Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,669
99
48
#1
Perhaps most believe and have argued that repentance of ones' sins is required for salvation, and at least myself, say otherwise.
I don't know if anyone else believes as I do.
I suppose the issue of repentance revolves around the subject of God's forgiveness for the sinner.
I believe repentance is not necessary for salvation but what side of the subject do the scriptures support?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#2
Repentance is simply an inherent condition of salvation... it is simply implied, by logical necessity, as an intrinsic condition.


1. You cannot be saved from your sin unless you admit you have sin.
- You cannot ask to be saved from a thing unless you first know the thing exists.

2. You cannot be saved from sin unless you have a desire to be removed from your sin.
- Salvation IS to be removed from your sin... so asking for salvation shows you ALREADY DESIRE to be removed from your sin.

3. To "desire to be removed from your sin" ... is to be repentant.

a. The desire to be removed from your sin is a necessary condition of your salvation because... it is the antecedent and necessary condition.
b. Logically, you cannot be saved from your sin without a desire to be removed from your sin... one thing is implicit in the other.



This is truly a silly thing to argue about.

..
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,813
827
113
#3
Perhaps most believe and have argued that repentance of ones' sins is required for salvation, and at least myself, say otherwise.
I don't know if anyone else believes as I do.
I suppose the issue of repentance revolves around the subject of God's forgiveness for the sinner.
I believe repentance is not necessary for salvation but what side of the subject do the scriptures support?
The whole of Gods revelation is about repentance from sin, turning from evil and doing good.
No part of scripture does not mention this, and its aim is to show how and why people need to
do this.

Jonah is referred by Jesus as His sign to the jews, the need to repent, to turn from evil and do good or be
judged. There is no greater example of what repentance is and the meaning of the cross as the atoning sacrifice
that brings eternal forgiveness for our confessed and repented of sins.

20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
#4
Yes, repentance is required for salvation. Repentance and faith (Acts 20:21)

Repentance and faith is the result of the work of the Holy Spirit drawing as the Word of the Gospel is heard.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,925
288
83
#5
Perhaps most believe and have argued that repentance of ones' sins is required for salvation, and at least myself, say otherwise.
I don't know if anyone else believes as I do.
I suppose the issue of repentance revolves around the subject of God's forgiveness for the sinner.
I believe repentance is not necessary for salvation but what side of the subject do the scriptures support?
If a person does not repent of their sins, and is not truly sorry for what they have done in the past that was wrong, and does not turn from sins, hating sins, and not wanting to do sins, then how are they any different than the heathen, and how are the compatible with the operation of God, that He is good, which He said, be ye holy, for I am holy, and the operation of the kingdom of God that it is true love, which Paul said love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

But of course you probably believe that we have to go about doing good, hating evil, so you must think it is an automatic condition in our life that our sins are forgiven, so why repent.

But there has to be a participation on our part to confess that we do not want sin anymore, and turn from them, which is repentance, for if not then it would seem like we do not have to be sorry for what we did if we did not repent of our sins.

Which the Bible says that godly sorrow works repentance.

John's baptism was unto repentance, but did not save, for only Jesus can save.

Jesus preached repentance to the Jews, and said if the Jews do not repent then it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah at the day of judgment.

God said He commands all people everywhere to repent.

The Bible says pray without ceasing.

But the truth is if it is not necessary for us to repent, take participation on our part concerning our sins, then there is no need to pray for anything in our life, for God would take care of that without our participation in it.

If we do not have to repent, then we would not have to pray for other people, pray for ourselves, pray that God will provide our needs, pray to increase our faith, and spiritual walk with Christ, for it would be automatically taken care of without us praying for anything.

Which the Bible says ask and you shall receive, and Jesus taught the disciples how they should pray, so we have to pray for things, so we have to repent, for it is not going to happen unless we participate concerning those things to want it first, before God will do it.

Which if we do not have to repent, and we do not have to pray.

The Bible says that everyone that calleth on the name of the Lord shall be saved, which the confession of our mouth is what saves us, not that it is an automatic thing in our life that Christ works in us, but we did not have to confess Him.

If we do not have to repent then the whole world is saved.

If we offend a person do we say nothing to the person, and say we are sorry for offending them, but it is automatically alright on the part of the person we offended without saying anything.

When we sin we offend God, and His holiness, so we have to say we are sorry, and repent, not wanting to do it again.

But of course if we are living for Christ we repented whether a person says we do not have to repent, or not, and if we are led of the Spirit we hate sin, and do not want it, which we turned away from sins, then we repented whether a person believes we have to repent, or not.

It is only when we hold unto sin that we have not repented.

But anytime you hate sin, and turn from it, not wanting it, and sorry for your sins, you have repented whether you say anything to God to ask for forgiveness, and you repent, or you say nothing, but the truth is you are thinking it even if you do not say the words, for how can you not.

But God still wants us to communicate with Him concerning repentance when we sin, even though He will forgive, the same as He wants us to communicate with Him concerning praying for ourselves, and others, even though He already knows what we need, and what people need.

And then there are some people that beat themselves up mentally concerning their sins, for they look at themselves as no good because of them, and not worthy, although they asked God for repentance, which is something they should not do, for you repent, and move on, for all is forgiven and off your record, and if God is not against you for it anymore, why are you against yourself for it.

And some people beat themselves up mentally because of temptation, as they think they have to be so holy that they cannot even be tempted, which we will be tempted, and temptation is not a sin.

Like I heard a pastor say that he almost let temptations beat him down, for it bothered him, but do not think it is strange when you are tempted, for it happens to everybody.
 

Melach

Active member
Mar 28, 2019
446
249
43
#6
yes it is

how do you get saved? believe in Jesus

what is unbelief? sin

you must turn from that sin to be saved.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
1,384
258
83
#7
Repentance means "change of mind".

We need to change our minds that we can work for our salvation to acknowledging that Christ Jesus has already completed all the work required.

We need to confess that he is the Lord and believe that he has risen from the dead for our justification (Romans 10:9)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,739
2,806
113
#8
Similar to what Maxwell has said, we need to admit that we are sinners, and that WE can't do anything to save ourselves.

Try reading this verse as if Jesus is being sarcastic about the "righteous".

Matthew 9:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, [a]to repentance.”

So our repentance as it relates to Salvation is about repenting from the dead works that the "righteous" think will save them.

After conversion, the Holy Spirit will transform us, and give us the power to turn from sin.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
#9
yes it is

how do you get saved? believe in Jesus

what is unbelief? sin

you must turn from that sin to be saved.
Hey, Melach.

You read a post from me to Budman and thought it was to you and got offended.. In the faith/works thread. I wanted to apologize for the misunderstanding. Go check it out and see that I was not replying to you.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
661
202
43
#10
Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

It's unfortunate, that people invariably, tie the word REPENTANCE to sin.

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

KJV Dictionary Definition: REMISSION
Forgiveness; pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Repent, Repentance
(Strong's #3340 — Verb — metanoeo — met-an-o-eh'-o )
lit., "to perceive afterwards" (meta, "after," implying "change," noeo, "to perceive;" nous, "the mind, the seat of moral reflection"), in contrast to pronoeo, "to perceive beforehand," hence signifies "to change one's mind or purpose

Ok, Repent/repentance = Change of mind or purpose/direction. Remission = Pardon.

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE to ALL the PEOPLE of ISRAEL. To Prepare the way for the coming LORD. Isa 40:3, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4)

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: John is sent to ALL the PEOPLE of ISRAEL. Repent = change your mind & purpose TOWARDS God. The water Baptism was an outwardly cleansing/expression of their FAITH & inward change. To prepare them for the Lord that was coming to REMISS/PARDON their sins)

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.)

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: It's Belief/ faith in Christ's SHED BLOOD that provides the Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT the act of water baptisn)

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(NORE: Without Christ's shed blood there is NO Pardon/Remission for sins.)

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(NOTE: Whoever BELIEVES/trusts in Christ shed bolld payment. Will receive Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT whoever is water baptised)

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: These gentiles REPENTED FROM NOTHING, had not been water baptised, they had brought no temple sacrifice, hadn't obeyed any Mosaic laws etc. By/thru Faith & Faith alone they were FOREVER SEALED with/by God's Holy Spirit. A Spiritual baptism/circumcision, done without hands: Col 2:11, done by Christ & Christ alone Matt 3:11)

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Repentance isn't a requirement for salvation. Repentance is a result of one's faith. God grants/gives us the ability to repent & to turn from ungodly/dead works. It's this granted God given repentance that leads to Godly works. A result/fruit that process from of one's faith)

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(NOTE: Gentiles are called to FAITH, which leads to obedience)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(NOTE: It's not thru our greatness of obedience that we repent/change our thinking outlook. It's the indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to repent/change our thinking outlook).

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the "Gentiles might come to the obedience "that comes from faith"
(NOTE: It's thru FAITH that gentiles are brought to obedience/repentance/godly living)

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: Repentance TOWARD God, for the Jew that had a covenant with God. He was to return to serving God. To the gentile that never had God. He was to acknowledge that God is. 2ndly, Faith TOWARD our Lord Jesus Christ. The Jew was to acknowledge Jesus was their promised Messiah. The gentile was to place their faith in Christ's death, burial & resurrection)

Having said the above, I believe every Christian should partake in water baptism. An outwardly cleansing/expressing their FAITH TOWARD Christ & inward change TOWARD God. My Opinion Only
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,669
99
48
#11
Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

It's unfortunate, that people invariably, tie the word REPENTANCE to sin.

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

KJV Dictionary Definition: REMISSION
Forgiveness; pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Repent, Repentance
(Strong's #3340 — Verb — metanoeo — met-an-o-eh'-o )
lit., "to perceive afterwards" (meta, "after," implying "change," noeo, "to perceive;" nous, "the mind, the seat of moral reflection"), in contrast to pronoeo, "to perceive beforehand," hence signifies "to change one's mind or purpose

Ok, Repent/repentance = Change of mind or purpose/direction. Remission = Pardon.

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE to ALL the PEOPLE of ISRAEL. To Prepare the way for the coming LORD. Isa 40:3, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4)

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: John is sent to ALL the PEOPLE of ISRAEL. Repent = change your mind & purpose TOWARDS God. The water Baptism was an outwardly cleansing/expression of their FAITH & inward change. To prepare them for the Lord that was coming to REMISS/PARDON their sins)

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.)

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: It's Belief/ faith in Christ's SHED BLOOD that provides the Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT the act of water baptisn)

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(NORE: Without Christ's shed blood there is NO Pardon/Remission for sins.)

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(NOTE: Whoever BELIEVES/trusts in Christ shed bolld payment. Will receive Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT whoever is water baptised)

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: These gentiles REPENTED FROM NOTHING, had not been water baptised, they had brought no temple sacrifice, hadn't obeyed any Mosaic laws etc. By/thru Faith & Faith alone they were FOREVER SEALED with/by God's Holy Spirit. A Spiritual baptism/circumcision, done without hands: Col 2:11, done by Christ & Christ alone Matt 3:11)

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Repentance isn't a requirement for salvation. Repentance is a result of one's faith. God grants/gives us the ability to repent & to turn from ungodly/dead works. It's this granted God given repentance that leads to Godly works. A result/fruit that process from of one's faith)

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(NOTE: Gentiles are called to FAITH, which leads to obedience)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(NOTE: It's not thru our greatness of obedience that we repent/change our thinking outlook. It's the indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to repent/change our thinking outlook).

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the "Gentiles might come to the obedience "that comes from faith"
(NOTE: It's thru FAITH that gentiles are brought to obedience/repentance/godly living)

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: Repentance TOWARD God, for the Jew that had a covenant with God. He was to return to serving God. To the gentile that never had God. He was to acknowledge that God is. 2ndly, Faith TOWARD our Lord Jesus Christ. The Jew was to acknowledge Jesus was their promised Messiah. The gentile was to place their faith in Christ's death, burial & resurrection)

Having said the above, I believe every Christian should partake in water baptism. An outwardly cleansing/expressing their FAITH TOWARD Christ & inward change TOWARD God. My Opinion Only
I thoroughly enjoyed reading you post. :love:
It was very well thought out and written. (y)
I commend you concerning your knowledge and understanding of the scriptures.
And forgive me for raving over your post, but it was just that good!!!
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,669
99
48
#12
Similar to what Maxwell has said, we need to admit that we are sinners, and that WE can't do anything to save ourselves.

Try reading this verse as if Jesus is being sarcastic about the "righteous".

Matthew 9:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, [a]to repentance.”

So our repentance as it relates to Salvation is about repenting from the dead works that the "righteous" think will save them.

After conversion, the Holy Spirit will transform us, and give us the power to turn from sin.
You speak for yourself, not for me.
I am not a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
You might want to read up on what a sinner is in the new testament and find out what happens to them when they die.
It is written, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he".
If you think and see yourself as a sinner, then if you are not one yet, you will be some day soon.

Rom_3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe_4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We can't be both the righteousness of God and a sinner.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,220
1,422
113
#13
You speak for yourself, not for me.
I am not a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
.

So you never sin?

You never sin in any way?

You never sin in word, deed, or thought?

You are sinlessly perfect in every way?

???

.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
661
202
43
#14
I thoroughly enjoyed reading you post. :love:
It was very well thought out and written. (y)
I commend you concerning your knowledge and understanding of the scriptures.
And forgive me for raving over your post, but it was just that good!!!
Thank you for your kind words.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,813
827
113
#15
Repentance

Paul is quite simple about repentance
"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Act 26:20

For those who want to know what repent means look into the history of Israel, the old testament
and Hebrew

Four Steps of Repentance Teshuvah:

1 Forsake the sin (Prov. 28:13). "Sincere repentance is demonstrated when the same temptation to sin, under the same conditions, is resolutely resisted" (Talmud Yoma 86b). Note that according to traditional Jewish views, the atonement is of no avail without repentance (Midrash Sifra). [shuv/strepho]

2 Regret the breach in your relationship with God and others (Psalm 51). [nacham/metanoia]

3 Confess the truth and make amends with those we have harmed (Prov. 28:13; 1 John 1:9; James 5:16, Matt. 5:23-4). Note that we must ask for mechilah (forgiveness from others) before receiving selichah (forgiveness from God). [shuv/strepho]

4 Accept your forgiveness and move forward with the LORD through faith (Phil. 3:13-14; 1 John 1:9). Be comforted by the Presence of the LORD in your life: Nachumu: "Comfort ye my people" (Isa. 40:1). [nacham/metanoia].

Finally, it needs to be said that authentic repentance is a lifestyle, not a "one time deal." We never get past it. Although there is certainly spiritual progress as we walk in grace, all genuine progress comes through ongoing teshuvah. We may repent from a certain action at a given point in time, but that does not mean that no longer need to do teshuvah. Teshuvah is perpetual and timeless, since it corresponds to our spiritual rather than our temporal lives (i.e., chayei olam rather than chayei sha'ah). Indeed, a true penitent is called baal teshuvah , a "master of returning," who is always turning away from self and toward God. We never get beyond the call to "repent and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). That is why the season of teshuvah is always timely. The message of Elul and the High Holidays is meant to be carried over throughout the rest of the year.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

Many heretical teachers call repentance nothing to do with sin or turning to God and walking

in His ways, but they are simply wrong and founding their whole theology on a miss understanding

of the greek word metanoia

In the case of metanoia μετάνοια Bauer, BAGD says the following:

"repentance, turning about, conversion" as a turning away, (from sin). Also the positive aspects of repentance as turning towards God.

"For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." 2 Cor. 7:10

It is not just changing your approach in your mind.
Jesus tells it like this

"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:22

Who is Jesus calling to come to repentance?
Sinners! Because sinners are the ones who are called!
Paul is clear that repentance involved grief.

"As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us." 2 Cor. 7:9

And who is this repentance towards? Paul is clear that repentance has to do with God!

20 "how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house,
21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:20-21
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
2,813
827
113
#16
You speak for yourself, not for me.
I am not a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
You might want to read up on what a sinner is in the new testament and find out what happens to them when they die.
It is written, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he".
If you think and see yourself as a sinner, then if you are not one yet, you will be some day soon.

Rom_3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe_4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We can't be both the righteousness of God and a sinner.
Thank you know1

Prov 23:7
For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. NKJV
For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. AMP
for he is the kind of man who is always thinking about the cost. NIV

How we think in our hearts declares our true intentions and motives.
Jesus talked about the thoughts of those around Him, and rebuked them because of their thoughts.

So I agree knowing we are Gods chosen who walk in the light, is important, if we walk in the light
and are not deluded. Thinking one is something that is deluded does not make it true.

Paul puts it like this,

3 Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with
sober judgement, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Rom 12
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,739
2,806
113
#17
You speak for yourself, not for me.
I am not a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
You might want to read up on what a sinner is in the new testament and find out what happens to them when they die.
It is written, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he".
If you think and see yourself as a sinner, then if you are not one yet, you will be some day soon.

Rom_3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe_4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We can't be both the righteousness of God and a sinner.

yeah. I'm thinking you totally didn't get what I said.

Your question asked about repentance toward sin BEFORE regeneration. If we could turn from sin BEFORE becoming born again then Jesus did not have to die.

God cannot and will not save those that THINK THEIR righteousness will save them.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,552
4,937
113
53
#18
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ (Acts 20:21).

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean completely stop sinning. That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone would be saved in that case, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#19
If you mean does one have to be sinless before they are saved the answer is no.

If you mean does a person at least have to try to forsake their sin before they are saved I think the answer is yes.

Otherwise, what are they being saved from?


If a person could completely repent of their sin there would be no need of a Saviour.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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#20
If you mean does one have to be sinless before they are saved the answer is no.
If you mean does a person at least have to try to forsake their sin before they are saved I think the answer is yes.
Otherwise, what are they being saved from?
If a person could completely repent of their sin there would be no need of a Saviour.
It is an interesting concept, walking without sin would mean we have no need of a saviour.

After much thought, it struck me to reject love, God, is to sin. So it is not so much Gods nature
as saviour that is important, but that God is love, and in being love, for us to be moral, loving
righteous people, we will love Him with all that we are.

So the construct that Jesus is saving us, like people with a problem, and the problem is just removed
like a cold, we are then as before, but saved, is not the picture of who we are, or what life actually is.

We are born in love, with love beating in our hearts, calling out to learn and grow and develop. So
dynamic is this force it will work through any compromise to come to resolution. Children the world
over take on the burden of solving the families problems, wanting solutions to their challenges.

And Jesus through the cross holds out a hope, an answer, a blazing light in the darkness.
But to a hurt defended heart, Jesus becomes the safety patch to solve the problem of judgement and
hell, rather than communion, cleansing, purity and life everlasting. It is obvious there is a difference
and people will always hope for a quick fix, rather than the walk on new birth and transformation,
true faith and truth is Jesus and His way.