Is the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden about ego death?
- Thread starter Kafziel
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• Gen 2:15-17 . .The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden
of Eden, to till it and tend it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
The first thing to point out is that in order for the warning to resonate in
Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood death in his
own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes construe it in
their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was primitive, i.e.
normal and natural rather than spiritual.
Death was common all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs,
and beasts so that it wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God
didn't have to take a moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it
was doubtless a common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw things born, he saw things grow to maturity, he saw things
gradually wither, he saw their life ebb away, and he saw them decay and
dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam
was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death and fully
understood that if he went autonomous, and tasted the forbidden fruit, that
his body would lose its perpetual youth and eventually dry up just as crisp
as an Autumn leaf.
_
• Gen 2:15-17 . .The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden
of Eden, to till it and tend it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
The first thing to point out is that in order for the warning to resonate in
Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood death in his
own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes construe it in
their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was primitive, i.e.
normal and natural rather than spiritual.
Death was common all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs,
and beasts so that it wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God
didn't have to take a moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it
was doubtless a common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw things born, he saw things grow to maturity, he saw things
gradually wither, he saw their life ebb away, and he saw them decay and
dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam
was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death and fully
understood that if he went autonomous, and tasted the forbidden fruit, that
his body would lose its perpetual youth and eventually dry up just as crisp
as an Autumn leaf.
_
It would be an 'ego death' only if the ego is that which satan imputed into our hearts when sin entered into us.
God's 'ego' is the Holy Spirit - ALL is GOOD for God does not, nor did HE ever, have a 'ego' as we do.
Here is God's 'ego' described to us in Philippians 2:5-11
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
God's 'ego' is the Holy Spirit - ALL is GOOD for God does not, nor did HE ever, have a 'ego' as we do.
Here is God's 'ego' described to us in Philippians 2:5-11
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
of the knowledge of good and evil was taken away we would all have the mind of Christ and think and act like him
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Genesis 1:27 KJV
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
we would all be like the son of God if we hadn’t taken the knowledge of good and evil into our minds and hearts . It made us like this
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
that’s not how God made us it’s what resulted in mans nature from the forbidden knowledge of good and evil were were made good like Gods children but Satan corrupted us with forbidden knowledge and caused our sin issue
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Genesis 1:27 KJV
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
we would all be like the son of God if we hadn’t taken the knowledge of good and evil into our minds and hearts . It made us like this
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
that’s not how God made us it’s what resulted in mans nature from the forbidden knowledge of good and evil were were made good like Gods children but Satan corrupted us with forbidden knowledge and caused our sin issue
.
• Gen 2:15-17 . . And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4) so we can be pretty sure that death includes more than just
cessation of viable existence.
When we take into consideration Gen 3:19, it becomes readily apparent that
one of death's effects upon Adam was the loss of his body's perpetual youth,
viz: Adam's disobedience sent him down the path of deterioration and in
time his body would become so dilapidated that it wouldn't be able to
continue.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality and it began to age; a condition easily
remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was denied access to it.
Mortality is a walking death, and it's slow, but very relentless. It's like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character The Terminator. It feels neither pain nor
pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until you are dead;
totally dead, like as in deceased.
NOTE: The tree of life isn't a source of life. According to Rev 22:2, it's
medicinal, i.e. a remedy for whatever ails you.
_
• Gen 2:15-17 . . And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4) so we can be pretty sure that death includes more than just
cessation of viable existence.
When we take into consideration Gen 3:19, it becomes readily apparent that
one of death's effects upon Adam was the loss of his body's perpetual youth,
viz: Adam's disobedience sent him down the path of deterioration and in
time his body would become so dilapidated that it wouldn't be able to
continue.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality and it began to age; a condition easily
remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was denied access to it.
Mortality is a walking death, and it's slow, but very relentless. It's like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character The Terminator. It feels neither pain nor
pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until you are dead;
totally dead, like as in deceased.
NOTE: The tree of life isn't a source of life. According to Rev 22:2, it's
medicinal, i.e. a remedy for whatever ails you.
_
That's basically what the OP is saying. @Kafziel
In order to get back to the state of being that Adam and Eve were in it would take a death of the ego. Is what the OP is suggesting.
When (if) the ego dies something has to take its place. The Holy Spirit being the best alternative. See @DavidTree response.
Matthew 18:3-4
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Alternative 2;
Matthew 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
In order to get back to the state of being that Adam and Eve were in it would take a death of the ego. Is what the OP is suggesting.
When (if) the ego dies something has to take its place. The Holy Spirit being the best alternative. See @DavidTree response.
Matthew 18:3-4
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Alternative 2;
Matthew 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.