yeshua answered, "The most important is, `Sh'ma Yisra'el, ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI *echad [Hear, O Isra'el, the LORD our God, the LORD is *one],

Echad=is unity, so to paraphrase we can say that Jesus was exhorting:
“Listen intelligently to the ruling God of Jacob. My Lord is God. He is *unity.”

John 14:8-11 (KJV)
[SUP]8[/SUP] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[SUP]9[/SUP] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[SUP]10[/SUP] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[SUP]11[/SUP] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

just-me · Nov 28, 2013

RuthHannah said:

Yes they are the same according to scripture.

John 4:24a (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit:

Isdaniel · Nov 28, 2013

RuthHannah said:

[SUP]2 Corinthians 3

17 [/SUP]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

just-me · Nov 28, 2013

One more scripture that might help us to understand this unit of one. Jesus is the creator.

Colossians 1:12-20 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Isdaniel · Nov 28, 2013

RuthHannah said:

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

CRC · Nov 28, 2013

Is God Always Superior to Jesus?
JESUS never claimed to be God. Everything he said about himself indicates that he did not consider himself equal to God in any way—not in power, not in knowledge, not in age.
In every period of his existence, whether in heaven or on earth, his speech and conduct reflect subordination to God. God is always the superior, Jesus the lesser one who was created by God.
Jesus Distinguished From God
TIME and again, Jesus showed that he was a creature separate from God and that he, Jesus, had a God above him, a God whom he worshiped, a God whom he called “Father.” In prayer to God, that is, the Father, Jesus said, “You, the only true God.” (John 17:3) At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (RS, Catholic edition) At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God.
The apostle Paul had no reservations about speaking of Jesus and God as distinctly separate: “For us there is one God, the Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he mentions “the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels.” (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible) Just as Paul speaks of Jesus and the angels as being distinct from one another in heaven, so too are Jesus and God.
Jesus’ words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?
Jesus further showed that he was a separate being from God by saying: “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was saying that no one is as good as God is, not even Jesus himself. God is good in a way that separates him from Jesus.

Isdaniel · Nov 28, 2013

CRC said:

[h=3]Philippians 2 [/h]King James Version (KJV)

2 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

IS Jesus , God the Father or NOT?

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