Is Matthew 24 the rapture ?

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#1
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#2
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-30 Below, is the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ,that takes place immediately after the tribulation.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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#3
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
The disciple ask “ Where are they taken Lord? Combining the accounts of Matthew and Luke, the lord told them that they were taken to the dead body.

Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

This is not the rapture.
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
487
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#4
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.

Makes me think of this verse.


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The Holy Bible: King James Version. (1995). (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version., 2 Th 2:8). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, In
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,909
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#5
Makes me think of this verse.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (1995). (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version., 2 Th 2:8). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, In
Yes... as long as the reader of verse 8 understands that v.8a ['and then shall that Wicked be revealed'] and v.8b ['whom the Lord shall consume... destroy...'] are [events] 7 yrs apart ;) , and not happening at the same point in time.
 

Corban

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2020
1,062
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#6
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
From Matthew 24:32 the Lord does two things. (i) He addresses "SERVANTS", and (ii) He starts with a parable. According to His statements in Chapter 13, the parables are for the Church only (13:11). So, this portion of scripture is directed at the Church. This is further confirmed by verse 44 where He says "YE". The Lord's discourse is because of three questions in 24:3 by His disciples. So, the word "YE" means "YE DISCIPLES". But there is an even stronger confirmation in verse 42. Not only does the Lord Jesus use "YE", but He says "YOUR LORD". The text MUST be directed at the Church - the DISCIPLES. The Nations are indifferent to Jesus, and the Jews hated and rejected Him, so much so that in 21:43 the Kingdom is taken from them and in 23:38 God withdraws from anything to do with the Temple. So all indicators are that the Lord is talking about the Church. Here is the text:

37 "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."


From verse 37 to 39 our Lord makes it clear. Noah's flood was the last universal judgment. The WHOLE earth has never been judged at once since. Nations, peoples and individuals have been judged - like Sodom and Israel, but the whole world at one time - not since Adam. The our Lord points to the MORAL condition of men. Like the days of Noah. Then our Lord addresses the key issue - The Lord's delay and unexpected arrival. In Noah's time judgment came suddenly and TOOK men to their deaths. The Greek word is "airoo". It means to snatch away. It is used to depict what happened to our sins when Jesus went to His death on the cross. They were VIOLENTLY removed. Verse 40 starts with "THEN". That means, "at and about that time".

  1. "At and about that time" is because Noah went into the Ark 7 days before it started to rain. So what happens next in verse 40 is not exactly at the same time, but very near.
  2. "Two" is the number of Witness. This is a further indicator that the Church is meant. It is even more decisive when we add the ten dead virgins to the two living and get 12 - the number of God's People.
  3. "Taken" in the Greek is a DIFFERENT word to verse 39. It is "PARALAMBANO", and it means; "to take as a well-known companion". When Joseph took Mary to Egypt to save Jesus' life, he TOOK (as an intimate companion) his wife Mary.
  4. "Your Lord" indicates that the "taking as an intimate companion" is done by the Lord "arriving". The Greek word rendered "cometh" in verse 44 is "erchomai" which strictly speaking, means "ARRIVES"
  5. "The House" must be the Church. The Lord addresses the "TWO" as "YE DISCIPLES". Two is number of Witness. He calls Himself "YOUR Lord" showing that they had chosen Him as Lord. He calls them "SERVANTS". Each one alone might not be decisive, but all together prove that the House is the Church.
  6. "Thief". If the House is the Church, why does the Lord take the role of "thief"? Because a thief comes silently and TAKES what is VALUABLE. What is valuable to the Lord? OVERCOMING CHRISTIANS! (see below).
  7. "Cometh". The Greek word, as is said above, is "erchomai". Jesus is returning to earth. His starting point is the Father's throne "above the highest heaven". On this journey our Lord Jesus passes the third heaven, the stratosphere (where there are no clouds) and passes into the troposphere where there are clouds - and stops. He "ARRIVES" in the clouds. How do we know this? If He traveled all the way to the surface of the earth, the ones who were TAKEN would cause an absurdity. If Jesus sat down next to you now, you could not, and would not, be TAKEN ANYWHERE. So the "ARRIVAL" of Jesus is somewhere above the earth. And we know from 1st Thessalonians 4 that it is the clouds of the troposphere.
This all adds up to this; Our Lord Jesus leaves heaven to return to earth. On the way He is crowned and given His own throne. Then He arrives in the clouds and pauses. SOME Christians are "TAKEN as intimate companions" and SOME are LEFT to face the Great Tribulation. The Church is broken up. But immediately the objection comes; WHY IS ONE LEFT while the others is TAKEN???

The answer is very simple, but very unpopular. From the moment the Church was announced in Matthew 16, there have been major problems with it. The first one is Peter speaking for Satan in Matthew 16:23. The Lord Jesus gave a string of parables that show proplems in among those Servants, Virgins and Disciples when He comes. He says that riches and the flesh will stop Christians from entering the Kingdom. Disunity, the flesh and pride plagued the Corinthians. The Law plagued the Galatians. John had to wite because Gnosticism crept into the Church. And finally, in the last Book of the Word of God, Apocalypse (Revelation), FIVE of SEVEN Churches are found apostate. These PROBLEMS did not happen to political parties. Nor did they happen to clubs and fraternities. THEY HAPPENED AMONG CHRISTIANS!

That is, there are good Christians and bad (2nd Tim.2:20-21). Every one of you know BELIEVERS who are lukewarm, fleshly and downright sinners. You might even be honest enough to say that you YOURSELF have problems. That is, Christians have problems. And the Lord, in His wisdom has SET REWARDS for those who deny themselves and follow Him. In THREE SCRIPTURES, all in context of the Lord's COMING, is the promise made that because of BEHAVIOR - NOT FAITH, certain CHRISTIANS will be TAKEN as intimate companions of the Lord - and that IMPLIES that the rest will be LEFT.
  1. In Philippians 3:14 Paul says that the "UPWARD CALL" (lit. Gk.) is a PRIZE. The context is the same a 1st Thessalonian 4 - RESURRECTION and RAPTURE. Paul must "PRESS" for it - implying great effort.
  2. In Luke 21:36 one must be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to escape the things that will happen on earth and "STAND" before the Son of man (in the clouds - because that is where he will be). Luke 21:36 does not say that the WORTHY are KEPT. It says that they ESCAPE what happens on the whole earth
  3. In Revelation 3:10 Christ promises those that "kept the word of His patience" that He will KEEP them from the HOUR of trial that comes on THE WHOLE EARTH. These "Overcomers" are NOT KEPT IN the trial. The are KEPT (i) FROM the trial, and (ii) FROM the HOUR of trial. If the trial encompasses the whole earth, the "FROM" the trial must be away from the earth, and "FROM the HOUR" means that they are NOT PRESENT DURING THE TIME IT TAKES

Matthew 24:37 to 44 is about CHRISTIAN. Those TAKEN are taken as friends and ESCAPE. They are VALUABLE. From this separation of witnesses the HOUSE id broken up - the Church. Those lEFT are left for the hour of judgment on the whole earth just like Noah's flood.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,909
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#7
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
Yes, those "taken" are "taken away in judgment," and those "left" are "left" to enter and populate the kingdom [/earthly MK age], just as in Noah's day (compare this passage in Matthew 24 with both Dan2:35 and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILL/FILLED the [/whole] earth")


[and note that the text says, "they knew not UNTIL"... but it was not Noah who "knew not"... he had heeded God's word and prepared the ark beforehand, Heb11:7]
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
5,327
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#8
From Matthew 24:32 the Lord does two things. (i) He addresses "SERVANTS", and (ii) He starts with a parable. According to His statements in Chapter 13, the parables are for the Church only (13:11). So, this portion of scripture is directed at the Church. This is further confirmed by verse 44 where He says "YE". The Lord's discourse is because of three questions in 24:3 by His disciples. So, the word "YE" means "YE DISCIPLES". But there is an even stronger confirmation in verse 42. Not only does the Lord Jesus use "YE", but He says "YOUR LORD". The text MUST be directed at the Church - the DISCIPLES. The Nations are indifferent to Jesus, and the Jews hated and rejected Him, so much so that in 21:43 the Kingdom is taken from them and in 23:38 God withdraws from anything to do with the Temple. So all indicators are that the Lord is talking about the Church. Here is the text:

37 "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."


From verse 37 to 39 our Lord makes it clear. Noah's flood was the last universal judgment. The WHOLE earth has never been judged at once since. Nations, peoples and individuals have been judged - like Sodom and Israel, but the whole world at one time - not since Adam. The our Lord points to the MORAL condition of men. Like the days of Noah. Then our Lord addresses the key issue - The Lord's delay and unexpected arrival. In Noah's time judgment came suddenly and TOOK men to their deaths. The Greek word is "airoo". It means to snatch away. It is used to depict what happened to our sins when Jesus went to His death on the cross. They were VIOLENTLY removed. Verse 40 starts with "THEN". That means, "at and about that time".

  1. "At and about that time" is because Noah went into the Ark 7 days before it started to rain. So what happens next in verse 40 is not exactly at the same time, but very near.
  2. "Two" is the number of Witness. This is a further indicator that the Church is meant. It is even more decisive when we add the ten dead virgins to the two living and get 12 - the number of God's People.
  3. "Taken" in the Greek is a DIFFERENT word to verse 39. It is "PARALAMBANO", and it means; "to take as a well-known companion". When Joseph took Mary to Egypt to save Jesus' life, he TOOK (as an intimate companion) his wife Mary.
  4. "Your Lord" indicates that the "taking as an intimate companion" is done by the Lord "arriving". The Greek word rendered "cometh" in verse 44 is "erchomai" which strictly speaking, means "ARRIVES"
  5. "The House" must be the Church. The Lord addresses the "TWO" as "YE DISCIPLES". Two is number of Witness. He calls Himself "YOUR Lord" showing that they had chosen Him as Lord. He calls them "SERVANTS". Each one alone might not be decisive, but all together prove that the House is the Church.
  6. "Thief". If the House is the Church, why does the Lord take the role of "thief"? Because a thief comes silently and TAKES what is VALUABLE. What is valuable to the Lord? OVERCOMING CHRISTIANS! (see below).
  7. "Cometh". The Greek word, as is said above, is "erchomai". Jesus is returning to earth. His starting point is the Father's throne "above the highest heaven". On this journey our Lord Jesus passes the third heaven, the stratosphere (where there are no clouds) and passes into the troposphere where there are clouds - and stops. He "ARRIVES" in the clouds. How do we know this? If He traveled all the way to the surface of the earth, the ones who were TAKEN would cause an absurdity. If Jesus sat down next to you now, you could not, and would not, be TAKEN ANYWHERE. So the "ARRIVAL" of Jesus is somewhere above the earth. And we know from 1st Thessalonians 4 that it is the clouds of the troposphere.
This all adds up to this; Our Lord Jesus leaves heaven to return to earth. On the way He is crowned and given His own throne. Then He arrives in the clouds and pauses. SOME Christians are "TAKEN as intimate companions" and SOME are LEFT to face the Great Tribulation. The Church is broken up. But immediately the objection comes; WHY IS ONE LEFT while the others is TAKEN???

The answer is very simple, but very unpopular. From the moment the Church was announced in Matthew 16, there have been major problems with it. The first one is Peter speaking for Satan in Matthew 16:23. The Lord Jesus gave a string of parables that show proplems in among those Servants, Virgins and Disciples when He comes. He says that riches and the flesh will stop Christians from entering the Kingdom. Disunity, the flesh and pride plagued the Corinthians. The Law plagued the Galatians. John had to wite because Gnosticism crept into the Church. And finally, in the last Book of the Word of God, Apocalypse (Revelation), FIVE of SEVEN Churches are found apostate. These PROBLEMS did not happen to political parties. Nor did they happen to clubs and fraternities. THEY HAPPENED AMONG CHRISTIANS!

That is, there are good Christians and bad (2nd Tim.2:20-21). Every one of you know BELIEVERS who are lukewarm, fleshly and downright sinners. You might even be honest enough to say that you YOURSELF have problems. That is, Christians have problems. And the Lord, in His wisdom has SET REWARDS for those who deny themselves and follow Him. In THREE SCRIPTURES, all in context of the Lord's COMING, is the promise made that because of BEHAVIOR - NOT FAITH, certain CHRISTIANS will be TAKEN as intimate companions of the Lord - and that IMPLIES that the rest will be LEFT.
  1. In Philippians 3:14 Paul says that the "UPWARD CALL" (lit. Gk.) is a PRIZE. The context is the same a 1st Thessalonian 4 - RESURRECTION and RAPTURE. Paul must "PRESS" for it - implying great effort.
  2. In Luke 21:36 one must be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to escape the things that will happen on earth and "STAND" before the Son of man (in the clouds - because that is where he will be). Luke 21:36 does not say that the WORTHY are KEPT. It says that they ESCAPE what happens on the whole earth
  3. In Revelation 3:10 Christ promises those that "kept the word of His patience" that He will KEEP them from the HOUR of trial that comes on THE WHOLE EARTH. These "Overcomers" are NOT KEPT IN the trial. The are KEPT (i) FROM the trial, and (ii) FROM the HOUR of trial. If the trial encompasses the whole earth, the "FROM" the trial must be away from the earth, and "FROM the HOUR" means that they are NOT PRESENT DURING THE TIME IT TAKES

Matthew 24:37 to 44 is about CHRISTIAN. Those TAKEN are taken as friends and ESCAPE. They are VALUABLE. From this separation of witnesses the HOUSE id broken up - the Church. Those lEFT are left for the hour of judgment on the whole earth just like Noah's flood.
In Mathew 11 it just says 11¶He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

what makes you believe this is referring to the 'church ' ? It looks like
it's just given ( parables) For the disciples, those that were there .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
5,327
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#9
In Mathew 11 it just says 11¶He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

what makes you believe this is referring to the 'church ' ? It looks like
it's just given ( parables) For the disciples, those that were there .
Its Paul who is given the understanding of the harpazo.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
6,368
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#10
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
" before the flood"
One taken / left

"in the flood " all were "Taken"

In mat 25 Jesus vividly depicts the rapture. (one taken ,One left behind)

Both examples are the rapture,and spoken by Jesus in almost the same breath.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
5,327
1,024
113
#11
" before the flood"
One taken / left

"in the flood " all were "Taken"

In mat 25 Jesus vividly depicts the rapture. (one taken ,One left behind)

Both examples are the rapture,and spoken by Jesus in almost the same breath.
Matthew 25 ?
 
Mar 21, 2009
2,462
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New York
#12
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
Maybe. Maybe not. I am still waiting on my learning curve and I do not feel pressure to decide.

The one GLARING problem with your interpretation would be the fact that the JUDGMENT of the last days is clearly seen to be a series of seals, trumpets, bowls, etc. Their accumulated effect dispossessing the earth of its unlawful inhabitants and the final climax of the great slaughter of the antichrist armies and then after the 1000 year reign an additional slaughter of the raging nations and then the creation of the new earth.

There is no ONE 24 hour day judgment unless you apply it to the earth melting with fervent heat, but by that time there have been many layers of judgment.

In other words, if the One Taken is taken like the flood, when? The Famine? The Pestilence? Hail Stones? Sun burning? Locusts? The battle of Armegeddon? The nations gathered to fight against the Lamb at the end of the 1000 years? Which is the day they are taken and another left?

As you can see, it will be anyone's opinion which literal day they are taken in judgment and another left, since there are people being killed by judgment from the initial start of these series of judgment until the very new earth.

And if it is to be applied only to that judgment that comes upon them when they least expect it, then which of the judgments in Rev do you apply it to?

Now... since we know that these judgments start suddenly and continue for some time, we then have reason to interpret it as those that are LEFT are the ones who are SUDDENLY taken into the Day of the Wrath of GOD and too late to be in the ark of the chambers of the Lord until his indignation be overpast.

So one being taken in the rapture and the other left to face the series of judgments does indeed compare to Noah and the Flood because they are suddenly left to face that dark day which has a beginning and begins with the rapture of the saints.

You see that since the day of the Lord is a whole series of judgments poured out on the earth and described in Revelation, the interpretation that the one LEFT to face it is more applicable. The flood started and continued rising for days until it took them all away.
The judgments of the Tribulation start, and continue wiping out 1/3 of man under one of the judgments, another 1/3 under other judgments and continuing until a climax. Therefore the ones LEFT would be the ones experiencing the judgments. The ones taken would be the ones in the Ark, in this case gathered to meet the BODY in the air, which is Christ.


Since the main point of "where the body is there will the eagles be gathered together" seems to be a mysterious answer to the question of "where" will they be taken, this would suggest that they disciples did not think they were taken in judgment as in "killed" because if so, they would expect an answer like Hell, or Sheol, or Lake of Fire, but this cryptic answer tells us that they understood Jesus as talking about where the saved people go and that is why they asked "where" because they expect to be in that number.

If they thought Jesus was talking about where the judged people went comparable to those who died in the flood they would not have asked "where lord" because it would be like asking "where did the people who drowned in the flood go" But they did not ask where the people who are LEFT go did they? Why don't they ask where the people who are LEFT go, and if they understood Jesus to be talking about the LEFT being the saved than why didn't they ask about what the people LEFT do next? They didn't care about the ones that were LEFT at all. Which means Jesus audience understood him as saying that the ones TAKEN were the saved ones and these are the ones they are curious about. "WHERE LORD"

Jesus tells them that they will be gathered where He is. That is the meaning of the cryptic answer. He is not going to tell them any more than that, and they will not get anything else but what Paul writes later. "Rise up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the Air"

I don't think it is wrong for Jesus to use the imagery of circling birds up in the sky who come from all directions and circle together. In the natural that is just carrion birds drawn by the presence of a body on the ground. But there is no reason to conclude that Jesus is talking about something evil just because we think that vultures and dead bodies are no way to describe the rapture because of the unpleasant details of dead bodies. The gathering of the birds in the sky and that imagery is what Jesus is referring to, and we go beyond his intended reference when we start focusing on decay or death etc. The attention should be only on the how the birds are all drawn to one certain point in the sky and this is done by nature how much more can God draw all those who are ready to gather to Him in the air just like Paul writes about.

So you see there are two interpretations but which one seems to be more inline with the rest of scriptures and which one do you think is the superior hermeneutic.

While you are deciding, take your time. There is no rush. Living ready to meet the Lord requires that you give your heart completely to him and walk in holiness and sobriety hating sin and fleeing youthful lusts. It does not require that you have this chapter of Matthew completely understood. Therefore do not vilify your brother if he believes the LEFT ones are judged and do not vilify your brother if he believes the TAKEN ones are the judged. Otherwise you might be wrong and then your hostility toward your brother might lead to further darkness and eventually cause you to not be ready when the Lord comes.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#13
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN , and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I would see in verse 39 that to be taken is a negative occurrence. All the ones taken in the flood perished / were judged . The ones that remained were saved .

So it looks like the ones taken in verses 40 and 41 are also TAKEN in judgment.
This looks like the time of the tribulation.
Good day, throughfaith!

We have to keep in mind, that the disciples question was, 'what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age.

So, the end of the age includes the Lord's actual arrival on the clouds and all of the events that lead up to that. So, people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, represents the attitude of the inhabitants just before God's wrath begins, i.e. business as usual, no fear of God and no concern regarding His wrath. Then, just like the door of the arc being shut and the wrath that followed, so will the church be gathered (a type of Noah) with the wrath of God to follow.

The 'one taken and the other left,' is what takes place as Christ is returning to the earth. In the scripture, the 'one taken' group, is being compared to those taken in the flood. So the comparison is wicked to wicked. I say this because there are many who erroneously interpret those being taken as the gathering of the church, which is false. Matthew 13 also describes the 'one taken' group represented by the weeds. In Matthew 13:30, the harvesters, which are the angels, will go throughout the earth and FIRST COLLECT THE WEEDS. These are the ones taken.

This is also evident in Luke's version where Jesus says 'one will be taken and the other left' and the disciples say "where, Lord?" and the Lord says "wherever there is a dead body, there will the vultures (birds) gather together. By this saying, the Lord is referring to another event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth, where in Revelation 19:17-18, an angel will be calling all the birds to come to the great supper of God to eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people." This is the meaning of "wherever the dead body is, there will the vultures be gathered. And it is those of the 'one taken' group who will be taken and killed with the birds gorging themselves on their flesh.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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#14
Yes, those "taken" are "taken away in judgment," and those "left" are "left" to enter and populate the kingdom [/earthly MK age], just as in Noah's day (compare this passage in Matthew 24 with both Dan2:35 and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILL/FILLED the [/whole] earth")


[and note that the text says, "they knew not UNTIL"... but it was not Noah who "knew not"... he had heeded God's word and prepared the ark beforehand, Heb11:7]
If they thought Jesus was talking about where the judged people went comparable to those who died in the flood they would not have asked "where lord" because it would be like asking "where did the people who drowned in the flood go" But they did not ask where the people who are LEFT go did they? Why don't they ask where the people who are LEFT go, and if they understood Jesus to be talking about the LEFT being the saved than why didn't they ask about what the people LEFT do next? They didn't care about the ones that were LEFT at all. Which means Jesus audience understood him as saying that the ones TAKEN were the saved ones and these are the ones they are curious about. "WHERE LORD"
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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#15
If they thought Jesus was talking about where the judged people went comparable to those who died in the flood they would not have asked "where lord" because it would be like asking "where did the people who drowned in the flood go" But they did not ask where the people who are LEFT go did they? Why don't they ask where the people who are LEFT go, and if they understood Jesus to be talking about the LEFT being the saved than why didn't they ask about what the people LEFT do next? They didn't care about the ones that were LEFT at all. Which means Jesus audience understood him as saying that the ones TAKEN were the saved ones and these are the ones they are curious about. "WHERE LORD"
Keep going forward with that line of thinking. They are the eagles and they were taken to the carcass.
 
Mar 21, 2009
2,462
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New York
#16
Good day, throughfaith!

We have to keep in mind, that the disciples question was, 'what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age.

So, the end of the age includes the Lord's actual arrival on the clouds and all of the events that lead up to that. So, people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, represents the attitude of the inhabitants just before God's wrath begins, i.e. business as usual, no fear of God and no concern regarding His wrath. Then, just like the door of the arc being shut and the wrath that followed, so will the church be gathered (a type of Noah) with the wrath of God to follow.

The 'one taken and the other left,' is what takes place as Christ is returning to the earth. In the scripture, the 'one taken' group, is being compared to those taken in the flood. So the comparison is wicked to wicked. I say this because there are many who erroneously interpret those being taken as the gathering of the church, which is false. Matthew 13 also describes the 'one taken' group represented by the weeds. In Matthew 13:30, the harvesters, which are the angels, will go throughout the earth and FIRST COLLECT THE WEEDS. These are the ones taken.

This is also evident in Luke's version where Jesus says 'one will be taken and the other left' and the disciples say "where, Lord?" and the Lord says "wherever there is a dead body, there will the vultures (birds) gather together. By this saying, the Lord is referring to another event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth, where in Revelation 19:17-18, an angel will be calling all the birds to come to the great supper of God to eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people." This is the meaning of "wherever the dead body is, there will the vultures be gathered. And it is those of the 'one taken' group who will be taken and killed with the birds gorging themselves on their flesh.
So a woman will be at a mill stone and get translated to the field of battle and be eaten by birds? A man will be in bed and be translated to a battlefield and birds will eat him?

If they thought Jesus was talking about where the judged people went comparable to those who died in the flood they would not have asked "where lord" because it would be like asking "where did the people who drowned in the flood go." But they did not ask where the people who are LEFT go did they? They did not care about them.
If they thought that they themselves were included in the LEFT group, then Why don't they ask where the people who are LEFT go? and if they understood Jesus to be talking about the LEFT being the saved then why didn't they ask about what the people LEFT do next? They didn't care about the ones that were LEFT at all.

Which means Jesus audience understood him as saying that the ones TAKEN were the saved ones and these are the ones they are curious about. "WHERE LORD" They want to know what happens to the ones that are TAKEN because they identify that group to include THEMSELVES. :) You're welcome.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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#17
Keep going forward with that line of thinking. They are the eagles and they were taken to the carcass.
Yes, I addressed it another post. Here it is below:

Jesus tells them that they will be gathered where He is. That is the meaning of the cryptic answer. He is not going to tell them any more than that, and they will not get anything else but what Paul writes later. "Rise up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the Air"

I don't think it is wrong for Jesus to use the imagery of circling birds up in the sky who come from all directions and circle together. In the natural that is just carrion birds drawn by the presence of a body on the ground. But there is no reason to conclude that Jesus is talking about something evil just because we think that vultures and dead bodies are no way to describe the rapture because of the unpleasant details of dead bodies. The gathering of the birds in the sky and that imagery is what Jesus is referring to, and we go beyond his intended reference when we start focusing on decay or death etc. The attention should be only on the how the birds are all drawn to one certain point in the sky and this is done by nature how much more can God draw all those who are ready to gather to Him in the air just like Paul writes about.

So you see there are two interpretations but which one seems to be more inline with the rest of scriptures and which one do you think is the superior hermeneutic.
 
Mar 21, 2009
2,462
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New York
#18
Keep going forward with that line of thinking. They are the eagles and they were taken to the carcass.
The birds circling in the sky as they all gather there in mass and we observe this site from the ground. It is an amazing sight in nature. We know why they are gathering. They have spotted a body on the ground. We don't see it. But we know it is there because of this site in the sky. The gathering of the saints rising up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air is where these are TAKEN to. They are TAKEN to be with HIM. They will literally be seen by those Left behind. They wont disappear from view until they have risen out of sight.

I think it is a misinterpretation to think that Jesus meant birds gathering on the ground on top of the dead body. He was talking about gathering in the sky first because there is a body. That gathering in the sky is the point of his cryptic statement.
"Where Lord?" They will be gathered together in the sky and meet the Lord in the air.

Comfort one another with these words. :)
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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#19
Yes, I addressed it another post. Here it is below:

Jesus tells them that they will be gathered where He is. That is the meaning of the cryptic answer. He is not going to tell them any more than that, and they will not get anything else but what Paul writes later. "Rise up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the Air"

I don't think it is wrong for Jesus to use the imagery of circling birds up in the sky who come from all directions and circle together. In the natural that is just carrion birds drawn by the presence of a body on the ground. But there is no reason to conclude that Jesus is talking about something evil just because we think that vultures and dead bodies are no way to describe the rapture because of the unpleasant details of dead bodies. The gathering of the birds in the sky and that imagery is what Jesus is referring to, and we go beyond his intended reference when we start focusing on decay or death etc. The attention should be only on the how the birds are all drawn to one certain point in the sky and this is done by nature how much more can God draw all those who are ready to gather to Him in the air just like Paul writes about.

So you see there are two interpretations but which one seems to be more inline with the rest of scriptures and which one do you think is the superior hermeneutic.
The body of Jesus is dead when the eagles are gathered to him. There's only one time when that was possible, and it has a 3 day window.
 
Mar 21, 2009
2,462
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#20
The body of Jesus is dead when the eagles are gathered to him. There's only one time when that was possible, and it has a 3 day window.
There is no emphasis in Jesus statement on whether the body is dead it is simply body. Which is why the KJV used that word. Good translation. Intended meaning? probably on the natural phenomenon of birds meeting in the sky which we have all witnessed. That is the main point, not the deadness of the body on the ground.
The natural facts are that the birds circle like that waiting to be sure that the animal is dead. It is quite common for the body to be alive, or just sleeping.

Growing up in East Texas, me and my friends use to lie still in a cow field and watch as the buzzards began to circle over us high in the sky. If it was not an acceptingly hot day we would lie there for over an hour and get them to drop lower and lower and start gathering more and more and then we would jump up and they would all disperse.

Jesus point here is the gathering of the birds not the deadness or decay of the body. We will gather where Jesus is in the sky. It will happen without us having to know how it is done. We are changed, rise up in the clouds and meet the lord in the air, just like eagles coming from all over to circle a body. Not that Jesus means we will circle in formation. See that would be going beyond his point. We don't need to make anything out of the nature of the type of bird, or the life style of a vulture or the ichynes of a dead body. When we dig that deep in his simple answer we are going beyond the point.

I could be wrong. But I think this interpretation fits better. I am open to reconsider and I do it all the time as others present their case for their interpretation.