Is the GREAT CITY in BABYLON, actually in Babylon, in Rev. 18?

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,252
4,197
113
#1
Revelation 18:10 (HCSB)
10 They will stand far off in fear of her torment, saying: Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the mighty city! For in a single hour your judgment has come.


It is called a Mighty City, or a Strong City, and even in the New Century Version calls it a Powerful City. BUT IS IT ACTUALLY IN BABYLON (IRAQ), or is it SOMEWHERE ELSE? A City that Mirrors the SINS of the Ancient Babylon.

I do not see anyway for it to be in IRAQ, as it is almost LANDLOCKED and NO SEA PORT; and there are verses in REV. 18 that refer to it as a GREAT SEA PORT.



Babylon the City was south of the Bagdad and a little was.
As you can see Iraq does not have a Sea Port, unless they retake Kuwait, but the population of Kuwait City, is 2.4 million, kinda small for the description in Rev. 18. In comparison, the MAJOR Sea Port in the USA, is New York City, and the Population, NOT COUNTING the Suburbs is 8.4 Million.


In today's sermon, my pastor was just starting to teach, Rev. 18. He mentioned that in his opinion, all of the reverences to Babylon, is referring to BABYLON (IRAQ). So I guess my Pastor will not agree with me, because I see there are some references that talk about the Strong City Babylon being a MAJOR SEA PORT. I think it would probably be more likely that it is New York City. Especially if JOHN in his vision, got a look at the Statue of Liberty in the HARBOR, he definitely would Recognize it as the Pagan Goddess with the spiked crown as the Babylonian Goddess, Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven. Some do not know that the Statue of Liberty was modeled by small statue of ISHTAR:

Revelation 18:2 (HCSB)
2 He cried in a mighty voice: It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen! She has become a dwelling for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, and a haunt for every unclean and despicable beast.


Revelation 18:15-19 (YLT)
15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, far off shall stand because of the fear of her torment, weeping, and sorrowing,
16 and saying, Woe, woe, the great city, that was arrayed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and gilded in gold, and precious stone, and pearls--because in one hour so much riches were made waste!
17 `And every shipmaster, and all the company upon the ships, and sailors,
and as many as work the sea, far off stood,

18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like to the great city?
19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Woe, woe, the great city! in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness--for in one hour was she made waste.






Could this have been the vision that John saw, New York City destroyed by Nukes:


 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#2
New York City fits nicely.
Center of world trade.
Center of world wealth.
The kings of the world meet at UN.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
113
#3
While it can fit to many today's cities or cities in history (and also in future), I think that the Relevation was about Rome or Jerusalem.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#4
I still think it has something to do with pagan rome, possibly even the vatican.

The world will not cry or weep if NY is destroyed, they will have a party and rejoice, because in their view, the great evil (the US, has taken a great fall)
 
#5
I’m no expert on Biblical end-times prophecy, but from what I do know, “Babylon the Great” seems to fit the Vatican much better than the U.S. (And perhaps the "whore of Babylon" specifically.) It is interesting in any case to note references such as these:

Revelation 17:
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


The above description does seem to fit the Vatican and the Papacy. The U.S., as much as they have been a more recent world power, has not been guilty of "the blood of the saints: and the "martyrs of Jesus." The Papacy most definitely is guilty of such, and many believers, long before Luther and the "Reformation", considered the Pope to sit in the seat of "Antichrist." And indeed, Popes do take for themselves the title "Vicarius Christi" - "Vicar of Christ", acting in the place of Christ. They have also had the title: Vicarius Filii Dei - representative of the Son of God. When considering the blasphemous and heretical things that Popes throughout history have said and done under such titles and all these titles signify, this is really quite significant and eye-opening. (Not to mention the Popes also take for themselves the title of "Holy Father", which belongs to God alone.

It's also interesting to note that the Catholic bishops and cardinals do wear purple and scarlet, and so many Catholic cathedrals and shrines are very much "decked with gold." Many have pointed this out, throughout history, so I consider these to be important points to think on.

Catholic Cardinals and Bishops.jpg

Portuguese Church.jpg Black Madonna - Einsiedeln.png St. John's Cathedral.JPG

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. - Revelation 17:18

Again, Popes have had absolute power over kings of the earth. Perhaps now they do not have that power, at least not outwardly and obviously, like they once did, but they may again. Still today though, world leaders meet with the Pope at the Vatican. This too is interesting to think of. The Pope is also a king of his own country, he is not simply some "religious leader" as many assume. (The Vatican officially became a sovereign state once again in February of 1929) And the Vatican, as a country, is most definitely involved in buying and selling worldly goods. It is significant I think that even though the Vatican is the smallest country on earth, it still has so much influence, wealth and power today.

Revelation 18:
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


Consider "the souls of men" in terms of the "merchandise" listed here. The Papacy/the Vatican has definitely attained many of its riches by claiming authority over the souls of men. Take indulgences as an example, the money earned from the sale of these indulgences was used to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. (Under Pope Leo X). The claim was that for a certain price, one could buy oneself or a loved one out of Purgatory - therefore ensuring their salvation. It doesn't get more horrific than this, buying and selling in regard to actual human souls. Again, this fits the Vatican/the Papacy/Rome far better than the U.S.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


I'm willing to continue learning on this subject, and by no means am I saying I have all the answers, but I do think there are some pretty significant correlations with what these verses describe and the Vatican.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,252
4,197
113
#6
I’m no expert on Biblical end-times prophecy, but from what I do know, “Babylon the Great” seems to fit the Vatican much better than the U.S. (And perhaps the "whore of Babylon" specifically.) It is interesting in any case to note references such as these:

Revelation 17:
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


The above description does seem to fit the Vatican and the Papacy. The U.S., as much as they have been a more recent world power, has not been guilty of "the blood of the saints: and the "martyrs of Jesus." The Papacy most definitely is guilty of such, and many believers, long before Luther and the "Reformation", considered the Pope to sit in the seat of "Antichrist." And indeed, Popes do take for themselves the title "Vicarius Christi" - "Vicar of Christ", acting in the place of Christ. They have also had the title: Vicarius Filii Dei - representative of the Son of God. When considering the blasphemous and heretical things that Popes throughout history have said and done under such titles and all these titles signify, this is really quite significant and eye-opening. (Not to mention the Popes also take for themselves the title of "Holy Father", which belongs to God alone.

It's also interesting to note that the Catholic bishops and cardinals do wear purple and scarlet, and so many Catholic cathedrals and shrines are very much "decked with gold." Many have pointed this out, throughout history, so I consider these to be important points to think on.

View attachment 185054

View attachment 185055 View attachment 185056 View attachment 185057

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. - Revelation 17:18

Again, Popes have had absolute power over kings of the earth. Perhaps now they do not have that power, at least not outwardly and obviously, like they once did, but they may again. Still today though, world leaders meet with the Pope at the Vatican. This too is interesting to think of. The Pope is also a king of his own country, he is not simply some "religious leader" as many assume. (The Vatican officially became a sovereign state once again in February of 1929) And the Vatican, as a country, is most definitely involved in buying and selling worldly goods. It is significant I think that even though the Vatican is the smallest country on earth, it still has so much influence, wealth and power today.

Revelation 18:
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


Consider "the souls of men" in terms of the "merchandise" listed here. The Papacy/the Vatican has definitely attained many of its riches by claiming authority over the souls of men. Take indulgences as an example, the money earned from the sale of these indulgences was used to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. (Under Pope Leo X). The claim was that for a certain price, one could buy oneself or a loved one out of Purgatory - therefore ensuring their salvation. It doesn't get more horrific than this, buying and selling in regard to actual human souls. Again, this fits the Vatican/the Papacy/Rome far better than the U.S.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


I'm willing to continue learning on this subject, and by no means am I saying I have all the answers, but I do think there are some pretty significant correlations with what these verses describe and the Vatican.

You forgot one thing, ROME is NOT a SEAPORT.


Revelation 18:14-19 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth,
for in a single hour she was destroyed.


 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#7
It has nothing to do with land mass but people's hearts. It is God's kingdom vs other worldly kingdoms. God's kingdom is also figuratively called Jerusalem and it is people who know the truth from every tribe/nation, therefore Babylon is the opposite, a people with truth in them- and the kingdom of God will reign on the earth forever.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
#8
it can represent Rome but she is only one of the strange women. We do not put all the eggs in one basket.

The great city using architect as a metaphor to represent a woman is the church or bride of Christ made up of Jew and Gentile alike.

The strange woman representing all the kingdoms of this world under the influence of the god of this world will become the kingdoms of God in the new heavens and earth

Revelation 11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Proverbs 2:16
To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;

Judges 11:2And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman.

Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:

Proverbs 5:2 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#9
You forgot one thing, ROME is NOT a SEAPORT.


Revelation 18:14-19 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth,
for in a single hour she was destroyed.


The destruction of ny while having an impact on economy, will not kills the us economy,
The church rome has enough power and money to be considerd a superpower herself, she influences most of the world. She even has her own embassadores,

I am quite sure many cities wouod be a better fit that NY. The way the world is going, NY may not even be around in that time,
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,252
4,197
113
#10
How far is Rome from the NEAREST DEEP WATER SEAPORT?


Revelation 18:14-19 (HCSB)
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed!
And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off


NOT HERE:


NOT HERE:


NOT HERE:


Here is the Beach closest to ROME, Fiumicino Beach, NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT THERE ALSO:



There appears to be NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT on the West side of Italy, any where NEAR ROME. So I have to rule out ROME entirely as the SEAPORT in Revelation 18, as the CITY being prophesied.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#11
How far is Rome from the NEAREST DEEP WATER SEAPORT?


Revelation 18:14-19 (HCSB)
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed!
And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off


NOT HERE:


NOT HERE:


NOT HERE:


Here is the Beach closest to ROME, Fiumicino Beach, NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT THERE ALSO:



There appears to be NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT on the West side of Italy, any where NEAR ROME. So I have to rule out ROME entirely as the SEAPORT in Revelation 18, as the CITY being prophesied.
I will grant you that, Yet rome still has more that FIT wiith babylon that any city in the United States.

again, NO ONE will cry when any city in the US is destroyed, (right now Europe is trying its best to devalue the US dollar so it is not so dependent on the US. Because the world hates us.

So I have to rule out ANY US City.

of course, We will not know until it happens. All we can do is speculate. not worth really arguing over.
 
#12
You forgot one thing, ROME is NOT a SEAPORT.


Revelation 18:14-19 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth,
for in a single hour she was destroyed.


Italy is accessible by sea. Trade can still be done through that means.

In any case, as I said, it is my opinion that Revelation 17 & 18 fit the Papacy/the Vatican/Rome far better than they fit the U.S.

The United States is not guilty of killing hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Christians as the Papacy is. Also the United States is not a city.
 

Freesoul

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2014
5
3
3
#13
Hello Babylon as mentioned in the Bible and related to the Endtimes is this. Its the World System. The physical representation of the system is several cities around the world with London, New York, Paris, Brussels being some of them. The system is not only financial, it is also the "mind" of the world, the majority mind, it is also the "way" of the world. The majority way. This system will fall completely in 1 Hour. It will be destroyed by an evil and more sinister system that will not last much time at all. God will use Satan to destroy Satans own works
 
#14
Hello Babylon as mentioned in the Bible and related to the Endtimes is this. Its the World System. The physical representation of the system is several cities around the world with London, New York, Paris, Brussels being some of them. The system is not only financial, it is also the "mind" of the world, the majority mind, it is also the "way" of the world. The majority way. This system will fall completely in 1 Hour. It will be destroyed by an evil and more sinister system that will not last much time at all. God will use Satan to destroy Satans own works
That may be, and yet, it does seem to have one specific location.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#15
I think we have to realize what Babylon represented in Johns day, Since he wrote it and used a term he knew, we whould interpret it as he would.

Babylon represented the pagan system of religion, which was founded in babylon, and spread throughout the world. It was represented by Greek mythology as well as roman mythology, At the time of righting Ceasar was the "Pontifus maximus" (high Priest) of this babylonian system

The mother of harlots is the mother of this system, a system which is a counterfeit system to the christian system. and its worse enemy because it has always been, and still is, very powerful all over the world.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,252
4,197
113
#16
I will grant you that, Yet rome still has more that FIT with Babylon that any city in the United States.

again, NO ONE will cry when any city in the US is destroyed, (right now Europe is trying its best to devalue the US dollar so it is not so dependent on the US. Because the world hates us.

So I have to rule out ANY US City.

of course, We will not know until it happens. All we can do is speculate. not worth really arguing over.

You forget, the Statue of Liberty, and in JOHN's Vision, he would have recognized it as: The Pagan Goddess from Babylon, the supposed Queen of Heaven, Ishtar. Sea my POST #1. This CITY, is not about Religion, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH.


Revelation 18:3 (HCSB)
3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her sexual immorality, which brings wrath. The kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from her excessive luxury.

NOTICE: How can that be ROME ? ? ?

Revelation 18:7 (HCSB)
7 As much as she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, give her that much torment and grief, for she says in her heart, “I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never see grief.”

NOTICE: I still do not see it as ROME.

Revelation 18:9 (HCSB)
9 The kings of the earth who have committed sexual immorality and lived luxuriously with her will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her burning.

NOTICE: How are the Kings of the EARTH getting RICH off of ROME?

Revelation 18:11 (HCSB)
11 The merchants of the earth will also weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their merchandise any longer

NOTICE: She supplies the Major part of the Merchandise sold everywhere in the world.

Revelation 18:14-18 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”

NOTICE: Where are all the labels, MAKE IN ROME, in your home? Now MADE IN THE USA, with President Donald Trump, will be in almost every Country in the world.

Revelation 18:19 (HCSB)
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth, for in a single hour she was destroyed.


NOTICE: ALL WHO HAVE CARGO SHIPS, will sail from HER.

Revelation 18:22 (HCSB)
22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters will never be heard in you again; no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again; the sound of a mill will never be heard in you again;

NOTICE: Where are the Craftsman's labels, Made in ROME? It does not sound like ROME to me.










Let's put it this way. I do not ever want to go on a trip to New York City.
 
#17
You forget, the Statue of Liberty, and in JOHN's Vision, he would have recognized it as: The Pagan Goddess from Babylon, the supposed Queen of Heaven, Ishtar. Sea my POST #1. This CITY, is not about Religion, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH.


Revelation 18:3 (HCSB)
3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her sexual immorality, which brings wrath. The kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from her excessive luxury.

NOTICE: How can that be ROME ? ? ?

Revelation 18:7 (HCSB)
7 As much as she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, give her that much torment and grief, for she says in her heart, “I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never see grief.”

NOTICE: I still do not see it as ROME.

Revelation 18:9 (HCSB)
9 The kings of the earth who have committed sexual immorality and lived luxuriously with her will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her burning.

NOTICE: How are the Kings of the EARTH getting RICH off of ROME?

Revelation 18:11 (HCSB)
11 The merchants of the earth will also weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their merchandise any longer

NOTICE: She supplies the Major part of the Merchandise sold everywhere in the world.

Revelation 18:14-18 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”

NOTICE: Where are all the labels, MAKE IN ROME, in your home? Now MADE IN THE USA, with President Donald Trump, will be in almost every Country in the world.

Revelation 18:19 (HCSB)
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth, for in a single hour she was destroyed.


NOTICE: ALL WHO HAVE CARGO SHIPS, will sail from HER.

Revelation 18:22 (HCSB)
22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters will never be heard in you again; no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again; the sound of a mill will never be heard in you again;

NOTICE: Where are the Craftsman's labels, Made in ROME? It does not sound like ROME to me.










Let's put it this way. I do not ever want to go on a trip to New York City.
I honestly do not believe Revelation 17 & 18 apply to New York. New York is not guilty of killing hundreds of thousands of Christians.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#18
You forget, the Statue of Liberty, and in JOHN's Vision, he would have recognized it as: The Pagan Goddess from Babylon, the supposed Queen of Heaven, Ishtar. Sea my POST #1.
That is an assumption, And I do not like to base my beliefs based on assumptions.
This CITY, is not about Religion, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH.
Babylon has always represented religion, In the OT, and in Johns day, it was representative of satans fake religion.


Revelation 18:3 (HCSB)
3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her sexual immorality, which brings wrath. The kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from her excessive luxury.

NOTICE: How can that be ROME ? ? ?

Revelation 18:7 (HCSB)
7 As much as she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, give her that much torment and grief, for she says in her heart, “I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never see grief.”

NOTICE: I still do not see it as ROME.

Revelation 18:9 (HCSB)
9 The kings of the earth who have committed sexual immorality and lived luxuriously with her will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her burning.

NOTICE: How are the Kings of the EARTH getting RICH off of ROME?

Revelation 18:11 (HCSB)
11 The merchants of the earth will also weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their merchandise any longer

NOTICE: She supplies the Major part of the Merchandise sold everywhere in the world.

Revelation 18:14-18 (HCSB)
14 The fruit you craved has left you. All your splendid and glamorous things are gone; they will never find them again.
15 The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying: Woe, woe, the great city, dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls,
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”

NOTICE: Where are all the labels, MAKE IN ROME, in your home? Now MADE IN THE USA, with President Donald Trump, will be in almost every Country in the world.

Revelation 18:19 (HCSB)
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth, for in a single hour she was destroyed.


NOTICE: ALL WHO HAVE CARGO SHIPS, will sail from HER.

Revelation 18:22 (HCSB)
22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters will never be heard in you again; no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again; the sound of a mill will never be heard in you again;

NOTICE: Where are the Craftsman's labels, Made in ROME? It does not sound like ROME to me.

Let's put it this way. I do not ever want to go on a trip to New York City.
1. I have been to NY city, I am also under God, so I am not afraid to do anything

as for the harlot

these are the 7 points I see taken from revelation

Who is the harlot?

1. Bears the representation of a harlot ( rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16. It claimed to be christs bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.

2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. rev 17 : 2. 5. Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.

3. the system is a leader in political affairs ( rev 17:3 ) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.

4 the system has become very rich and influential ( rev 17: 4)

5. The system represents the stage of development of Christendom that was hithertoo unrevieled ( rev 17: 5) in that it was called the " mystery "

6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6 )

7. the system is an organized system of worldwide scope ( rev 17 : 15)

8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened ( rev 17: 16 - 17 )
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,136
17,526
113
#19
as for NY and how it relates to my list

Who is the harlot?

1. Bears the representation of a harlot ( rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16. It claimed to be christs bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.


The city does not represent a religious system, thus can not be seen as a spiritual harlot.

2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. rev 17 : 2. 5. Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.


same, NY does not represent any spiritual entity, and is not a leader in ecclesiastical affairs.

3. the system is a leader in political affairs ( rev 17:3 ) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.


You could possibly say the UN is there so it fits. But the UN is just a place where political leaders meet, it is not in itself a leader in political affairs. If anything, that would be Washington DC, But that is not even close. Washington will never control the beast, who will come from rome.

4 the system has become very rich and influential ( rev 17: 4)


again, NY could be considered rich, but by itself would not be considered influential in world affairs.. as a seperate city.

5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled ( rev 17: 5) in that it was called the " mystery "


again, A harlot is a false wife, and as a religious system who claims to be the true bride of God. NY does not fit in any way.

6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6 )


When has NY been seen worldwide as a great persecutor of the saints? NY has a LARGE population of many religions, Christian and non, Last I have seen, there is no persecuation there as there is an many other parts of the world. and she definately would not be seen as having been a persecutor of christianity.

7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope ( rev 17 : 15)


NY is a city, not a system, does not fit.

8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened ( rev 17: 16 - 17 )


Again, If NY is destroyed, the world will celebrate and have massive parties, because the great evil (in their view, capitolism) has been destroyed. oh wait, has it? NY is just one great city.. so again, it does not fit either way.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,252
4,197
113
#20
I honestly do not believe Revelation 17 & 18 apply to New York. New York is not guilty of killing hundreds of thousands of Christians.
Now you misunderstood me. This is in the FINAL years of the TRIBULATION PERIOD, when THE False Worship System with the unholy trinity is being worshiped world wide. That is when the Martyred Tribulations SAINTS will be BEHEADED for not taking the Mark of the Beast, signifying they will worship the Antichrist. Most of the world will be under his control. So what will happen if the USA, REFUSES to submit to the Antichrist. So we are NOT TALKING about the False Religion worshiping the Antichrist, BABYLON. We are TALKING about ONE CITY THAT CONTROLS, MOST OF THE WORLD'S COMMERCE. A MEGA SEAPORT, that is causing all kinds of Merchants world wide to mourn her destruction. SO YES, they are Beheading the Tribulation Saints, world wide. BUT the focus on those verses in Chapter 18, is NOT the false worship of the Antichrist world wide (Babylon), but rather the one CITY that makes the all RICH (The Mighty City of Babylon).