Is Jesus of Nazareth the prophesied Messiah from the O.T.?

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GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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48
#1
Apparently, He isn't.

did you even read what I posted?

Messianic prophesies - micah 5: 2 - Zech 14: 9-16:


1. He will be human, born as a child
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
4. His kingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
5. He will NEVER DIE
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ.

Now look at the bolded parts of the characteristics of king messiah, and tell me when Jesus did that while he was on earth?

I will give you an example.

This messiah was said to never die, yet Jesus died. What is wrong with that picture. Why did jesus die, if the prophesies said he would never die?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
Apparently, He isn't.
ok. You had to make a slam on someones character by making a new thread?

wow girl. you have serious issues.

Now. can you show myself and everyone in the thread when jesus fulfilled the prophesies I have in bold?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,441
1,839
113
#3
I don't approve Guess who, that was cold.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#4
ok. You had to make a slam on someones character by making a new thread?

wow girl. you have serious issues.

Now. can you show myself and everyone in the thread when jesus fulfilled the prophesies I have in bold?
I didn't make a slam on your character, wow boy.

I believe Jesus of Nazareth ruled us by serving us. I believe He is a true king by laying His life for us. I believe the new age has dawn with His resurrection. And now, we, christians are living while still in this earth in the kingdom of God. The Church is the anticipation of the Kingdom of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
I didn't make a slam on your character, wow boy.

I believe Jesus of Nazareth ruled us by serving us. I believe He is a true king by laying His life for us. I believe the new age has dawn with His resurrection. And now, we, christians are living while still in this earth in the kingdom of God. The Church is the anticipation of the Kingdom of God.
So then prove it to us

show us when and how jesus fulfilled the highlighted portions of the prophesies concerning king messiah?

What your doing is showing your character, You make accusations, but you can not back them up.

You opened the can of worms, you did not have to open another thread. so back your words, and answer the question. or prove what I have been saying all along.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#6
I testify before the heavens and earth Yahshua is the Messiah spoken of in the OT.

If one studies the 7 Feast days of Yahweh it becomes clear who the Messiah is, what He has done and will do, and what He stands for.

Leviticus 23:1-2, "And Yahweh spoke to Mosheh, saying: Speak to the children of Israyl, and say to them; Concerning the Feasts of Yahweh, which you shall proclaim to be Holy Convocations; these are My Feasts."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#7
OT Messanic prophecy:

Isayah 53:1-, "Who has believed our report? To whom is the arm ofYahweh revealed? For He will grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He has no form nor comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by Yahweh, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#8
The easiest way to see if Jesus/Yahshua is the real Messiah is to study this:

Daniyl 9:25-26, "Know therefore, and understand that from the going forth ofthe commandment to restore and to rebuild Yerusalem, fto the Messiah the Prince, will be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; the street will be rebuilt again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, without a successor; and the people of the prince that will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end will be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#9
The easiest way to see if Jesus/Yahshua is the real Messiah is to study this:

Daniyl 9:25-26, "Know therefore, and understand that from the going forth ofthe commandment to restore and to rebuild Yerusalem, fto the Messiah the Prince, will be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; the street will be rebuilt again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, without a successor; and the people of the prince that will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end will be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
That is why the pharisees:

Mattithyah 3:7, "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them; O brood of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

Pronounce a curse on any who number the 70 weeks of Daniyl's prophecy, because if one can understand Daniyl's prophecy they would then know who the real Messiah is.

Quote:

Some questions have been raised about the source of the Rabbinic Curse on Daniel 9 as quoted in our article The 70-Week Prophecy, and by Professor Veith in his video Just Another Man. Although we have not been able to locate the exact source used in his presentation, we do offer here sources that show the existence of such a curse:

Quote 1
A Sage said: "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people." Sanhedrin, 97b.

Louis Newman and Samuel Spitz, The Talmudic anthology: tales and teachings of the rabbis (Behrman House, 1945): 277. ISBN 0874413036, 9780874413038

Read this quote online

Quote 2
What is meant by 'but at the end it shall speak [we-yafeah] and not lie?' — R. Samuel b. Nahmani said in the name of R. Jonathan: Blasted be18 the bones of those who calculate the end.19 For they would say, since the predetermined time has arrived, and yet he has not come, he will never come. But [even so], wait for him, as it is written, Though he tarry, wait for him. Should you say, We look forward [to his coming] but He does not: therefore Scripture saith, And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you.20 But since we look forward to it, and He does likewise, what delays [his coming]? — The Attribute of Justice delays it.21 But since the Attribute of Justice delays it, why do we await it? — To be rewarded [for hoping], as it is written, blessed are all they that wait for him.

Footnotes to the above:

18 [H] The verse is rendered, 'he will blast him who calculated the end.'
19 I.e., Messiah’s advent.
20 Isa. XXX, 18.
21 I.e., because we are not yet worthy of it.
22 Ibid.

"Sanhedrin 97b," Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin. Read this quote online

Quote 3
Rabbis after the time of Christ have pronounced a curse on anyone who would attempt to calculate the dates of this chapter. - Talmud Sanhedrin 97b, Soncino ed., p. 659. Read this quote online

Quote 4
6. Furthermore, this passage deals primarily with Jesus — not with some “future Fuehrer,” to use Hal Lindsey’s term for the Antichrist. In fact, the prophecy points so unmistakably to the time of the MESSIAH’S COMING, and so directly foretold HIS DEATH, that in later centuries Jewish rabbis who did not accept Jesus DISCOURAGED its study and finally pronounced a CURSE on all who attempt to compute the time elements! 31

Footnote to the above:

31 See Talmud Sanhedrin 97b, Soncino edition, p. 659.

NOTE: All the capitalizations in the above quote are original with the author, and are reproduced for the sake of accuracy.

Howard A. Peth, 7 Mysteries Solved: 7 Issues that Touch the Heart of Mankind Second edition, Revised (California: Hart Books, 2002).

Quote 5
HAS MESSIAH COME?
by Avram Yehoshua
A most amazing thing occurs in the ninth chapter of Daniel: we’re told when Messiah would come. But instead of explaining it to us, our Rabbis curse anyone wanting to find it out: ‘Rabbi Samuel b. Nachmani said in the name (of) Rabbi Jonathan: ‘Blasted be the bones of those who calculate the end.’ (1) Some of our Rabbis, in a further attempt to keep us from Daniel, even state that Daniel was wrong. Alfred Edersheim, a Talmudic scholar who would come to know Messiah said, ‘later Rabbinism, which, naturally enough, could not find its way through the Messianic prophecies of the book, declared that even Daniel was mistaken’ (2) (emphasis added).

Footnotes to the above:

1 Sanford R. Howard, L’Chayim: Finding The Light of Shalom (Thorsby, AL: Sabbath House, Inc., 1999), p. 209. Sanhedrin 97b, vol. 2, p. 659, Soncino Press. Editorial footnote #6 says, ‘i.e., Messiah’s advent.’
2 Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus The Messiah (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 2000), p. 957. Bereshith Rabba 98 (a midrash or commentary on Genesis). Edersheim lived from 1825 to 1889 C.E.

Read this quote online

Quote 6

Rab said: All the predestined dates [for redemption] have passed, and the matter [now] depends only on repentance and good deeds.

"Sanhedrin 97b," Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin. Read this quote online.

Jesus and the The Talmud
In Judaism, the Talmud is called the "most holy." It is the sourcebook for Jews.

On the eve of Passover, Jesus was hanged. For 40 days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned, because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover. Ulla retored; Do you suppose has was one for whom a defense could be amde? Was he not a mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, "Neither shall thou spare nor shall thou conceal him?" With Jesus, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government. (Sanhedrin 43a)

The scholars know that when you calculate the time of the Messiah, using Daniel 9 as the prophetic template, you come to one Messiah: Jesus Christ. But they rejected Him. The stone that was rejected turned out to be the capstone, the corner stone, the foundation. No other foundation can we have than that which is Christ Jesus, the Bible says. Israel rejected this Messiah that their own scriptures point to, and say, "Blasted be the ones if you try and calculate why he didn't come." This is Jewish Talmudic theology regarding the absence of the timely Messiah.

Rabbinic Curse
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#10
So then prove it to us

show us when and how jesus fulfilled the highlighted portions of the prophesies concerning king messiah?

What your doing is showing your character, You make accusations, but you can not back them up.

You opened the can of worms, you did not have to open another thread. so back your words, and answer the question. or prove what I have been saying all along.
Well, it is you who believe that Jesus of Nazareth isn't the Messiah, not me. You need to give explanations, not me.

I already answer all your questions:

Jesus of Nazareth defeated the enemy of the world (not only the enemy of Israel) on the cross. That is a victory over sin, evil and death.
Jesus Christ died but death didn't keep Him in the cave: He is risen!
Jesus of Nazareth said that the kingdom of God is at hand meaning that He comes on behalf of God, that He Himself is God.

The prophesies you showed me do not refer to the second coming of Christ, but to the coming of the Messiah.

So, according to you and the Jews, Christ wasn't the Messiah since He didn't fulfill God's promises to Israel.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#11
Acts 3:18, “But those things which Yahweh foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that the Messiah must suffer, He has fulfilled this.”

Mattithyah 1:21-23, “And she will give birth to a Son and you will call His Name YAHSHUA; (Yahweh is Salvation); for Yahweh will save His people from their sins. Now all this was done to fulfill what Yahweh had spoken through the prophet (Isayah 7:14), saying: Behold a virgin will conceive, and bear a Son, and will bring forth the sign IMMANUYAH-which means that Yahweh Of Hosts Is With Us.

Matt 2:15, “And remained there until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what Yahweh had spoken by the prophet (Hosheyah 11:1) saying: from Egypt I have called My Son.”

Matt 2:17, “Then what was spoken by Yeremayh (Jeremiah 31:15) the prophet was fulfilled; a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were no more.”

Matt 2:23, “And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets (Zecharyah 3:8 & 6:12); He will be called a Nazarene.”

Matt 4:14-16, “To fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (9:1-2), saying; the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Yardan, in Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light; they who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them the Light has shined.”

Matt 8:17, “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (53:5), saying: He was bruised for our iniquities, and by His stripes we are healed.”

Matt 12:17-20, “That it would be fulfilled what was spoken through Isayah (42:1-3) the prophet, saying: Behold! My Servant Whom I have chosen! My Elect One in Whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He will not cry, nor lift up His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; until He brings forth judgment in truth.”

Matt 13:14-15, “And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah (6:9-10), which says: you will hear without ceasing, but you will not understand. You will see without ceasing, but you will not perceive . Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, or they will see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed.”

Matt 13:35, “ That it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 78:2) saying: I will open My mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings-which have been kept secret since the foundation of the world.”

Matt 21:4-5, “All this was done to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet (Zecharyah 9:9), saying: rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout for joy, O daughter of Yerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you. He is just and lowly, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

Matt 26:53-56, “Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, Who at once would give Me more than twelve legions of malakim? But then, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that all this must be so? At that same time, Yahshua said to the multitudes; have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you teaching in the sacred precincts, and you did not arrest Me. But all this has been done, so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples abandoned Him, and fled.”

Matt 27:9-10, “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zecharyah (11:12-13) the prophet, saying: so they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver, that considerable price that I was valued by them whom they of the children of Israyl had agreed to pay, and used them for the Potter’s Field, as Yahweh had appointed Me.”

Matt 27:35, “They nailed Him to a stake, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 22:18): they divide My garments among them, and for My tallit they cast lots.”

Mark 14:49, 15:28, Luke 1:20, 4:21, 21:22, 21:32, 24:44, Yach (Jn) 12:38-41), 13:18, 15:25, 17:12, 18:9, 18:32, 19:24, 19:24, 19:36
All these are amazing prophecies that our Messiah fulfilled.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
Well, it is you who believe that Jesus of Nazareth isn't the Messiah, not me. You need to give explanations, not me.

I already answer all your questions:

Jesus of Nazareth defeated the enemy of the world (not only the enemy of Israel) on the cross. That is a victory over sin, evil and death.
Jesus Christ died but death didn't keep Him in the cave: He is risen!
Jesus of Nazareth said that the kingdom of God is at hand meaning that He comes on behalf of God, that He Himself is God.

The prophesies you showed me do not refer to the second coming of Christ, but to the coming of the Messiah.

So, according to you and the Jews, Christ wasn't the Messiah since He didn't fulfill God's promises to Israel.
Girl, you opened a can of worms, You put it out there for all to see. So you have the obligation to back your words. and answer the question.

1. Why did messiah die, when the messiah was told would never die?
2. When did messiah rule Isreal
3. When have all the nations come to Isreal to worship the messiah?
4. while on earth. why was the messiah a servant? when we are told the messiah will be SERVED my all men?

either answer or close this thread. for it is wrong what you did.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#13
Girl, you opened a can of worms, You put it out there for all to see. So you have the obligation to back your words. and answer the question.

1. Why did messiah die, when the messiah was told would never die?
Daniyl 9:25-26, "Know therefore, and understand that from the going forth ofthe commandment to restore and to rebuild Yerusalem, fto the Messiah the Prince, will be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; the street will be rebuilt again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, without a successor; and the people of the prince that will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end will be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
OT Messanic prophecy:

Isayah 53:1-, "Who has believed our report? To whom is the arm ofYahweh revealed? For He will grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He has no form nor comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by Yahweh, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

That is a prophesy of the suffering servant. or servant of God. she did not post the whole quote. she just posted part of it.


What do we see about this person?

1. He will be human.
2. He will have no kingdom, no one will look up to him, they will look down on him.
3. He is not said to be God (although he is not said not to be God)
4. He takes our punsihment for our sin.
5. He dies a horrible death
6. He will rise from the dead
7. His death will justify many.
8. He is given no name. so we do not know who he will be.

notice the differences between the two prophesies?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
Daniyl 9:25-26, "Know therefore, and understand that from the going forth ofthe commandment to restore and to rebuild Yerusalem, fto the Messiah the Prince, will be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; the street will be rebuilt again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after the sixty-two weeksMessiah will be cut off, without a successor; and the people of the prince that will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end will be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
My friend, You are walking into an argument you do not understand. That is not the point of the argument.

So please back off. Your not responding to the origional question asked in the other thread. thus your arguments are useless and not responding to what was being argued in the first place.

I have never denied Jesus is messiah.

The argument is has he fulfilled ALL prophesies concerning his reign on earth. or has he only fulfilled part of them.

 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#16
2. When did messiah rule Isreal
If one understands the 7 Feasts then one would know this is future.

Daniyl 2:34-35, "You watched while a stone, which was cut out without hands, struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them into pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time, and became like the chaffon the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no trace of them could be found; and the stone that struck the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#17
You said, "1. Why did messiah die, when the messiah was told would never die?" and I posted a Scripture showing your statement is wrong.

Now I do understand that you 2 may have a debate that is deeper than what is written here, however any person that makes false claims against Yahshua, I will speak against. PERIOD.

I mean no disrespect, truth is number one.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,031
539
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Texas
#18
Since the OT only presents one Messiah and since Peter by inspiration says that Jesus is that Messiah, this should settle the matter whether one understands how all of the specifics of the Messianic prohecies are represented or not. "Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Acts 2:36.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#19
1. Why did messiah die, when the messiah was told would never die?

The Messiah was expected to defeat and destroy the enemies of Israel. And that's what Christ did on the cross.

2. When did messiah rule Isreal
Messiah rules Israel even now. He is God blessed for ever. For there is no Jew nor Gentile, no man no woman in His true Israel (the Church), but only Christians.

3. When have all the nations come to Isreal to worship the messiah?

Even the animals recognized Jesus to be the Messiah. Only his very chosen people failed to see it. The three pagans that read the stars recognized Jesus to be the Messiah, Herod, instead, was afraid of the true King.

4. while on earth. why was the messiah a servant? when we are told the messiah will be SERVED my all men?


The Messiah served us and we serve Him. He loves us and we love Him.

either answer or close this thread. for it is wrong what you did.
I want to see who else believe that Jesus of Nazareth didn't come to destroy the enemies and deliver the Jews (and all of us) from the exile of death.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
370
0
#20
The argument is has he fulfilled ALL prophesies concerning his reign on earth. or has he only fulfilled part of them.
Messiah has not yet fulfilled ALL the prophecies, He will return like a lion.

"And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand ofHim Who sat upon the throne."