Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
112
63
#1
Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

Well, the answer to the above question depends on what a person actually means when they are mentioning that very word (Obedience). If When a minister uses the word obedience, If they are referring to the One Act of Obedience of Obeying the Gospel (which is believing the Gospel of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ). Then Yes, Obedience (that one act of Obedience) is necessary for Salvation. Since a person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

And how does one Obey the Gospel? By Simply Believing the Gospel. And that’s it.

However though, When a person says that Obedience is Necessary for Salvation, if what they are referring to is obeying the commandments, and living Holy, then the answer to the question above is: NO. Since Commandment keeping and holy living are not a requirement for Salvation.

Obeying the Commandments and living Holy are a requirement for Discipleship and Spiritual growth, but they are not a requirement for Salvation. Since Salvation is not a process, but rather, it is a One Time Event. Whereas Discipleship, on the other hand, is not a One Time Event. But rather, Discipleship is a Life long journey and endeavor. Discipleship deals with how one lives their life. For consider this question now: How many times did Adam have to sin and disobey the word of God before he died spiritually and became a sinner? Only ONE TIME. All it took was ONE ACT of Disobedience against God and against His word to plunge the whole entire world into sin. And so for a lost sinner to get saved, to get out of the Line of Adam and to get into the Line of Christ, all that is required of them in terms of Obedience is the ONE ACT of Obedience: Obeying the Gospel.

And once again, how does a sinner Obey the Gospel? They Obey the Gospel by simply BELIEVING THE GOSPEL. If a person has believed the Gospel, then they have Obeyed the Gospel. It really is that simple, folks.

Furthermore, one of the reasons that what I just stated is true is this. No one has ever perfectly obeyed the Bible. No one lives in complete perfect obedience, since no one is without sin. We all still have a wicked, sin nature dwelling in our body of flesh. The only man who has ever lived in complete, perfect obedience is the Man Christ Jesus, God manifest in the Flesh. Only Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the word of God, as He was on this earth, fulfilling His earthly ministry. And yet, no one before Jesus and no one after Jesus, has ever done what Jesus Christ did. No other man on this Earth could perfectly obey the word of God. Only Jesus Christ could do that. For He was without Sin. And since None of us can claim perfect obedience to the law of God, this also is why Obedience (i.e. Commandment keeping, living holy) is not required for Salvation.

For If it was, then Salvation would be based on our works and on our performance. And it would not be by Grace. You see folks, God does not Grade on a Curve. God’s standard is perfect, complete, holiness. This is why we must have the Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture. If we are not as perfect and just and holy as the Lord Jesus Christ and His word (the King James Holy Bible) are, then we cannot make it into heaven. We MUST be as Perfect and Holy as Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture, are. That’s the only way we will make it into Heaven. Salvation is not of us. It is completely of God and His Holy Scripture.

In conclusion, the only Obedience which IS necessary for Salvation is the One Act of Obedience, which once again, is Obeying the Gospel. And a person obeys the Gospel by Believing the Gospel. By putting their faith and trust in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and trusting in Him alone to save them. And then the Obedience which comes after Salvation: keeping the commandments, Abiding in Christ, Walking in the Spirit, Living Holy. This Obedience which concerns how we walk and live as Children of God, this Obedience is only a requirement for Discipleship and spiritual growth. But it has nothing to do with our Salvation. God and His word took care of our Salvation. And now Discipleship and living Holy depends on Us and what WE DO.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#2
Yes, I believe so. But many people believe obedience = works.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#3
Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

Well, the answer to the above question depends on what a person actually means when they are mentioning that very word (Obedience). If When a minister uses the word obedience, If they are referring to the One Act of Obedience of Obeying the Gospel (which is believing the Gospel of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ). Then Yes, Obedience (that one act of Obedience) is necessary for Salvation. Since a person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

And how does one Obey the Gospel? By Simply Believing the Gospel. And that’s it.

However though, When a person says that Obedience is Necessary for Salvation, if what they are referring to is obeying the commandments, and living Holy, then the answer to the question above is: NO. Since Commandment keeping and holy living are not a requirement for Salvation.

Obeying the Commandments and living Holy are a requirement for Discipleship and Spiritual growth, but they are not a requirement for Salvation. Since Salvation is not a process, but rather, it is a One Time Event. Whereas Discipleship, on the other hand, is not a One Time Event. But rather, Discipleship is a Life long journey and endeavor. Discipleship deals with how one lives their life. For consider this question now: How many times did Adam have to sin and disobey the word of God before he died spiritually and became a sinner? Only ONE TIME. All it took was ONE ACT of Disobedience against God and against His word to plunge the whole entire world into sin. And so for a lost sinner to get saved, to get out of the Line of Adam and to get into the Line of Christ, all that is required of them in terms of Obedience is the ONE ACT of Obedience: Obeying the Gospel.

And once again, how does a sinner Obey the Gospel? They Obey the Gospel by simply BELIEVING THE GOSPEL. If a person has believed the Gospel, then they have Obeyed the Gospel. It really is that simple, folks.

Furthermore, one of the reasons that what I just stated is true is this. No one has ever perfectly obeyed the Bible. No one lives in complete perfect obedience, since no one is without sin. We all still have a wicked, sin nature dwelling in our body of flesh. The only man who has ever lived in complete, perfect obedience is the Man Christ Jesus, God manifest in the Flesh. Only Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the word of God, as He was on this earth, fulfilling His earthly ministry. And yet, no one before Jesus and no one after Jesus, has ever done what Jesus Christ did. No other man on this Earth could perfectly obey the word of God. Only Jesus Christ could do that. For He was without Sin. And since None of us can claim perfect obedience to the law of God, this also is why Obedience (i.e. Commandment keeping, living holy) is not required for Salvation.

For If it was, then Salvation would be based on our works and on our performance. And it would not be by Grace. You see folks, God does not Grade on a Curve. God’s standard is perfect, complete, holiness. This is why we must have the Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture. If we are not as perfect and just and holy as the Lord Jesus Christ and His word (the King James Holy Bible) are, then we cannot make it into heaven. We MUST be as Perfect and Holy as Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture, are. That’s the only way we will make it into Heaven. Salvation is not of us. It is completely of God and His Holy Scripture.

In conclusion, the only Obedience which IS necessary for Salvation is the One Act of Obedience, which once again, is Obeying the Gospel. And a person obeys the Gospel by Believing the Gospel. By putting their faith and trust in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and trusting in Him alone to save them. And then the Obedience which comes after Salvation: keeping the commandments, Abiding in Christ, Walking in the Spirit, Living Holy. This Obedience which concerns how we walk and live as Children of God, this Obedience is only a requirement for Discipleship and spiritual growth. But it has nothing to do with our Salvation. God and His word took care of our Salvation. And now Discipleship and living Holy depends on Us and what WE DO.
If all you want out of life today is salvation for after we leave this world, then all you need is faith and enough obedience to not willfully sin. If you have faith in all Christ offers enough to follow Him, life in both this world and the world to come becomes much fuller and wonderful.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,240
383
83
29
Anacortes, WA
#4
"Obedience unto the gospel" is an event (justification) (1 Pet 5:17).
"Obedience unto Jesus Christ" is a process (sanctification) (1 Pet 1:2).
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
3,006
1,851
113
#5
If all you want out of life today is salvation for after we leave this world, then all you need is faith and enough obedience to not willfully sin. If you have faith in all Christ offers enough to follow Him, life in both this world and the world to come becomes much fuller and wonderful.
What do you mean by wilful sin? The Corinthian sinner, was he willfully sinning? He must have known he was in the wrong. Would he have gone to hell if he had not repented? How could God consign a born again spirit to hell? Some Christians just don't understand the meaning of grace.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
3,006
1,851
113
#6
Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

Well, the answer to the above question depends on what a person actually means when they are mentioning that very word (Obedience). If When a minister uses the word obedience, If they are referring to the One Act of Obedience of Obeying the Gospel (which is believing the Gospel of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ). Then Yes, Obedience (that one act of Obedience) is necessary for Salvation. Since a person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

And how does one Obey the Gospel? By Simply Believing the Gospel. And that’s it.

However though, When a person says that Obedience is Necessary for Salvation, if what they are referring to is obeying the commandments, and living Holy, then the answer to the question above is: NO. Since Commandment keeping and holy living are not a requirement for Salvation.

Obeying the Commandments and living Holy are a requirement for Discipleship and Spiritual growth, but they are not a requirement for Salvation. Since Salvation is not a process, but rather, it is a One Time Event. Whereas Discipleship, on the other hand, is not a One Time Event. But rather, Discipleship is a Life long journey and endeavor. Discipleship deals with how one lives their life. For consider this question now: How many times did Adam have to sin and disobey the word of God before he died spiritually and became a sinner? Only ONE TIME. All it took was ONE ACT of Disobedience against God and against His word to plunge the whole entire world into sin. And so for a lost sinner to get saved, to get out of the Line of Adam and to get into the Line of Christ, all that is required of them in terms of Obedience is the ONE ACT of Obedience: Obeying the Gospel.

And once again, how does a sinner Obey the Gospel? They Obey the Gospel by simply BELIEVING THE GOSPEL. If a person has believed the Gospel, then they have Obeyed the Gospel. It really is that simple, folks.

Furthermore, one of the reasons that what I just stated is true is this. No one has ever perfectly obeyed the Bible. No one lives in complete perfect obedience, since no one is without sin. We all still have a wicked, sin nature dwelling in our body of flesh. The only man who has ever lived in complete, perfect obedience is the Man Christ Jesus, God manifest in the Flesh. Only Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the word of God, as He was on this earth, fulfilling His earthly ministry. And yet, no one before Jesus and no one after Jesus, has ever done what Jesus Christ did. No other man on this Earth could perfectly obey the word of God. Only Jesus Christ could do that. For He was without Sin. And since None of us can claim perfect obedience to the law of God, this also is why Obedience (i.e. Commandment keeping, living holy) is not required for Salvation.

For If it was, then Salvation would be based on our works and on our performance. And it would not be by Grace. You see folks, God does not Grade on a Curve. God’s standard is perfect, complete, holiness. This is why we must have the Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture. If we are not as perfect and just and holy as the Lord Jesus Christ and His word (the King James Holy Bible) are, then we cannot make it into heaven. We MUST be as Perfect and Holy as Jesus Christ and His word, the Holy Scripture, are. That’s the only way we will make it into Heaven. Salvation is not of us. It is completely of God and His Holy Scripture.

In conclusion, the only Obedience which IS necessary for Salvation is the One Act of Obedience, which once again, is Obeying the Gospel. And a person obeys the Gospel by Believing the Gospel. By putting their faith and trust in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and trusting in Him alone to save them. And then the Obedience which comes after Salvation: keeping the commandments, Abiding in Christ, Walking in the Spirit, Living Holy. This Obedience which concerns how we walk and live as Children of God, this Obedience is only a requirement for Discipleship and spiritual growth. But it has nothing to do with our Salvation. God and His word took care of our Salvation. And now Discipleship and living Holy depends on Us and what WE DO.
What we do should be as a result of who we are. If teachers and preachers focused on the latter, we might have a more mature and fruitful church. Paul lays it out in Ephesians. We get a glorious exposition of who we are in Christ and what He has secured for us. Then Paul goes into how that should impact our lives. Too often, the cart is the wrong side of the horse. If we behave, we are spiritual. Never. We are spirtual therefore we behave! And that is a process. I was borderline alcoholic when I got saved. I was psychologically addicted. it took me two years to get free entirely. That I got free at all is entirely by God's grace. All I had to do was decide that I wanted to be free. God took care of the problem.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,551
1,317
113
#7
However though, When a person says that Obedience is Necessary for Salvation, if what they are referring to is obeying the commandments, and living Holy, then the answer to the question above is: NO. Since Commandment keeping and holy living are not a requirement for Salvation.
Do you believe adulterer, murder etc not go to heaven or still go to heaven because salvation don't need obidience

1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#8
Yes of course: we must listen to the Lord only and exclusively, and not to what men say.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
100
43
ogom.co
#9
Do you believe ... not go to heaven or still go to heaven ....

1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

when people see through the truth darkly

("for now we see through a glass darkly"), they do not have all the answers ....


even if they should claim in many words with loud voices that they do ....


this does not make it so.

but because many's see-ings by many are in in darkness to the point of blind-edness


even (caused in part or large part by teachings brought forth seeing in darkness

and taught by those also still too much in darkness


to begin to see enough their possible errors)


many will claim to speak truth when in fact they speak in darkness (lack of light

[Spirit] -- illumination).


this causes various doctrines --


that in turn (can) -- go against (wherever they happen to)

common sense and Spiritual Illumination --


given to those listening and being guided to Truth -- more and more

by the Spirit ---- over ---- any ---- and ---- all ---- Doctrines of Men.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#10
What do you mean by wilful sin? The Corinthian sinner, was he willfully sinning? He must have known he was in the wrong. Would he have gone to hell if he had not repented? How could God consign a born again spirit to hell? Some Christians just don't understand the meaning of grace.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#11
What do you mean by wilful sin? The Corinthian sinner, was he willfully sinning? He must have known he was in the wrong. Would he have gone to hell if he had not repented? How could God consign a born again spirit to hell? Some Christians just don't understand the meaning of grace.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
803
384
63
#12
So, what happens when a person believes the Gospel, and on their path of sanctification decides that they don't like sanctification and hardens their heart toward god until they no longer believe the Gospel?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
29,304
5,972
113
#13
IMO:

No, obedience is not necessary for salvation. The Third Chapter of John gives us the formula for salvation:

14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Obedience is a "fruit" of Salvation, or, it should be. Obedience to God/Jesus is necessary to remain in good standing or fellowship with God/Jesus. You might find it odd I would say these things considering I am the one who came up with Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity. More than a few had problems with this calling it "works Salvation," which, of course, it is not. It is OBEYING God/Jesus, which is a FRUIT of Salvation.

Jesus spoke of this quite clearly:

Matthew, Chapter 24:

10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Now, those that do not believe in "free will", or believe in "OSAS", will not believe that remaining obedient to God/Jesus throughout our lives is necessary. That is certainly their right. I believe in free will and in the need to walk obediently in this life to ensure our eternal reward promised by God/Jesus. From time to time, we will slip and find ourselves guilty of sinning. However this "sin of omission" does not mean we will lose our salvation. We are still children of God. But it does mean we must ask God for forgiveness and strive to continue to walk in obedience. We are human. As such, we are not perfect, and that is why God brought "saving grace" to earth for all mankind who will believe in and call upon the Name of Jesus.


Jesus taught us to ask for the forgiveness of our trespasses every time we pray. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

This does not mean Jesus will be "crucified" again. His crucifixion was ONCE for ALL TIME. His precious blood remains there available to all who need to be washed clean regardless of the number of times they stumble and fall.

(my thoughts)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,551
1,317
113
#14
Hebrew 11
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Why Noah save?
The root cause Noah save is not work/build an arch
Yes he work to build an arch, but why?
Because God give him grace of information that God will float the earth, and he believe

But, can you imagine, Noah have faith but not work (build an arch) what kind of faith is that

Real faith must be translate into work

Faith without work is death
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,631
11,259
113
56
#16
Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...
1 John 3:9 - No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (NASB 1995)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,631
11,259
113
56
#17
Hebrew 11
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Why Noah save?
The root cause Noah save is not work/build an arch
Yes he work to build an arch, but why?
Because God give him grace of information that God will float the earth, and he believe

But, can you imagine, Noah have faith but not work (build an arch) what kind of faith is that

Real faith must be translate into work

Faith without work is death
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17) If Noah had refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, yet that was not the case.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,049
113
#18
We are saved because of what we are, not what we do. However, what we do is based on who we are. We are the Body of Christ. Because He lives, we live. This is our salvation, to be a branch of the Vine.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,551
1,317
113
#19
1 for 6

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

I was go to the church that teach no need work salvation by grace not work. I like it because it is easier for me, but is that base on the Bible?

That verse alone prove that teaching against the Bible.

Paul that teach salvation by grace through faith also wrote that verse.

By grace because Jesus die to forgive our sin/ forgiveness is grace, but through faith

Faith not only believe that Jesus is god but also believe His teaching.

Imagine if Noah say believe God but not believe God information and not work thousands of hours to build an arch? Can he save?

Can he say, for salvation I don't need obidience but I don't want to be disciple.

Can he save?

What is the different between being save and being disciple?

Can you save without being disciple?

What is the definition of disciple?

Quote

1: one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrinesof another: such as
aChristianity : one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts
b: a convinced adherent of a school or individuala disciple of Freud
2capitalized, Christianity : a member of the Disciples of Christ founded in the U.S. in 1809 that holds the Bible alone to be the rule of faith and practice, usually baptizes by immersion, and has a congregational (see CONGREGATIONAL sense 3) polity

The one who accept ......

Can we save without accept the teaching of Jesus?

I believe devil also believe that Jesus is god
Devil also witness that Jesus die on the cross
Devil also believe and witness that Jesus risen from the death

Is devil save?

No because devil need one more, He do nod obey His teaching.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,551
1,317
113
#20
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17) If Noah had refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, yet that was not the case.
So how people say have a faith but only for disciple need work

How Noah save if he don't do work build an arch?

The grace in that case is information about the coming Fload
He believe that grace and do work to build an arch.