Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#41
I'm curious, why were you so "adamant" about the right or correct method of water baptism being the oneness pentecostal way? Secondly, the following is how a very stauch oneness I know defines God.

"Jesus is the Word, the God, the flesh, the Spirit, the man, the Father, the Son, the Alpha & Omega, the Lord God Almighty, He is all!" Do you agree with this statment? If not, why not? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
No. Jesus is the Father, the son and the Holy spirit. simple.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#43
The question I ask was very specific rlm68 based on the definition provided by a "staunch" oneness pentecostal I've known for years, is Jesus Christ the person of God the Father and the person of the Holy Spirit? Is He/Jesus all of them? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Yes, why not? :cool:
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#44
No, Jesus was not created.

Firstborn (prototokos) is not firstcreated (protoktistos).

You can use term "the Son of God", if you do not want to use term "God the Son". As long as you accept that Jesus is God, it does not matter what term you use.
It really matters what you think. Is the son of God one person and one being or one person and a third of a being?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#46
Ok, then, show me how it's wrong.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
Mt 28:19

"as the Father has sent Me, I also send you"
J 20:21

"God was with Him"
Acts 10:38

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
J 17:5

"I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me"
J 14:31

"In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
J 8:18

Do I need to say more?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#47
It really matters what you think. Is the son of God one person and one being or one person and a third of a being?
God is not a pie you can slice into thirds.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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932
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#48
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
Mt 28:19

"as the Father has sent Me, I also send you"
J 20:21

"God was with Him"
Acts 10:38

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
J 17:5

"I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me"
J 14:31

"In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
J 8:18

Do I need to say more?
Yes, you need much more than that. You are trying to show how the Father and the son are are distinct but not one. Try again.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
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#49
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
Mt 28:19

in all reality, since we know Peter and Paul baptized in the name of Christ, Matthew 28:19 is clearly an add on by the RCC.

Peter, being the Rock, would have done specifically what Christ taught Him. And since Peter baptized in Christ's name (Acts 2:38), money states that originally Matthew 28:19 said in name of Christ, not trinity.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#50
God is not a pie you can slice into thirds.
If God is not a pie and the son is one person and one being, then you have to reduce the Father and the Holy spirit to be zero beings so that the three could be one being- very bad of you.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#51
Yes, you need much more than that. You are trying to show how the Father and the son are are distinct but not one. Try again.
Yes, distinct. Thats what you reject.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
113
#52
in all reality, since we know Peter and Paul baptized in the name of Christ, Matthew 28:19 is clearly an add on by the RCC.

Peter, being the Rock, would have done specifically what Christ taught Him. And since Peter baptized in Christ's name (Acts 2:38), money states that originally Matthew 28:19 said in name of Christ, not trinity.
If you believe that Mt 28 was added by the RCC, you can also believe that Acts xyz was added by Sabellians.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#53
Yes, distinct. Thats what you reject.
Distinct persons yet one being is an impossibility. A square circle. I don't reject distinct, i reject distinct persons yet one being but accept distinct authorities of the same person.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#54
If God is not a pie and the son is one person and one being, then you have to reduce the Father and the Holy spirit to be zero beings so that the three could be one being- very bad of you.
This is silly. God is more than you can put into your pie logic.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#55
This is silly. God is more than you can put into your pie logic.
My logic is not a pie logic but a very simple one; God is one person that has revealed Himself in three authorities. His name (authority) is Jesus- the authority above every other authority.

Your's on the other hand is a pie logic.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#56
Do I need to say more?
I like this one

You heard that I said to you, I am going away, and I am coming again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, I am going to the Father; for My Father is greater than I. John 14:28
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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#57
You are 100% correct!!

Outside of knowing Peter commanded in Acts 2:38 to baptize in the Name of Christ (not the trinity), we see Paul did the same thing in Acts 19 :4-5

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Clearly the FIRST CHURCH that included Peter and Paul baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus (not the trinity).
Amen! Jesus also Baptized people. Can you imagine him doing so in the name of the three?
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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#60
I find it interesting you quoted John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." The verse literally reads, "I and the Father, We are one." What one ostrich? They are one in nature or essence, that is what Jesus is saying. If you read the context of the previous few verses Jesus is telling the Jews that the sheep are equally as safe in the Father's hand and in His hands.

Now, God the Father and God the Son are also one in purpose but in these verses that is not the point Jesus is making. When Jesus said, "He and the Father are one" look at the response of the Jews at John 10:31, "The Jews took up stones AGAIN to stone Him, why?

The answer is at vs33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy ostrich?) because YOu, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." In other words, the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant when He said His Father and Him are one.

And one more thing? Jesus was "NOT" created by God His Father. Jesus is the creator along with His Father. John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him/Jesus, and apart from Him (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." It seems to me ostrich, you have alot Bible Study to do. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I was thinking the same thing about you. When God's words say he is one and there is no other, no one who supports Tri-Theism is able to sustain a three fold deity and comport with God's own words. Try as they might.

Jesus was not created by God? Maybe start your study with a Bible dictionary and look to the meaning of, "begat".
Yeshua, Immanuel = God with us, the very scripture revokes your claim that Jesus was not God, was created as a human child with all our physical attributes in utero. So as to be born into this world following the prophetic promise of the arrival of Messiah. Because humans could not look upon God the holy spirit and live.
God is God. Messiah was prophesied throughout the old testament. He wasn't labeled as "Jesus" in the old testament. Because Jesus is the Greek translation of Yoshua, Yeshua, Joshua. God in the old testament prophesied his coming in future. And he arrived in what is later documented in the new testament.

God is one. Emmanuel was holy spirit God.