IS MARY THE WOMAN IN REVELATION CHAPTER 12?

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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#81
The woman represents Israel. The Child is Christ who Satan tried to kill at his birth
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#82
In Revelation 12:14 we read of a time, times, and half a time. There are only two other areas with like descriptions in Gods Word, which appear in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7.
In Daniel 7:25 we see the mouth for the beast, which also appears in Revelation 13:5 , wearing out the saints for a time, times and dividing of time.

The woman in Revelation 12 is therefore the saints prior to the next installment of the spirit, which is described as a new born male being caught up to God.
And just like there are only three areas in Gods Word describing 3.5 times, there are also only three areas in Gods Word where being caught up to heaven appear. These are in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 we see an individual who after being caught up to heaven, later relates his experience to Paul on earth.
Likewise, after the man child is caught up to God in heaven, the devil then goes off to make war with the remnant survivors of her seed/the man child (Revelation 12:17). And as these two areas in which individuals being caught up to heaven indicate their being spiritually caught up, while they remain on earth; so too I believe what is often referred to as the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 a spiritual event, and the same event as that in Revelation 12:5, where these individuals remain on earth.

This being caught up to God I believe has something to do with the blessing bestowed on the remnant surviving saints on day 1335 in Daniel 12:12 following the beasts mouth 1,260 days in which he scatters the power of the holy people/the saints.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#83
Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
113
#85
In Revelation 12:14 we read of a time, times, and half a time. There are only two other areas with like descriptions in Gods Word, which appear in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7.
In Daniel 7:25 we see the mouth for the beast, which also appears in Revelation 13:5 , wearing out the saints for a time, times and dividing of time.

The woman in Revelation 12 is therefore the saints prior to the next installment of the spirit, which is described as a new born male being caught up to God.
And just like there are only three areas in Gods Word describing 3.5 times, there are also only three areas in Gods Word where being caught up to heaven appear. These are in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 we see an individual who after being caught up to heaven, later relates his experience to Paul on earth.
Likewise, after the man child is caught up to God in heaven, the devil then goes off to make war with the remnant survivors of her seed/the man child (Revelation 12:17). And as these two areas in which individuals being caught up to heaven indicate their being spiritually caught up, while they remain on earth; so too I believe what is often referred to as the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 a spiritual event, and the same event as that in Revelation 12:5, where these individuals remain on earth.

This being caught up to God I believe has something to do with the blessing bestowed on the remnant surviving saints on day 1335 in Daniel 12:12 following the beasts mouth 1,260 days in which he scatters the power of the holy people/the saints.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

So who is man child, Jesus?
 
Aug 8, 2018
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#86
RE: John's prophetic vision while exiled on Patmos:
Last September, the heavens displayed an interesting configuration. Not astrology, astronomy.



Jupiter, which usually proceeds smoothly across the heavens, moved back and forth in the constellation Virgo for 9 months
between November 2016 and September 2017. This alignment only happens about every 7000 years, based on astronomical models.



This idea is perhaps too much for some to resolve as a 'sign in the heavens' from John's end-times vision on Patmos.
I present it as an interesting possible 'sign in the heavens' of the times we're living in. Further on in Revelation 12,
it speaks of 'war in the heavens' from which 'the accuser of the brethren' is cast down to earth. Woe, Woe.

I think 'the woman' can't be the church, because she is pregnant.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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#87
So who is man child, Jesus?
The man child are the saints following the beasts reign, who are caught up spiritually to Christ on day 1,335.
Micah 5:2-3 shows the Lord giving up His days on earth (His crucifixion), until the woman which travails brings forth (the man child), at which time the Lord commences to reign (Revelation 12:10).
After bringing forth, the man child goes about as did Christ with His disciples, who did not work for man, but were filled with the Holy Spirit, and had power, and did many miracles. (Micah 5:4 & 7-8).

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.
8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver
.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
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#88
The man child are the saints following the beasts reign, who are caught up spiritually to Christ on day 1,335.
Micah 5:2-3 shows the Lord giving up His days on earth (His crucifixion), until the woman which travails brings forth (the man child), at which time the Lord commences to reign (Revelation 12:10).
After bringing forth, the man child goes about as did Christ with His disciples, who did not work for man, but were filled with the Holy Spirit, and had power, and did many miracles. (Micah 5:4 & 7-8).

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.


Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.
8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver
.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
So the man child is not Jesus, but a saint that born after the beast reign

The first beast or the second beast.

Who is the woman
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#89
So the man child is not Jesus, but a saint that born after the beast reign

The first beast or the second beast.

Who is the woman
Plural; all the saints are the man child.
Read my post #84 that answers your questions regarding the woman, the man child, and the beasts mouth.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,371
113
#90
The woman represents Israel. The Child is Christ who Satan tried to kill at his birth
And Satan did have Jesus killed, while in opposition the Male Child is caught up to God and His throne unharmed. As I have made clear, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child. The woman giving birth to a male child, the child being caught up to God's throne and Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth, are all future events. These are apart of the "what must take place later" part of what John was told to write. The problem is, that we have too many people who will not look past the popular knee jerk reaction of the male child being Jesus. They just continue to go with the flow.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,371
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#91
2. Question No 3. Brother ahwatukee believe rev 12;5 a man child is the 144000 jews that believe in Jesus, If that true, why that verse say man child. They are part of the church, and church is bride/woman not man child.
Hello Jackson123,

You could ask the same question regarding "Legion." Why were all of those demons in one man referred to by one name? It is a collective name representing all of the demons that had entered into the man. For when Jesus asked him his name he said "Legion, for we are many." Based on the fact that there were two thousand pigs and they all ran down into the water and drowned, that would mean that there was at least one demon per pig, amounting to at least 2000 demons.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,371
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#92
Brother ahwatukee, you quote rev 2

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

And he that ....................unto the end

What is the end in this verse mean? After second coming or after 1000 year ?
Since the above is from the letter to Thyatira, it is a promise to each individual believer who "hold fast to what you have until I come," overcoming and continuing in the Lord's work until the end, which could be the end of the individuals life or until the Lord appears and gathers His church. It has nothing to do with the second coming or the 1000 years, but when the Lord comes to gather His church.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,371
113
#93
Brother ahwatukee

I have question.

1. When the man child rule with rod of iron, in the past or future?
The man child along with, the church and the great tribulation saints, will rule with Christ during His thousand year reign.

2. To my knowledge Jesus is groom, the church is bride
This is true, Jesus is the bridegroom and the church is His bride

Who ever believe in Jesus is part of the church, so 144000 Israel that believe in Jesus is bride.
No, because there appears to be different groups or dispensations. Once the Lord appears and the dead in Christ rise first followed by the living being changed and caught up, that will end the church period. The other groups who are not apart of the church, but are another group are as follows:

The nation Israel (unbelieving)

The Male Child/144,000 (Israelites who believe Jesus is their Messiah)

The great tribulation saints (Gentiles from every nation, tribe, people and language)

If the groups above were apart of the church, then they would be resurrected and caught up when the Lord appears to gather His church, but instead they will be one the earth during the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign.

Rev 12:5 say man child. If a church or 144000 Israel that believe in Jesus consider bride, why man child, not woman child.?
For one, women were never chosen as Rabbi's or teachers under the law. For example, the Sanhedrin (70) were all men. And two, they are not women because scripture says their not by calling them "Male Child" and because regarding them, scripture says, "these are those who did not defile themselves with women, which would make the 144,000 all males, ergo, male child.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
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#94
No, because there appears to be different groups or dispensations. Once the Lord appears and the dead in Christ rise first followed by the living being changed and caught up, that will end the church period. The other groups who are not apart of the church, but are another group are as follows:
Its all one dispensation of God who is not limited to time restraints.

The picture in Revelation 12 is the chaste virgin bride the church in respect to a unknown number signified by 144,000. The Sun and moon under her feet indicates its the end of time according to the context in chapter 11:12-15.

Chaste virgin signify the new creation neither male not female. Paul as a surrogate mother espoused Timothy as a chaste virgin.

There will not all of a sudden be millions of Christians disappearing only to return a literal thousand years later in the same unchanged body of death.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
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#95
For one, women were never chosen as Rabbi's or teachers under the law. For example, the Sanhedrin (70) were all men. And two, they are not women because scripture says their not by calling them "Male Child" and because regarding them, scripture says, "these are those who did not defile themselves with women, which would make the 144,000 all males, ergo, male child.
The bride of Christ is not what she will be when she receives the new incorruptible body in the new heavens and earth. There will be no Sun and mon as temporal time keeper They in effect will be under the feet of his bride as in no more subject to time restraints.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we "shall be": but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Sons of God speaks of our new bodies not having the ability to multiply. Just as the angels

The bride of Christ according to the signified language of Revelation is the new creature, the new heavenly Jerusalem (Zion) as the mother of us all. Not defiled with woman simply means not having other gods called the strange woman before our husband Christ as those who keep the first commandment.

It has nothing to do with people not having sexual intercourse with one another. That's how the Catholic all male priesthood got its beginning turning things upside down.

For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isaiah 62:5

2 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV) 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

The Amil , no literal thousand year reign according to the signified language of the book of Revelation works the best for reconciling the end time events.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
113
#96
Plural; all the saints are the man child.
Read my post #84 that answers your questions regarding the woman, the man child, and the beasts mouth.
So the man child is saints , the woman is saints? Am I correct?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
113
#97
Hello Jackson123,

You could ask the same question regarding "Legion." Why were all of those demons in one man referred to by one name? It is a collective name representing all of the demons that had entered into the man. For when Jesus asked him his name he said "Legion, for we are many." Based on the fact that there were two thousand pigs and they all ran down into the water and drowned, that would mean that there was at least one demon per pig, amounting to at least 2000 demons.
The church is also have milions member but we call under one name a church. That is not my question. The church also call a bride and a bride is woman, Jesus is a groom a groom is a man.

In other word, a group of believer is a bride, women

144000 jews believer is a group of believer, must be bride, woman,

Man child is not fit for 144000 jews believer,

So I believe man child is not refer for 144000 jews believer.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
113
#98
Since the above is from the letter to Thyatira, it is a promise to each individual believer who "hold fast to what you have until I come," overcoming and continuing in the Lord's work until the end, which could be the end of the individuals life or until the Lord appears and gathers His church. It has nothing to do with the second coming or the 1000 years, but when the Lord comes to gather His church.
Thanks I agree.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,820
1,195
113
#99
The man child along with, the church and the great tribulation saints, will rule with Christ during His thousand year reign.



This is true, Jesus is the bridegroom and the church is His bride



No, because there appears to be different groups or dispensations. Once the Lord appears and the dead in Christ rise first followed by the living being changed and caught up, that will end the church period. The other groups who are not apart of the church, but are another group are as follows:

The nation Israel (unbelieving)

The Male Child/144,000 (Israelites who believe Jesus is their Messiah)

The great tribulation saints (Gentiles from every nation, tribe, people and language)

If the groups above were apart of the church, then they would be resurrected and caught up when the Lord appears to gather His church, but instead they will be one the earth during the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign.



For one, women were never chosen as Rabbi's or teachers under the law. For example, the Sanhedrin (70) were all men. And two, they are not women because scripture says their not by calling them "Male Child" and because regarding them, scripture says, "these are those who did not defile themselves with women, which would make the 144,000 all males, ergo, male child.
The 12 apostle were man's, the apostle No 13, Paul was a man, but bible call It a bride.

Jesus is groom, a man, If Israel a man, what happen in the wedding day, Jesus married a man?

Jesus not gay.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
2,371
113
The church is also have milions member but we call under one name a church. That is not my question. The church also call a bride and a bride is woman, Jesus is a groom a groom is a man.

In other word, a group of believer is a bride, women

144000 jews believer is a group of believer, must be bride, woman,

Man child is not fit for 144000 jews believer,

So I believe man child is not refer for 144000 jews believer.
It's ok, you are free to believe what you want. I was revealing a deeper truth of God's word to you, which you can believe it or not believe.

May the Lord bless you and open your eyes to these truths.