Is the Bible like a bad credit card...all kinds of hiden fees??

Chopsui101 · Mar 22, 2009

Ok, when I was a kid, we were taught that you are saved through grace. All you had to do was say that you believe in God and that Jesus died for your sins. That was it, and you would go to heaven. Ok, that is easy enough to do.

Well a little later in life we got the verse that says, good even the demons believe that God died. Ok, so now that you have us believing in God, and scared of hell, that imaginary firey place where funny dudes poke you with red pitch forks, we have to do something more than just believe.

Later in the Bible, we stumble accross the verse telling us that our faith with out works is dead. In fact, beleving and not doing anything, being luke warm is worse than being hot or cold.

In fact our works with out beliefs is dead.

So if we need works to prove our faith, and faith to validate our works, we can't get to heaven on just faith. And if to show works we have to sell our posessions and donate the money. This just doesn't make sense why anyone would say we get to heaven on just faith.

Why can't you believe in Jesus, but not love him? Isn't believing in him enough? Obviously not. Why wouldn't I not love him, if I believe? I don't know, but if faith really gets us to heaven I will be fine, but if not, I am destined to be wiped off the face of this universe.

Christianrkchk89 · Mar 22, 2009

If you love God and put your faith in Jesus....why wouldn't you drop your worldly ways and want to share Jesus' love with others? We don't want to be selfish...and leave others to rot in hell right?

juspekatzus · Mar 22, 2009

you young people have so many questions, much like myself when i was young. Jesus told his diciples to feed his sheep, he didn't mean food for the body, he mean't food for the heart, Gods word. there is so much sin in the world because sinners don;t know they are no longer under their sins, they are under the blood of Christ. God wants our hearts, not our heads. Jesus carried his cross once, was nailed to and shed his blood once, covering all our sins past present and future. demons are without repentance, for their father is the father of all lies. I'm sure if they allowed Gods word to clean their heart out before God though Christ, they would be given mercy. However, they have allready choosen who they follow. God so loved the world, sometimes we can harbour hurts from bad seed sown into our hearts which can hinder our relationship to God though Christ, please read, Galatians 2 verse 20-21.
I hope this helps, God bless you with the truth in Gods word. I thank God for your honesty!

jjkg · Mar 22, 2009

The demons believe in Jesus and yet, do not love Him.....so why aren't they saved? According to your idea of 'faith', they should be going to heaven just as much as the person who believes, but doesn't love him. Jesus said, "Those who love me will obey my commands." Those are the ones who have a sincere faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there will be no one in heaven who doesn't love the Lord. God's not going to force heaven on those people who ultimately loved themselves more than they did Him. Actually, I think the Bible refers to these people when it speaks of a people who "use the grace of God as a license for immorality". That's called 'cheap grace' and is not going to get anyone into His eternal presence.

Chopsui101 · Mar 22, 2009

jjkg said:

The demons believe in Jesus and yet, do not love Him.....so why aren't they saved? According to your idea of 'faith', they should be going to heaven just as much as the person who believes, but doesn't love him. Jesus said, "Those who love me will obey my commands." Those are the ones who have a sincere faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there will be no one in heaven who doesn't love the Lord. God's not going to force heaven on those people who ultimately loved themselves more than they did Him. Actually, I think the Bible refers to these people when it speaks of a people who "use the grace of God as a license for immorality". That's called 'cheap grace' and is not going to get anyone into His eternal presence.

I am just looking for a yes or no answer....do we go to heaven by faith alone??? or is there more....and that passage in the Bible is completely wrong...there is only one answer...yes or no

KingdomGeneration · Mar 22, 2009

Christianrkchk89 said:

You hit the nail on the head. It's about loving God and the desire for intimacy with Him no matter the personal cost to us.

pagie · Mar 22, 2009

Chopsui101 said:

Saved by grace
1. (Ephesians 2:8-9) - "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, that no one should boast."
2. (Rom. 3:20, 28) - "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin...28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
3. (Galatians 2:16) - "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Saved by works
1. (James 2:24) - "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."
2. (Matthew 19:16-17) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

God does not want a faith that is empty and hypocritical, you have faith in God or you dont. James 2 is talking about those who "say" that they have faith but have no works. Therefore, people cannot tell if they are true believers or not, because there is no fruit. That kind of a faith is useless and is not a saving faith. True faith results in true works.
In Matthew 19:16-17, Jesus was speaking to a Lawyer who was self-righteous since he wanted to put Jesus to the test (Luke 10:25). He asked what he must do in order to obtain eternal life and Jesus responded with the requirements of keeping the commandments. If a person keeps all of the commandments, it would seem that they could obtain eternal life. However, nobody can keep all of the commandments. Therefore, Jesus' comments to this man show this man that justification can only be by faith since no one can keep all of the commandments. This is why it says in Eph. 2:8 that we are saved by grace through faith. Also, Romans 3:20,28 and Galatians 2:16 tells us that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law; that is, by the works that he can do.
There is no contradiction at all when we examine the contexts. We are justified by faith but that faith must be alive (James 2). The Law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it (Matthew 19:16-17). Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith.

pagie · Mar 22, 2009

yes, I am convinced it is only by faith, by faith alone do we recieve grace, I believe there are results from faith.
works will resulf from faith, but faith will never be a result of works.
Rom 4:5 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Thaddaeus · Mar 22, 2009

Ro 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

you can call anybody lord, but to call upon the name of the Lord, is to acknowledge that you depend on Him for something, since the word saved is the result that we get when we call upon the name of the Lord, then we depend on Him for our salvation. if we can do it ourselves through our work then we wouldn't need to depend on Him. Plus another point here is if we call upon the Name of the Lord , then we need to make Him, just that, LORD,

why call me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say,
if you love me, keep my commandments.

faith without works is a dead faith we work because we are saved, we don't work to get saved

it doesn't say to call upon to the name the Lord and do good works, but call upon the name of the Lord and thy shall be saved. But keep in mind God knows your heart and knows if you mean business with Him, you need to depend on Jesus for your salvation nothing we can do outside what God had said for us to do . notice it doesn't say to confess our sins here but to confess Him lord , if we confess Him Lord with a true heart then we will also do as our Lord says and we make Him Lord

Ro 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;Ro 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.Ro 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Chopsui101 · Mar 23, 2009

Merryheart said:

So if I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart I can continue to live how I am living and I will still go to heaven?

Thaddaeus · Mar 23, 2009

Chopsui101 said:

aren't you reading any of these posting, if you call upon the name of the Lord you make Him LORD, if He is Lord you live the way He tells you to live not the way you want to, but you repent because you are saved , not to help you get saved , so no if you now have a Lord over you, you can't live the way you want to
Ro 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.Ro 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

easygoing · Mar 23, 2009

yes chopsui if you confess with your mouth the lord will hear it and acknowledge you as saved. If there is to be any lifechanges or whatever the lord has laid ahead for you then it is between you and him. The lord works through all of us differently.

roaringkitten · Mar 23, 2009

So if I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart I can continue to live how I am living and I will still go to heaven?

According to the Scriptures, Romans 4:5 should make it clear to you. But for what reason are you coming to Christ? I came to Christ because of my sinnership(Galatians 3:24), and trusted Him as my Savior. If man is in denial of their sins then why would they come to the Savior? I came to Christ because I cannot clean up my life without Him and I could never save myself because Im a sinner! It was NEVER my intention to come to Christ so I can sin as I please, but to let Him help me clean up my life! While our good works in Christ show genuine faith, they are NOT faith in itself! James speaks about being justified in the eyes of men(who cannot see man's heart) but God sees the heart(1st Samuel 16:7)! You can fool man, but you cannot fool God!

greenNnice · Mar 24, 2009

So if I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart I can continue to live how I am living and I will still go to heaven?-chopsuey

this verse I am about to tell you makes it painfully clear how easy it is to go to Heaven, the most popular and well known verse of all bible verses. Read it, please, and focus on the word, 'believe.' No, I'm no to the verse yet. Hang with me, bro

What does that word mean to you, chopsuey? 'Believe' What does it really mean to 'believe in Him.' Whatever it means, now I want you to scale it down to the least common thing of just believing in something, like, for instance your dog's love for you. Do you believe your dog loves you, chopsuey? Do you? Well, if you do, then you NOW know just how simple it is to know what it TAKES to get into Heaven and have eternal life. Chopsuey...just believe. The verse, of course, is John 3:16 .

Please let me know if I am not making sense, as I will further try to simply explain what I am trying to say, chopsuey, thank you. And, God bless you .

Chopsui101 · Mar 24, 2009

greenNnice said:

To believe is to have confidence in. You can believe in something or someone with out loving or liking them. I believe that the Lakers are gonna win the NBA championship...but doesn't mean I like the Lakers.

I think you can believe in God with out really willing to follow every teaching. I think that is a fundamental difference in SDA teachings. We, or many people in the church believe that even if you are saved at one period in your life you can still turn away and lose salvation. The final choice is made on your death bed...

wisdomseeker · Mar 25, 2009

If you really believe in him lol.Ask him
Love a friend in God

A_Daily_Struggle · Mar 25, 2009

Chopsui101 said:

Well yes, even the demons believe IN God but believing God is something different. If you believe God then you not only believe in God but you also believe what God says. I relate it to believing in God is knowing about Him. You can know everything about the Bible and still not truly believe God. So if believing in God is knowing then believing God would be following Him. If you truly believe someone or trust them, then you will follow what they say right? So believing God would mean following His ways and He clearly says "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40

So I would say the definition of faith is believing God rather than believing in God. So yes, faith is what saves you but if you truly have faith then you will want to love God and follow His ways.

roaringkitten · Mar 25, 2009

To further emphasize A_Daily_Struggle I will explain this verse:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

This is almost always the verse someone pulls up to try and justify that one is not saved by faith alone. Believing in one God saves no one. Only THROUGH the Son can anyone be saved!

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BY me” John 14:6

And to come to Christ, one must be CONVICTED of their sins(Romans 3:19-20, Romans 7:7, 1 John 1:10, Galatians 3:24)...Demons have HEAD KNOWLEDGE of God but they have strong hatred of Jesus. The very nature of them will lead multitudes into the lake of fire with them.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:1-2

Also see 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Abing · Mar 25, 2009

Ask HIM! ahhha i love that wisdomseeker.

chop chop! hehe, ask Him

dont ask us.. coz none of us will give you the right answer you need.
ask Him! haha, and He will find a way to tell you the answer (thats the part where people could then be involved, but first things first ask Him!)

you believe Him right?, you believe that Jesus died for our sins?
you believe that He moved mountains. that God let David defeat Goliath, God helped gideon defeat ten thousands of midianite with only 300 people..
that God flooded the earth and wiped everyone off the face of the planet and left 8 people? that a girl just touched Jesus' garments and she was healed?

i cant say, i believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins, but i wonder why .... this and that. in short, i dont believe at all.

anyways, what i was trying to say is...... gaaaah im not good with words. ask my God!

greenNnice · Mar 25, 2009

I think you can believe in God with out really willing to follow every teaching. I think that is a fundamental difference in SDA teachings. We, or many people in the church believe that even if you are saved at one period in your life you can still turn away and lose salvation. The final choice is made on your death bed...

The word, 'believe,' chopsuey, is so simple yet powerful of a word, to me, as I see it. I am not sure how you see it. But there is no easy way out for you if you are thinking you can 'believe in God' and go to Heaven. You can't ! You must believe what He did-dying on the cross for YOUR sins-really did happen. You must have that faith. The only way to get 'it,' is to bring Jesus Christ into your life, chopsuey, and see all that he will do for you IF you believe in Him.

God bless you, young man, and, I hope that makes it clearer still (I will gladly say more, if you respond, and, I thank you for responding

That I pray, taht you are made clear of what is on here, and, not of me, unless it is God's will. I pray you hear words on here that can change your life to a belief that the one true God did walk this Earth and will again come some day to take away YOU (if you believe) and all 'believers' to Heaven.

Note: sorry, I hear what you are saying about losing your salvation, but that, to me, is another topic. I also do not have wisdom at this time to tackle that subject, but it is a heady one and I just pray you believe in God now and never have to make that choice on your death bed

God's best to you, chopsuey,

greennnice.

Is the Bible like a bad credit card...all kinds of hiden fees??

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