Is the Hebrew word Torah correctly translated as law?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
The Hebrew word Torah is a very complicated word to translate into English. It is usually translated as law, and although it is the best English word to explain it, the word law is very inadequate.

The root of the word Torah is derived from a root word meaning to throw. It is used in archery, as throwing an arrow to hit a target. The Hebrew word torah means a teaching of the law that hits the target of God’s instructions to us. It is used in the sense of a Father teaching his children. There is the understanding that love is a part of the instructions, unlike the word law.

Law is a set of rules from a government binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law is broken with the penalty of punishment or it is not broken. It is not like the Torah. When we break God’s law, the torah, we have Christ who will forgive us when we repent and go to Him.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,164
4,367
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#2
Law is a set of rules from a government binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law is broken with the penalty of punishment or it is not broken. It is not like the Torah. When we break God’s law, the torah, we have Christ who will forgive us when we repent and go to Him.
Well, if we are going by the Law of the 1st Covenant:

James 2:10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew, Chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


And, yes, if we repent and ask forgiveness, He is faithful to do so......but we of the New Covenant Grace are NOT bound by the Law of the 1st Covenant. Jesus fulfilled that Law! We are bound by the New Covenant Law of FAITH as described by the Apostle Paul in numerous Scriptures. And, yes, if we break that Law/the Commandments of Jesus, He is STILL faithful to forgive us if we repent and ask for forgiveness.

Those who in todays world choose to live by the Law of the 1st Covenant will die in their sins, and there will be no forgiveness. They will NOT be grafted back into the "Vine" spoken of in Romans. This Truth is revealed in Romans, and that one Verse is the (IMO) most ignored Verse in all of Scripture.

Romans 10:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
1,353
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#3
Well, if we are going by the Law of the 1st Covenant:

James 2:10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew, Chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And, yes, if we repent and ask forgiveness, He is faithful to do so......but we of the New Covenant Grace are NOT bound by the Law of the 1st Covenant. Jesus fulfilled that Law! We are bound by the New Covenant Law of FAITH as described by the Apostle Paul in numerous Scriptures. And, yes, if we break that Law/the Commandments of Jesus, He is STILL faithful to forgive us if we repent and ask for forgiveness.

Those who in todays world choose to live by the Law of the 1st Covenant will die in their sins, and there will be no forgiveness. They will NOT be grafted back into the "Vine" spoken of in Romans. This Truth is revealed in Romans, and that one Verse is the (IMO) most ignored Verse in all of Scripture.

Romans 10:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
You are speaking about reactions to the word law, my post is only about the meaning of Torah, as that is the original word that is translated as law. The reactions to law could be affected by knowing that it is Torah scripture speaks of, not law in the sense of a government law, but it would have nothing to do with using the law as a means of having the Lord forgive us.

It is only atheist who believe they are good enough for salvation, Christians are saved through faith in Christ. Atheist don't last long on this site.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
35,008
12,578
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#4
The word "Torah" in Hebrew is derived from the root ירה, which in the hif'il conjugation means 'to guide' or 'to teach' (cf. Lev 10:11 ). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction;" the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
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#5
There is a huge difference between obeying an impersonal law, as obeying a Torah. Law is hard and inflexible, Torah is from a loving Father telling us the best way to live because He loves us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,550
6,200
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#6
The Hebrew word Torah is a very complicated word to translate into English.
Not really. Torah means direction, instruction, or law. All three are applicable. Also the first five books of the Bible (the Torah) are more than just laws.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,721
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#7
Does a better understanding of the word, "torah," change our interpretation of the New Testament revalation regarding our relationship to the torah?

Not even a little. We aren't under it. Period.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
997
873
93
#8
Jesus [the Christ] fulfilled the Torah and the Tanakh.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
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#9
I have often read posts stating we are not under the law. Scripture tells us this is so, if we were under the law we would have to be perfect to be saved, but we are under grace instead for we are forgiven for breaking the law.

Many say that scripture does not mean that, but that we need never look to the law to guide us in our state of being free of sin. They believe that we can discount any scripture that has guidance for us if that guidance tells us of the law. All scripture, actually, is truth, the Lord did not give us those scriptures for us to deny the truth of them because we are under grace, not law.

Also, many posts say that because Christ fulfilled the law, we are to know it is over and we can ignore anything the Lord tells us if the Lord mentions law. Again, people say scripture is to be ignored.

Christ fulfilled everything we are told about law, and we are forgiven for breaking law through Christ. It is also truth that all scripture is given for our benefit, it is not truth that scripture tells us to ignore anything of scripture including scripture giving us the law.

The 119th Psalm is the longest of all the Psalms, and it is a thorough explanation of law, what it is, and what it means to us, and how we are to think of it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,721
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#10
Again, people say scripture is to be ignored.
Quote even ONE person who says that Scripture is to be ignored.

If you can't quote anyone who says that, then you invented it, which makes you a liar.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
1,353
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#11
I have called the statement you made: "we are not under it, period" in regard to the law ignoring the statements scripture makes that we are to listen to the law a statement of yours that ignores listening to the law. Paul tells us that God "forbid" when people say these things about the law and explains the law as good.

You often quote scripture as something to believe in, would you explain? You are against my understanding of scripture and my understanding is that we are not under the law for salvation but we are to listen to the law and through Christ, to try our best to follow it. You say you are opposed to that position of mine, please tell me why you find me wrong.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,567
251
83
#12
You are speaking about reactions to the word law, my post is only about the meaning of Torah, as that is the original word that is translated as law. The reactions to law could be affected by knowing that it is Torah scripture speaks of, not law in the sense of a government law, but it would have nothing to do with using the law as a means of having the Lord forgive us.

It is only atheist who believe they are good enough for salvation, Christians are saved through faith in Christ. Atheist don't last long on this site.
I agree that the word Law is not sufficient at describing the Torah, But God is a God of order and rules the universe with order. Using order He has rules, laws, and principles that can not be broken in order for the perfect order to remain. When Satan rebelled, he broke the first law, "love God with all your heart", and if God just had grace, and no action the whole universe would have been affected by the rebellion. The laws that God has are laws of love, and for the Good of the universe. If we want to be part of the universe of love we need to obey the laws that are set in place. Love is the motivation, so we are free to rebel but that will not happen again because the results are seen in this world today. The laws that God gives us to obey are for our own good and they are what keeps the world in an order of perfect love. God is King and as a king He has laws to keep things in order. like our government which have laws to protect the people, if you murder you are locked up, God has laws that are perfect.

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mar_12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


 

Beez

Senior Member
Nov 27, 2017
463
83
28
#13
It continuously amazes me -- the profound hatred for the Law. So many not only hate it, but it angers them so deeply that they get out of control with that hatred so much that their anger completely overwhelms their professed love for its Writer, the Word! He did not give it because He wanted to harass, to boss us around, to demand the unreasonable; He gave it to us to show us the way out of a miserable life as we proceed toward an eternal life with Him that is beyond what we can even imagine now.

One thing that people can use to more properly use and educate themselves regarding the words "Law" and "law" is to first recognize that they are not the same thing in the Scriptures. The best Bibles distinguish between "Law" and "law." "Law" is G_D's Torah, His words that give us the very plain "secret" to knowing which meaning the word intends. "Law" is His Word. But "law" is anyone else's commands. "Law" carries the significance of His Own instructions for life now and in eternity. But "law" carries no eternal weight at all.
So far, the most consistent English translation of these words that I have found is the NASB, but the last time I looked, it is not perfect. Occasionally, when the NASB does not follow this idea, it is an error, but sometimes, the translator is not fully satisfied that they are sure enough to make it a final translation. I would suggest that they are 98% correct in regard to this issue.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,567
251
83
#14
It continuously amazes me -- the profound hatred for the Law. So many not only hate it, but it angers them so deeply that they get out of control with that hatred so much that their anger completely overwhelms their professed love for its Writer, the Word! He did not give it because He wanted to harass, to boss us around, to demand the unreasonable; He gave it to us to show us the way out of a miserable life as we proceed toward an eternal life with Him that is beyond what we can even imagine now.

One thing that people can use to more properly use and educate themselves regarding the words "Law" and "law" is to first recognize that they are not the same thing in the Scriptures. The best Bibles distinguish between "Law" and "law." "Law" is G_D's Torah, His words that give us the very plain "secret" to knowing which meaning the word intends. "Law" is His Word. But "law" is anyone else's commands. "Law" carries the significance of His Own instructions for life now and in eternity. But "law" carries no eternal weight at all.
So far, the most consistent English translation of these words that I have found is the NASB, but the last time I looked, it is not perfect. Occasionally, when the NASB does not follow this idea, it is an error, but sometimes, the translator is not fully satisfied that they are sure enough to make it a final translation. I would suggest that they are 98% correct in regard to this issue.
The Law is so hated that many try to explain it away, and say that Jesus kept the Law perfectly so we don't need to. Jesus is our example and he kept the Law because He is perfect. We sin when we transgress the Law and Jesus died for our sins. Do we continue in sin because Jesus has paid the price? do we transgress the Law because Jesus obeyed it perfectly to pay our debt.
Moses gave the Law as God inspired him, they came from God. The Laws are given in a way that help us to obey, The health Laws, the ceremonial Laws, the Law of liberty/ Royal Law, the political Laws. The only Laws that i do not see a need to obey today are the ceremonial Laws because they have been fulfilled by Christ, (Heb 9,10).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,721
9,099
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#15
I have called the statement you made: "we are not under it, period" in regard to the law ignoring the statements scripture makes that we are to listen to the law a statement of yours that ignores listening to the law. Paul tells us that God "forbid" when people say these things about the law and explains the law as good.

You often quote scripture as something to believe in, would you explain? You are against my understanding of scripture and my understanding is that we are not under the law for salvation but we are to listen to the law and through Christ, to try our best to follow it. You say you are opposed to that position of mine, please tell me why you find me wrong.
You are wrong when you claim, "People say scripture is to be ignored".

If you think you are right, then you must provide exact quotations of people... any people (on this forum) claiming that Scripture is to be ignored. No paraphrases, no misinterpretations, just their words, verbatim.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
1,353
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#16
You are wrong when you claim, "People say scripture is to be ignored".

If you think you are right, then you must provide exact quotations of people... any people (on this forum) claiming that Scripture is to be ignored. No paraphrases, no misinterpretations, just their words, verbatim.
It seems to me that people speaking against the law as being for our good are ignoring many scriptures that explains the law as how the 119th psalm explains it.

I have read many posts saying "we are not under law, period". It is true that only grace, not law, saves us, but that does not mean, (as is so often implied) that we are not to know the law as pertaining to us or directing us.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,721
9,099
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#17
It seems to me that people speaking against the law as being for our good are ignoring many scriptures that explains the law as how the 119th psalm explains it.
Who is "speaking against the law"? You need to distinguish between their words and your thoughts about their words. Don't claim "People say to ignore the scriptures" when those aren't their exact words.

I have read many posts saying "we are not under law, period". It is true that only grace, not law, saves us, but that does not mean, (as is so often implied) that we are not to know the law as pertaining to us or directing us.
Again, you are imposing your thoughts on the words of others. When I wrote, "We are not under law, period," I did not say that we are not to know the law. Please, STOP reading your thoughts into my words. Just take my words as they are written, and if you don't understand, then ask.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
11,245
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#18
JOHN 5:46.
For had you believed Moses, you would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
1,353
113
#19
The Hebrew word Torah is a very complicated word to translate into English. It is usually translated as law, and although it is the best English word to explain it, the word law is very inadequate.

The root of the word Torah is derived from a root word meaning to throw. It is used in archery, as throwing an arrow to hit a target. The Hebrew word torah means a teaching of the law that hits the target of God’s instructions to us. It is used in the sense of a Father teaching his children. There is the understanding that love is a part of the instructions, unlike the word law.

Law is a set of rules from a government binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law is broken with the penalty of punishment or it is not broken. It is not like the Torah. When we break God’s law, the torah, we have Christ who will forgive us when we repent and go to Him.
Who is "speaking against the law"? You need to distinguish between their words and your thoughts about their words. Don't claim "People say to ignore the scriptures" when those aren't their exact words.


Again, you are imposing your thoughts on the words of others. When I wrote, "We are not under law, period," I did not say that we are not to know the law. Please, STOP reading your thoughts into my words. Just take my words as they are written, and if you don't understand, then ask.
m If you meant to qualify "we are not under the law, period" then why in the world would you not say so? You are always going on about exact words, please listen to yourself.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#20
Quote even ONE person who says that Scripture is to be ignored.

If you can't quote anyone who says that, then you invented it, which makes you a liar.
She has a bad habit of doing that, then refusing to even admit it

she loves to push the law, yet breaks the very law she pushes,