IS MAN TOTALLY DEPRAVED?

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GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
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#1
REPROBATE – adokimos – unapproved, rejected, castaway, worthless, reprobate (Strong’s)

Men ordained to damnation (Webster’s)

Depravity – corrupt, perverse, marked by corruption or evil
Corrupt – morally degenerate, perverted, decline in moral standards
Perverse – turned away from what is right and good or correct and proper; wrong headed

Totally depraved is how God sees US, not how we see ourselves. The doctrine of total depravity says that man is as bad off as he can be, which may not always be manifested in conduct but is made manifest in every other way (opinions, ideology, desires, etc)

Unregenerate man is the natural man, the unbeliever. He oversteps the bound of decency God has set for man. In his natural state he is:
Full of iniquity – that which is altogether wrong
Wicked – the outward expression of his evil nature
Evil (in man) – that which opposes the goodness and holiness of God
Ungodly – lacks respect and reverence for God 2 Tim 3: 2-5
Lawless – is in open contempt of divine law
Disobedient – unwillingness to be led or guided in the ways of truth
Iniquitous – altogether wrong
In Error – gone astray from the bou
Deceitful - Jer 17:9
Hard Matt 19:8
Inclined to wickedness Is 32:6
Unstable in all his ways James 1:18

They distort the word to their own destruction 2 Peter 3;16

Reprobate (those who are ordained to damnation) stay in their natural state and perish
Spiritually dead – the natural man cannot receive the things of God because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14) when Adam died spiritually for that first sin, all mankind died with him, and is imputed with Adam’s sin. Unless a man is regenerated in his spirit (made alive), he will perish.
Under Condemnation – Adam’s sin is imputed to all men, making all men born under condemnation for that sin. Romans 5: 12, 19 (judgement arose from ONE transgression resulting in condemnation Rom 5: 16)

the things that proceed out of the hearts of the unregenerate man and defile him: (Mark 7: 20-23)
evil thoughts Adulteries sensuality
fornications deeds of coveting envy
thefts wickedness slander
murders deceit pride
FOOLISHNESS

Rom 3:10 there is none who is righteous, no not one
Is 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all else and is desperately sick
Ecc 9:3 the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil
Rom 7: 18 in the flesh dwells no good thing
2 Tim 3:8 some men are reprobate concerning the truth
 
Mar 14, 2011
68,558
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#2
Yes

This does not mean they can not repent, in fact God said they already know they are judged rightly because of their sin, and that their is a God. Spirual truths that even the unbeliever can know. Now all god has to do is draw them to himself by whatever means he sees will work to bring people to himself. As he has been doing since Adam and Eve first fell.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#4
oooooo

number one hit single on the tulip parade :eek:
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#5
oooooo

number one hit single on the tulip parade :eek:
That's right!!

SPURGEON QUOTE
You cannot vanquish a Calvinist

.You may think you can, but you cannot. The stones of the great doctrines so fit into each other that the more pressure there is applied to remove them, the more strenuously do they adhere. And you may mark that you cannot receive one of these doctrines without believing all.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,686
1,371
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#6
Yes totally as in no faith. Not little none.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#7
adokimos – unapproved, rejected, castaway, worthless, reprobate (Strong’s)
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,862
2,735
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#8
Do we really need another Calvinists thread?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,862
2,735
113
#10
Threads are for you to choose from, .....don't like it...........move on
Well that was Christlike. We must have a million threads on this topic. It ends in a mess every time. I'm surprised they even let it be discussed here anymore. Nothing you can say that hasn't already been said. So I don't understand why its brought up again and again. Futile argument. But there seems to be a lack of common sense around here so by all means continue. Enjoy the bloodbath.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#11
The entire 'free will' theory is based on man being ABLE to receive the gospel of salvation.
The entire 'sovereign grace' doctrine is based on the sovereignty of God.

Bible says the Holy Spirit quickens man to belief............quicken.......to make alive that which was dead, bring to life.
1 Peter 1:3 says that God has CAUSED us to be born again.

The apostles asked who can be saved? Jesus said....with MAN this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with GOD all things are possible.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
490
97
28
#12
The entire 'free will' theory is based on man being ABLE to receive the gospel of salvation. The entire 'sovereign grace' doctrine is based on the sovereignty of God.
Unfortunately, you have a perverted view of what "sovereignty" is in the Bible. According to Calvinists, it is hard determinism.

Give me one Scripture that says God determines all things? There isn't one and your view is perverse.

God is righteous. A righteous God cannot condemn people who are not able-to-respond. That's what the word responsible means. That is like telling someone in a wheelchair that if you don't get up and run this 100 meter dash in 10 seconds i'm putting you in jail. Calvinism is retarded, illogical and Scripture refutes it everywhere.

Literally thousands of verses make no sense under the Calvinist paradigm. I pity you, and all Calvinists, for having a horrible view of God.

What I am not saying in this post is that you don't love God or are not saved. I think many Calvinists are saved and love the Lord.

Unfortunately, they got hood-winked by Satan into a perverse view of who God really is.

Scripture does not support you. Now commence running to your proof-texts that don't say what you think they do.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,768
2,526
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#13
The entire 'free will' theory is based on man being ABLE to receive the gospel of salvation.
The entire 'sovereign grace' doctrine is based on the sovereignty of God.

Bible says the Holy Spirit quickens man to belief............quicken.......to make alive that which was dead, bring to life.
1 Peter 1:3 says that God has CAUSED us to be born again.

The apostles asked who can be saved? Jesus said....with MAN this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with GOD all things are possible.
People here aren't going to like that because the true Gospel is foreign to their ears.

They chose themselves into heaven. God saw they'd choose him out of their own free will and love for him. Why? Since they knew God doesn't want robots, they did it out of love, and they knew these things while they were spiritually dead in sins! And never mind that Scripture says they cannot do this, that they're unable -- doesn't matter, ditch those verses and claim "whosoever will" because it neutralizes those truths. So, the end result is that since God saw they'd choose him he rewarded their efforts, I mean gave them a gift.

Yep, with all their errors it is no longer of grace, it is earned. Look at what they did out of their free will love! It's nothing but a crock of nonsense.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,526
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#14
Unfortunately, you have a perverted view of what "sovereignty" is in the Bible. According to Calvinists, it is hard determinism.

Give me one Scripture that says God determines all things? There isn't one and your view is perverse.

God is righteous. A righteous God cannot condemn people who are not able-to-respond. That's what the word responsible means. That is like telling someone in a wheelchair that if you don't get up and run this 100 meter dash in 10 seconds i'm putting you in jail. Calvinism is retarded, illogical and Scripture refutes it everywhere.

Literally thousands of verses make no sense under the Calvinist paradigm. I pity you, and all Calvinists, for having a horrible view of God.

What I am not saying in this post is that you don't love God or are not saved. I think many Calvinists are saved and love the Lord.

Unfortunately, they got hood-winked by Satan into a perverse view of who God really is.

Scripture does not support you. Now commence running to your proof-texts that don't say what you think they do.
That's what I like to read, for God's kingdom is true love, and God is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.

If God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choose in the matter then God's kingdom is not true love, for they have no choice but to accept the truth seeing no other alternative.

That means their faith is not real, their confessing Christ is not real, their repenting of their sins is not real, their hope is not real, their love is not real, for it did not come from them but from God.

I was thinking about that how what they believe goes against a multitude of scriptures.

The Bible plainly states that God wants everyone to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved, and the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation, and Jesus lights every person born in this world, which means everybody has the chance to see the light of Jesus and be saved.

Why do they ignore that.

The truth to believe in Calvinism is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is attributing something evil to God when He is good, which you cannot say God condemns people that have no input in the situation.

The truth is if God chose who would be saved without their choice, He would of never created the earth, but created them to be with Him and cut out the earth, for the earth serves no purpose in that situation, for whether He created them to be with Him, or put them on earth, the result is the same for they have no participation in their salvation.

The Bible says that all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

And there is none that does good, no, not one.

And if you offend in the least of the law you offend in all.

And counts the nations as nothing, and less than nothing, to illustrate the point of how God is so great compared to us.

And God is no respecter of persons, but everyone in every nation that works righteousness is accepted with Him.

And there is no difference between the Jew and Gentile.

And said if you think you are something when you are nothing then you deceive yourself.

So God said everybody is in the same boat, on the same level, the same in the eyes of God with no one different from the other, but a sinner in the world.

So could these people please explain what criteria, and measure, is God choosing these people to be saved, and others cannot be saved, and they all have no choice in the matter.

Is it because heaven can only hold so many people, even though God is an omnipresent Spirit.

Is it because they have blue, and green eyes.

Is it because they are left handed.

What is the reason God would chose some, and not others, without their choice, when all people are the same in the eyes of God.

They need to explain that so we can see how they are so different that they got chosen, because I do not see it.

But that is true many scriptures do not make sense when viewed by Calvinism, which is far too many to think it is true.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,480
2,433
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#15
I believe man is bad off in such a way that without the quickening of the Spirit (Jn 6:63), the applied conviction of sin (Jn 16:8) and power of the Gospel (Rom 1:16) he will langor in His sin. Luther said it quite clearly...

" I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. In the same way He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church He daily and richly forgives all my sins and the sins of all believers. On the Last Day He will raise me and all the dead, and give eternal life to me and all believers in Christ. " Luther Small Catechism
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,573
19,319
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#16
There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not!
 
Sep 3, 2018
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#17
I am not Calvinist, Arminian, Catholic or Protestant and I'm not depraved either. I am God the Father's creation and so are you.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
30,702
8,790
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#18
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove
from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ
liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by
the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:20
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,154
2,243
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#19
1PETER 1:16.
Because it is written, Be you Holy; for I Am Holy.

that is, those whom The Father has elected to give The Son...
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
490
97
28
#20
1PETER 1:16.
Because it is written, Be you Holy; for I Am Holy. that is, those whom The Father has elected to give The Son...
The big question in this whole debate is how does God choose?

Calvinism falsely claim that it is before the foundation of the world. No Scripture to support that except a twisting of Eph 1: 4.

What does the Bible really say about how God chooses?

Acts 10: 34-35, "Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

That word "accepted"; that's being chosen. Was that done before the foundation of the world? Not according to Peter's statement.

So we see, from Scripture itself, that God chooses a person based on that persons heart response towards Him.

Acts 13: 22, "And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, ‘I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

Men choose, of their own free will, to either respond to or resist the Holy Spirit.

That's how God can be just in judging them. Calvinism is detestable.