Is the New Covenant for Israel only?

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I think God lays down something different for each person's life. for example some are called to be ennuchs and never marry like the Apostle Paul while others are allowed to marry and raise a family like the other Apostles. That is why a personal and intimate relationship with God is so important so that we do not try and live someone else's life but the life God has planned for us according to the laws He has placed on our hearts :)
God doesn't forbid marriage.
that's a doctrine of devils.

Jesus and Paul both said if a man can do kingdom work unmarried he'll likely be happier and more successful - makes sense, right?

how can you be off to Macedonia every other month when your wife is home alone in Japan?

we make our decisions prayerfully based on the morality and instructions laid out in God's Word, and He works providentially to make it all work for our good.

i think some folks check for robins on their windowsills, or 4 blue volkswagens in a row, or livershivers as signs that God wants them to marry BillyBob or go to work at the chocolate factory.

when maybe its a matter of living as we're told and making the best choices possible and living with the consequences. God works all things for our good.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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[/color]

Daniel 9 - fulfilled:

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9 unfulfilled.

end of 69th week. Messiah cut of (literally fulfilled to the day)

after 69th week.


the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

fulfilled 70 AD (36 years past week 69the week so already a gap between 69th and 70th week)

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Still happening today almost 2000 years past 69th week

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

He is the prince who is to come. Who is come out of th epeople who destroyed the city and sanctuary in 70 AD

Has not happened yet


and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make
it desolate,

Also spoken of By jesus, during the end time when great tribulation will begin (Jesus states this great tribulation period will immediately follow this event, and warned all who are on earth)

Has not happened yet

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Signified Christ return to the earth, to consumate what was determined to be poured out on the desolate (the final great battle before Christ assumes his throne. and an "end of sin" has happened to Daniels people as prophesied. as they have repented and recieved her king.

Has not happened yet.

ps. Still love ya sis!
 
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yaright

Guest
Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


Given that Jeremiah states and the author of Hebrews quotes that this covenant is with the houses of Israel and Judah, and that the New Covenant is never applied to Gentiles in any passage of the New Testament (as far as I can think of off the top of my head), is the New Covenant only for Israel? The only passage I can think of right now where Gentiles and the New Covenant have any interaction is 1 Corinthians 11, when Paul instructs Gentiles on the proper observance of the Lord's Supper. Also, Paul is clear in Galatians 3 that Gentiles are reconciled to God on the basis of God's promises to Abraham in Genesis 12 and 22, not through the Mosaic covenant.
It can be said without doubt that Jesus came to claim what was once separated within Israel. Rather than two authorities concerning the flesh and spirit of a man, Jesus will place both under His authority. The obedience of God's people is spoken of by a prophet named Jacob. That prophet spoke the language of creation in its proper form. Jesus is known as a lion, a lion's whelp. He is called by one house; The Lion of Judah. There are two parts to Israel which they cannot see, just like there are two parts to each of us according to law and prophecy. In the teaching of John 10;22 thru 23, we are clearly shown that we are His, and under His authority. In the teaching found in the book of Galations, you will find that because we are chosen, and in His hand, that we become Jews by nature, which God Himself desired and desires from the beginning. Those of God's chosen people who did the law according to the flesh (the two parts), were cut off because they did not seek Him for the things which are hidden from the flesh; the spirit within. The second part spoken of in both law and prophecy....,but only that part which is born of God (the child of God) can be redeemed
 
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Do you see isreal in its nation praising Christ and the God that saved them? Have you ever> I have not. If you know something I don't know please share.
Describe to me what it would look like to see "israel" in its nation praising Christ?

What kind of numbers are we talking and what criteria must these special people fulfill to be called Israel.

In other words, if we dont know who Israel is (we cant RECOGNIZE them), how will you know when these prophecies are fulfilled?

If you know something I don't know please share.

All I know is this:

(1 Peter 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(1 Peter 2:10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


Natural Isreal is whoever is born of the flesh from the 12 sons of Jacob. Also known as Israel.
Which is impossible for us humans to determine, so how will you know when they repent?

if "All Israel" (Natural born sons of Jacob) was living in Jerusalem and had repented and received her Messiah. And God was their God and he had returned them to her city. There would be no dome of the rock on the temple mount. Not to mention I odubt they would all fit in jerusalem.
Numbers for "all israel"....please be precise. 5,000?

.....5 million?

And whats wrong with having a dome on temple mount? Who cares about mud and brick? The temple of God is within us.

(2 Corinthians 6:16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That was never a part of the covenant promise given to Israel. The promise was reigning on earth, with king messiah on his throne in Jerusalem. Heaven is not Jerusalem.
Jesus disagrees.

(John 18:36) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus never talked about returning to rule from Jerusalem. His Kingdom is spiritual, not of earthly dominion.

They might be. But Paul did not say a remnant would be saved, He said ALL ISRAEL will be saved.
How many peeps in all israel? Ball-park figure?

I was never promised a king. I was promised a savior. David was promised a king, to sit on his throne in jerusalem And be given a kingdom. to that those who have sought to opress his people will no longer oppress them again. And he will give his people (natural jews) a land in which to live, and a rest (since God did not let him build him a house for him).
Is Jesus your King? It's either yes or no.

Did He establish a Kingdom already?

Since we dont know who natural Jews are then you will never know when these promises will be fulfilled. Unless you know how to recognise a natural jew? Do you?

If you look at all the prophesies concerning "king messiah" in the OT you will find that only a few have been fulfilled.
This is awful. I'm sorry but, we accept Christ as Messiah because He fulfilled ALL the prophets and the Law.

(Matthew 11:13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Did the prophets prophesie 2000 years AFTER John or UNTIL John, like Jesus said?

Listen to your KING:

(Luke 24:44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
(Luke 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(Luke 24:46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(Luke 24:47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
(Luke 24:48) And ye are witnesses of these things.
(Luke 24:49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


ALL FULFILLED. All the promises gentle friend. Believe IT IS FINISHED.

The davidic covenant has not been fulfilled. This is what the people in jerusalem and surrounding areas thought Christ came to do. But he did not do this. It was not his plan at the time. He had to save all mankind first.
The only earthly kingdom coming is a communist world superstate run by talmudists and Christian zionists and organized by freemasonry and proponents of BRITISH ISRAEL. And the god of this world is willl be at the top of the pyramid. Get away from dispensationalism quickly friend.

Since the jews rejected him, He gave his chuch to the gentiles through Paul. Since then. this "time of the gentiles" has been in operation. Yet paul says when this time is complete. All Israel will be saved. This time has not been completed yet. The church is still gentile with a few remnant Israel who have come to Christ.
Whats the difference in numbers between remnant Israel and ALL Israel. And how do you know there is 'a few' remnant when you dont know who they are?
 
Aug 12, 2010
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Daniel 9 unfulfilled.

end of 69th week. Messiah cut of (literally fulfilled to the day)

after 69th week.


the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

fulfilled 70 AD (36 years past week 69the week so already a gap between 69th and 70th week)

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Still happening today almost 2000 years past 69th week
Right so all of that is fulfilled

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

He is the prince who is to come. Who is come out of th epeople who destroyed the city and sanctuary in 70 AD

Has not happened yet
Huh? Why hasnt that happened yet?

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

Also spoken of By jesus, during the end time when great tribulation will begin (Jesus states this great tribulation period will immediately follow this event, and warned all who are on earth)

Has not happened yet
Why do you say this is about the endtime?

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Signified Christ return to the earth, to consumate what was determined to be poured out on the desolate (the final great battle before Christ assumes his throne. and an "end of sin" has happened to Daniels people as prophesied. as they have repented and recieved her king.

Has not happened yet.
Erm...you are carrying out some serious poetic license here man. the verse just says...

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Clearly still talking about the end of the TEMPLE age.
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
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All truth is Parallel. There is a natural I srael and a spiritual Israel. To those who have accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour, they are the spiritual Israel
Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. Depending on where it is being quoted, its the same type of speech used when God speaks about Israel.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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All truth is Parallel. There is a natural I srael and a spiritual Israel. To those who have accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour, they are the spiritual Israel
Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. Depending on where it is being quoted, its the same type of speech used when God speaks about Israel.

With the exception of romans 11. Where this type of language is not used. And gentile and jew are separated.
 
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With the exception of romans 11. Where this type of language is not used. And gentile and jew are separated.
Friend, Romans 11 is simply an encouraging word to the Church that ALL are welcome to press into the New Covenant regardless of which group you are in. Even the Jews of that time had some among them who came to Messiah even though the nation in general rejected Jesus.

You are building WAY too much doctrine on "All Israel will be saved".

Even if it does mean all those descended from natural House of Israel will have eternal spiritual salvation you cant prove that this has not already happened.

And you have no way to know if it happens in the future.

My advice to you is to continue your excellent preaching of the Gospel of truth and lay down this horrendous dispensationalism. It will only leave you open to dangerous future deception re: "the millenium".

EDIT: P.S. Romans 11 doesnt mention the word "Jew".
 
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Describe to me what it would look like to see "israel" in its nation praising Christ?
What kind of numbers are we talking and what criteria must these special people fulfill to be called Israel.
In other words, if we dont know who Israel is (we cant RECOGNIZE them), how will you know when these prophecies are fulfilled?

Which is impossible for us humans to determine, so how will you know when they repent?

Numbers for "all israel"....please be precise. 5,000? .....5 million?
I am gonna be honest here. I am glad I was finished and had to drive back to the shop when I read this. I was quite upset. I took this as a mocking statement. And wanted to scream. While driving, I thought hard on this. And I have not seen you be this way. You not like some of the others. And this is not even a salvic issue so I should not let it upset me much. However, considered I have said why a few times now. and could not see why your not getting it. So I will try one more time to explain what I mean. If we do not get it then. we will never get it.

1. I will use an OT example alongside this passage in Rom 11 to explain why numbers do not matter

Moses and children of isreal. vs the " all Israel in romans 11

Do we know how many children of Israel were in the dessert with Moses? were their 5000? 5 Million?
No

Does it matter? No

Why? God said they were there. I trust God did not decieve me and told me the truth. How many there are does not matter.


Will we know how many of the children of Jacob there will be when "All Isreal is saved? No

Does it matter? No


Why? God sais they will all be saved, it does not matter how many there are. He said they will be and we can trsurt God to keep his word and he did not decieve us.

Can we know how many of the children of Israel with moses believed and walked with God? No

Can we know the number of the children of Isreal did not walk with God and died in the dessert because of unbelief? No

Does any of these two matter? No

Why? God said there were some. And some entered the promised land. He Also said the rest would die in the dessert and never enter his rest. how many does not matter, we know there were some, and that is all that matters why? Because God told us so and we trust him that he did not decieve us.

Can we know the number of the children of Israel will be "saved" when as paul said in rom 11, "All Isreal will be saved? Yes and No. we do not know how many there will be, but we know ALL of them will be saved.

Does it matter? how many there are? No

why? God did not see the need to tell us how many, so we do not need to know. God said they ALL will be saved. We can trust God when he said it that he did not decieve us.

Same goes for how many will not believe when "All isreal" is saved.. Yes

How do we know?
God said so

Other examples.

Do we know how beast will take power? No. Do we know he will. Yes. Why? God said so. Does it matter how? No. WHy? God said he will. that is all that matters.

Do we know exactly how God will reign down his wrath on the earh in the judgfments of Rev?
No. DOes it matter? No. We just know it will happen. We trust God.


Hope this helps explain why I do not believe any of those questions concerning numbers matters. What matter is God said it will happen. I trust God. How many does not matter. That they do it does. For if they never do it. God lied.



As for Messiah. I will open another thred. It will be a little lengthy and is another topic.

No I have some questions for you. while I wait for your respons to the baove.

1. Were Adam, Noah, King David, and You and I saved differently? If so how?

I ask because all 4 men were under different covenants. so were they saved differently that you or I?


 
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I am gonna be honest here. I am glad I was finished and had to drive back to the shop when I read this. I was quite upset. I took this as a mocking statement. And wanted to scream. While driving, I thought hard on this. And I have not seen you be this way. You not like some of the others. And this is not even a salvic issue so I should not let it upset me much. However, considered I have said why a few times now. and could not see why your not getting it. So I will try one more time to explain what I mean. If we do not get it then. we will never get it.

1. I will use an OT example alongside this passage in Rom 11 to explain why numbers do not matter

Moses and children of isreal. vs the " all Israel in romans 11

~SNIPPAGE~

Hope this helps explain why I do not believe any of those questions concerning numbers matters. What matter is God said it will happen. I trust God. How many does not matter. That they do it does. For if they never do it. God lied.
I never said numbers mattered I was responding to YOU when you said this:

if "All Israel" (Natural born sons of Jacob) was living in Jerusalem and had repented and received her Messiah. And God was their God and he had returned them to her city. There would be no dome of the rock on the temple mount. Not to mention I odubt they would all fit in jerusalem.
You are clearly implying here that there needs to be loads of erm...'THEM' (who??) in Jerusalem and that would be a sign that prophecy is fulfilled. So thats when I started questioning you about numbers. So does quantity of "THEM"...lolz....matter OR NOT??!!

If not, how are you gonna know if the prophecies you talk of have been fulfilled?

As for Messiah. I will open another thred. It will be a little lengthy and is another topic.

No I have some questions for you. while I wait for your respons to the baove.

1. Were Adam, Noah, King David, and You and I saved differently? If so how?

I ask because all 4 men were under different covenants. so were they saved differently that you or I?
Christians are saved by faith in Jesus. True faith.

I havnt seen any info regarding the salvation of OT dudes you mention. Whats next?
 
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I never said numbers mattered I was responding to YOU when you said this:



You are clearly implying here that there needs to be loads of erm...'THEM' (who??) in Jerusalem and that would be a sign that prophecy is fulfilled. So thats when I started questioning you about numbers. So does quantity of "THEM"...lolz....matter OR NOT??!!
Well if you believe Romans 11 is a future even. and believe the 144000 children of Israel in rev are part of them. You assume there are alot of them. The number does not matter.

If not, how are you gonna know if the prophecies you talk of have been fulfilled?
Just like the beast, who we do not know how he will take power. Will take power. and we will know it when he does. We will know when "All Israel" saved. I do not question Gods prophesies, If he says it will happen. It will. How I don't know. How many" I don't know. It does not matter



Christians are saved by faith in Jesus. True faith.

I havnt seen any info regarding the salvation of OT dudes you mention. Whats next?
we can't go on until you figure this out. So I will let you do some research (ps it should not take long, it is actually quite simple)

I will give ya some help.

was moses saved by the law?

Was a saved gentile during the law saved by the law?

If not by the law. How were they saved?
 
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Well if you believe Romans 11 is a future even. and believe the 144000 children of Israel in rev are part of them. You assume there are alot of them.

The number does not matter.
Huh? Contradictamundo dude! You assume there will be alot of them but at the same time you say the numbers dont matter?

Whats going on? About the only thing you've told me that will let you know the prophecy has come true is that there will be loads of them (lol) in Jerusalem. Now you say numbers dont matter. So we're back to square one. You wont know when prophecy is fulfilled if you persist with the dispy endtimes fable.

Just like the beast, who we do not know how he will take power. Will take power. and we will know it when he does.
Speak for yourself man. I know exactly how the beast is taking over and it is called the FAKE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH...AKA worldwide communist police state...AKA...Global noahidism....AKA Talmudo-Masonry partnered up with Christian Zionism (Dispy's).

We will know when "All Israel" saved. I do not question Gods prophesies, If he says it will happen. It will. How I don't know. How many" I don't know. It does not matter
This is poor. I think you're stuck now. You seem to be flagging badly and very unsure of how things are gonna work out. This is not the sign of someone who is solid in their theology. Maybe you should have a think about it. How are you POSSIBLY gonna know how your dispy prophecies are fulfilled?

The answer is there is NO POSSIBLE WAY. So you MUST be interpreting the prophecies WRONG. Flesh is such a wonky subject to be mixed up in, thats probably why Paul said..

(1 Timothy 1:4) Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

(Titus 3:9) But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


we can't go on until you figure this out. So I will let you do some research (ps it should not take long, it is actually quite simple)

I will give ya some help.

was moses saved by the law?

Was a saved gentile during the law saved by the law?

If not by the law. How were they saved?
I cant figger it out. Why dont you tell me budski?
 
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Huh? Contradictamundo dude! You assume there will be alot of them but at the same time you say the numbers dont matter?

Whats going on? About the only thing you've told me that will let you know the prophecy has come true is that there will be loads of them (lol) in Jerusalem. Now you say numbers dont matter. So we're back to square one. You wont know when prophecy is fulfilled if you persist with the dispy endtimes fable.
I said I would not discuss this anymore. I am keeping my word. If you can not believe God will do what he said. and it does not matter how many their are. I do not know what to say.



S
peak for yourself man. I know exactly how the beast is taking over and it is called the FAKE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH...AKA worldwide communist police state...AKA...Global noahidism....AKA Talmudo-Masonry partnered up with Christian Zionism (Dispy's).
Thats your opinion. I can not agree with you. bu we will get to that later. Lets get to the how people were saved.



This is poor. I think you're stuck now. You seem to be flagging badly and very unsure of how things are gonna work out. This is not the sign of someone who is solid in their theology. Maybe you should have a think about it. How are you POSSIBLY gonna know how your dispy prophecies are fulfilled?

Whatever. This sounds like a slam. Not someone who actually wants to discuss something.


The answer is there is NO POSSIBLE WAY. So you MUST be interpreting the prophecies WRONG. Flesh is such a wonky subject to be mixed up in, thats probably why Paul said..

(1 Timothy 1:4) Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

(Titus 3:9) But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Again this is your opinion. I will know. And I already explained how. If you can;'t see it. I can't help you




[/quote]I cant figger it out. Why dont you tell me budski?[/quote]

Why would they not be saved the same way we are? The difference being they looked forward, we look back? but it is all the same faith?
 
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I said I would not discuss this anymore. I am keeping my word. If you can not believe God will do what he said. and it does not matter how many their are. I do not know what to say.


Thats your opinion. I can not agree with you. bu we will get to that later. Lets get to the how people were saved.


Whatever. This sounds like a slam. Not someone who actually wants to discuss something.


Again this is your opinion. I will know. And I already explained how. If you can;'t see it. I can't help you
Well it looks like we're done with that then. This sounds like a dead end copout to me.

Please dont tell me you are waiting for prophecy regarding fleshly natural Israel without answering these questions on how you could possibly know they have reached fullfillment. You have not explained how you will know. Not even close. And saying it doesnt matter or you dont know how you'll know just doesnt cut the cake.

Why would they not be saved the same way we are? The difference being they looked forward, we look back? but it is all the same faith?
Sounds good to me. Whats next? Going to bed. Say whatever you wanna say and I'll have a read tomorrow.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Romans 9
God’s Sovereign Choice
1I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,a my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israelc be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”

Israel’s Unbelief
30What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousnessd did not succeed in reaching that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Well it looks like we're done with that then. This sounds like a dead end copout to me.

Ok Dude. I have tried to be nice. Your sarcasm is not helping you any. and quite frankly it is getting old!

This is not a salvic issue. I am not trying to convince you. I am just sharing my belief. I have answered you many times. Just because you can not see it does not make it not so.


Please dont tell me you are waiting for prophecy regarding fleshly natural Israel without answering these questions on how you could possibly know they have reached fullfillment. You have not explained how you will know. Not even close. And saying it doesnt matter or you dont know how you'll know just doesnt cut the cake.
yet three times now I have said how. I now I will repeat myself for the umpteenth time.

Christ will be in jerusalem on davids throne. All isreal will be back in her land. Have possession of that land. And as the prophet said, they all will be saved. No more will a neighbor have to go to someones house to explain them the truth about God. for all will know it. (I even shared the prophesy which said this. The valley of the dry bones)

It does not matter how many people their are. God said all. I will believe all have it when the above has happened. If you disagree that is fine. But to keep hashing out the same stuff. and say I can not know just because I do not know how many people there will be is wrong!


Sounds good to me. Whats next? Going to bed. Say whatever you wanna say and I'll have a read tomorrow.
sounds good? This is not helping. if we don't get this part. we can go no further.
 

Crazy4GODword

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2011
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I will say some of the thing I posted before, ok....

In Romans it says we are Spiritual Jews circumcised in the heart. Which make us Jews inwardly, making us part of the covenant. Also in romans we are grafted in (made Jews also could be said). Jews were people circumcised so yes Abraham's time you were a Jew not when Jacob came around.
 
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Ok Dude. I have tried to be nice. Your sarcasm is not helping you any. and quite frankly it is getting old!

This is not a salvic issue. I am not trying to convince you. I am just sharing my belief. I have answered you many times. Just because you can not see it does not make it not so.
I dunno what your talking about. I wasnt being sarcastic.

yet three times now I have said how. I now I will repeat myself for the umpteenth time.

Christ will be in jerusalem on davids throne.
Jesus never said anything about doing this. You are mistaken. Jesus is reigning on the throne of David in NEW JERUSALEM in His SPIRITUAL Kingdom that is not of this world, that comes not with observation. This is what our Lord said. You should listen more to Jesus and less to Cyrus Schofield and his twisting of ancient prophecies concerning old covenant Israel.

All isreal will be back in her land. Have possession of that land. And as the prophet said, they all will be saved.
Its pointless for you to be looking for this to happen as you can never know who the descendants of natural israel are. You need to realize that you've got the prophecies wrong. You are looking for CARNAL FLESH fulfillment when you should be understanding spiritual fulfillment. Natural Israel were 'saved' because they were brought back into divine favor. God Himself manifested in the flesh and walked among the lost sheep of the house of israel. They were the first to be offered salvation. Many took it. Others were blinded. The verse cant possibly mean that all descendants of natural israel of every age will receive eternal spiritual salvation. What about the pharisees that Jesus condemned to hell? Are you now reversing that and saying they are part of 'all israel' that will receive salvation?

No more will a neighbor have to go to someones house to explain them the truth about God. for all will know it. (I even shared the prophesy which said this. The valley of the dry bones)
The Gospel has gone out to all nations. To the furthest reaches of the globe. The scriptures are available to all. Fulfilled.

It does not matter how many people their are. God said all. I will believe all have it when the above has happened. If you disagree that is fine. But to keep hashing out the same stuff. and say I can not know just because I do not know how many people there will be is wrong!
You dont know how many and you dont even know WHO THEY ARE. You pretty much have no clue what your looking for in regards to fulfillment of dispy prophecy concerning natural Israel. Time to give it up me thinks. Consider that you may be wrong, thats the first step. Your entire position makes absolutely no sense. God does not offer us confusion in His Word.

Even a proper full on dispy makes more sense than you. They would just say that fulfillment will be in todays JEWS. You obviously realize the absurdity of that argument so it seems you are kinda half out of dispyness but you stubbornly refuse to reject the whole thing. I think this is pride.

sounds good? This is not helping. if we don't get this part. we can go no further.
fine. whatever. I have no idea where yer going with all that anyhoot.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus never said anything about doing this. You are mistaken. Jesus is reigning on the throne of David in NEW JERUSALEM in His SPIRITUAL Kingdom that is not of this world, that comes not with observation. This is what our Lord said. You should listen more to Jesus and less to Cyrus Schofield and his twisting of ancient prophecies concerning old covenant Israel.
1. There is no new Jerusalem today. And the messiah is not on his throne in the New Jerusalem. The new jerusalem will not come to be until after Christ destroys this heaven and earth we know today
2. God promised David he would have a son who would sit in his throne in the city named after him (the city of David, or Jerusalem)
3. Revelations speaks of 1000 year reign, Where Satan is bound and NOT able to decieve the nations. Satan is not bound today. Has never been bound to the point he can not decieve the nations.
4. Prophesy has to be interpreted literally. 69 weeks were fulfilled to the day. Any time God has prophesied any time frame, It has been fulfilled literally. To interpret this 1000 years as meaning anything but a literal 1000 is wrong.
5. As I said, the messiah only fulfilled one point of everything prophesied about him. He is yet to fulfill the rest of the stuff prophesied about him.
6. I do not listen to other men. I study myself. I have studied this for almost 30 years. It is my favorite subject. I have studied ALL points of view. The only part I am not sure of is when Christ will "catch up" the church.


Its pointless for you to be looking for this to happen as you can never know who the descendants of natural israel are. You need to realize that you've got the prophecies wrong. You are looking for CARNAL FLESH fulfillment when you should be understanding spiritual fulfillment.
I can't do that. Paul talks about NATURAL Flesh in romans 11. Not spiritual. I can not just throw a whole chapter of the bible out just because I want to believe something that is not true. If God through Paul says that at the end of the time of the gentiles (which would be the church age) the jews will repent and all isreal will be saved. If the prophety ezekial says God will regather natural Israel from the world where they were scattered because of sin. I can trust God that he will make it happen. I do not have to prove it. Can you prove there is a heaven? Yet you have faith in it.

Natural Israel were 'saved' because they were brought back into divine favor. God Himself manifested in the flesh and walked among the lost sheep of the house of israel. They were the first to be offered salvation. Many took it. Others were blinded. The verse cant possibly mean that all descendants of natural israel of every age will receive eternal spiritual salvation. What about the pharisees that Jesus condemned to hell? Are you now reversing that and saying they are part of 'all israel' that will receive salvation?
what? Who said anything about pharisees being saved? "All Israel" means all israel who are alive and on earth at the time the prophesy is fulfilled. Never since Christ was here has every natural born child of jacob been born again. They are blinded at this time still. It is not that hard. Think about what your saying. It makes no sense!

The Gospel has gone out to all nations. To the furthest reaches of the globe. The scriptures are available to all. Fulfilled.
Jeremiah 31: 33-34
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Yes the gospel has gone out. But what Jeremiah said in the above prophesy has not happened.. We can not even all agree in here. Jeremiah says in those days everyone will agree. Huge difference!

Y
ou dont know how many and you dont even know WHO THEY ARE. You pretty much have no clue what your looking for in regards to fulfillment of dispy prophecy concerning natural Israel. Time to give it up me thinks. Consider that you may be wrong, thats the first step. Your entire position makes absolutely no sense. God does not offer us confusion in His Word.
I am not looking for it. Who said I was? I know it will happen though. Because GOD SAID IT WILL. Thats good enough for me!

Even a proper full on dispy makes more sense than you. They would just say that fulfillment will be in todays JEWS. You obviously realize the absurdity of that argument so it seems you are kinda half out of dispyness but you stubbornly refuse to reject the whole thing. I think this is pride.
lol. No pride is reading the word of God and ignoring it. and not seeing what it says. Romans 11 is not fullfille.d Jeremiah 33 is not fulfilled. EZ 37 is not fulilled. And I have never stated todays jews would fullfill it. why do you keep saying this? the twelve tribes are more than jew2s. Yet I have said this before.



fine. whatever. I have no idea where yer going with all that anyhoot.

the point is, if we have always been saved the same way. what are all the different covenants for? If these covenants were not given as a "this is how you get to heaven" covenant "as the covenant of grace is today" then what did they mean?
 
Y

yaright

Guest

With the exception of romans 11. Where this type of language is not used. And gentile and jew are separated.

Or in the Book of Galations when the Apostle Paul said there is no difference, whether Jew or Gentile...

they are the same in Christ;

this is where division came, for the Jews who heard the Word of God and did not believe..