Is the old testament obsolete?

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Jan 1, 2020
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#1
The purpose of the Old Test. today.

1. It defines sin and righteousness.

A. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. (NKJ)

B. Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." (NKJ)

C. Rom 7:12 "...the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

D. Rom 15:4 "For whatever was written in earlier time's was written for our instruction..."

E. I Cor 10:6-11 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. (NKJ)

F. I Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully… (NKJ)

II Tim 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (NKJ)

(alternate version's)

II Tim 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God (is) also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (ASV)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (NAS)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (NIV)

H. Mt 5:17-18 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the aw till all is fulfilled. (NKJ)

Here is something to think about: Most people interpret this passage to mean that when all the prophesies concerning Jesus suffering and resurrection ere fulfilled that the law passed away.

In order to interpret it this way, one must believe that the word "all" does not include all of the Old Test prophesies concerning the Messiah. Hence the word "all" is not all inclusive.

There is some support for this reasoning in other passage's of scripture, and in logic. e.g. If John and 7 other people who were with him went to the Mall; We could state that they all went to the Mall. Here the term "all" does not mean that every human being on earth went to the Mall; but that John and His 7 friend's did. So the term "all" is not all inclusive; but limited in scope to the 8 people referred to in the sentence. Hence context determines whether or not the word "all" is all inclusive or not.

But in this passage; it is hard to determine the correct interpretation of this word. For if you consider the context of the rest of the New Test.; It can be reasonably concluded that the word "all" is not all inclusive. But if you isolate the verse from the rest of the New Test. The context demand's that it be interpreted as all inclusive. This, of course, would mean that every part of the law is still in effect because not all of the prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament have yet been fulfilled! (Although many have been.) But according to the rest of the New Test., this cannot be true.

So may I suggest an alternate interpretation? Consider this: Being that the term "all" is all inclusive in the verse's context, and the rest of the New Testament say's that at least a portion of the law is done away with; it could be said that just as a portion of the prophecy’s have been fulfilled; and a portion have not been fulfilled; so also a portion of the Old Testament is done away with (i.e. Levitical Priesthood, Temple worship, animal sacrifice for sin, circumcision, the ark of the covenant, Passover, etc.) and a portion still remains in effect. (i.e. the moral law's of the Old Testament such as:

Deut 6:4-7 4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 "You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. (NKJ)

Mt 22:37-40 37 Jesus said to him," `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (NKJ) Mk 12:30

Lev 19:18 `You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. (NKJ)

Matt 19:19 `Honor your father and your mother,' and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (NKJ) (Matt 22:39, Mark 12:31, Romans 13:9, Gal 5:14, James 2:8)

I could go on and on demonstrating how Old Testament laws are repeated in the New Testament ; but what has been given is sufficient to prove that the Old Testament moral law's are Still in effect today, and are to be obeyed! Of course, we cannot obey them in our own strength or effort's apart from God's power; but through His power and strength that He give's us we are to walk in obedience.

Also the Old Testament defines New Testament term's. For example: The New Test. state's that we are to abstain from sexual immorality. But it does not define sexual immorality. However it is defined for us in the Old Test. (e.g. Leviticus 18:6-24, 20:10-21 etc.) The New Testament tell's us to love God and our neighbor. The Old Test. tell's us how to do this. (as well as the New Testament to a certain degree). And so is the case with many other thing's that we are commanded to do/abstain from, in the New Testament )) (Here's something to think about: Jms 1:21-25 state's: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, (i.e. the Old Testament, and letter's of apostle's that may have been available at the time. The "cannon" wasn't complete at this time.) WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOUL'S. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers (or reader's) only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer (or reader) of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.25 But he who looks into the perfect LAW OF LIBERTY (here the Old Testament is called the "perfect law of liberty") and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the WORK, THIS ONE WILL BE BLESSED in what he does. (NKJ) Now Jms. was written before A.D. 62. Matt. was written between A.D. 60-66; I Thes, A.D. 52 or 53; Gal, A.D. 56 or 57; Rom, A.D. 58; Eph, A.D. 61 or 62; Col, A.D. 61 or 62; Phil, A.D. 62 or 63; Heb, A.D. 62 or 63; I Tim, A.D. 65; Titus, A.D. 65; Jude, A.D. 65; II Tim, A.D. 68; I can't find date's for the other's. (source: Bible dict. and concordance). Hence. at the time that Jms wrote his epistle: I Thes, Gal, Rom, Eph, Col, and possibly Matt., were the ONLY New Test. book's in existence. (Book's that Jms may or may not have had copies of). And at least 9 of the New Testament Book's were either being written at the same time as Jms was; or at a later date; and being that the Jew's had synagogues in every city of the known world at that time, where the law of Moses was read every Sabbath, (Acts 15:21) And being that new's and letter's traveled very slowly at that time; Jms more than likely was referring to the Old Testament when he use's the word "word" in His epistle. So we cannot interpret this passage to be referring to the New Testament "cannon". It is interesting to note that in Act's 15:13-29, during the dispute about circumcision; James stand's up; quotes Amos 9:11-12, and Isa 45:21 together; then state's 4 thing's from the law that they were to abstain from (i.e. thing's contaminated by idol's, fornication (as defined in the law), strangled animals, and drinking blood.) Then reminds the apostle's that the law of Moses was well known in the gentile city’s due to the fact that Moses was read every Sabbath from "ancient generation's". And was STILL being read every Sabbath. Thus those who were ignorant could hear it any time they wanted. (but the text indicates that Moses was well known by the church their.) Hence, it wasn't necessary to send them anything more than the command's they sent.)

I conclude therefore, that insofar as Jesus and the Apostle's have not changed the law; the law is still in effect. But insofar as they have changed it; it is not valid.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,553
2,213
113
www.christiancourier.com
#2
There are those who do believe the old testament is obsolete. However, the old testament is the prophecy relating to the new testament, and the new testament is the old testament prophecies realized. We cannot have the new testament without the foundation of the old. Jesus figured prominently in the old testament. It is not obsolete.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,864
4,925
113
#3
...but what has been given is sufficient to prove that the Old Testament moral law's are Still in effect today, and are to be obeyed!
You need to clearly distinguish between the Old Testament (the Hebrew Tanakh consisting of 24 books, which are now 39 books in our bibles) and the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

Within the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant) there are 613 commandments (as is generally accepted). However within the Law there are also the Ten Commandments, which were originally written on tablets of stone and they are eternal.

But according to the New Covenant, which includes the New Birth, they are written on the hearts and minds of those who are children of God. And the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died and said "It is finished".

Those Ten Commandments have BOTH spiritual and a moral application. Thus they were distilled by Christ into the Two Greatest Commandments. And the essence of both those commandments is LOVE (AGAPE, CHARITY). So under the New Covenant *Love is the fulfilling of the Law*, and that is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 
Jan 1, 2020
40
23
8
#4
the late dr. chuck missler was fond of saying that the 'old testament is the new testament concealed. and the new testament is the old testament revealed!'
 
Jan 1, 2020
40
23
8
#5
You need to clearly distinguish between the Old Testament (the Hebrew Tanakh consisting of 24 books, which are now 39 books in our bibles) and the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

Within the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant) there are 613 commandments (as is generally accepted). However within the Law there are also the Ten Commandments, which were originally written on tablets of stone and they are eternal.

But according to the New Covenant, which includes the New Birth, they are written on the hearts and minds of those who are children of God. And the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died and said "It is finished".

Those Ten Commandments have BOTH spiritual and a moral application. Thus they were distilled by Christ into the Two Greatest Commandments. And the essence of both those commandments is LOVE (AGAPE, CHARITY). So under the New Covenant *Love is the fulfilling of the Law*, and that is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
the two greatest commands that Jesus gave us (Love god, love neighbor) are in the old testament. They are not a part of the ten commandments! Yet Jesus puts them above the ten commandments! Jesus said that these two commandments are what supports all the other moral laws. because if you practice these two commandments: you will automatically be obeying the other moral commandments. for loving your neighbor encompass not stealing from him: not lying to him; not committing adultery with his wife; etc. the moral laws are laws of love for each other. And loving God is obeying God. so if we love God we will obey him and keep his moral laws.

Now the ceremonial laws of the old testament are done away with! e.g. the laws concerning the temple, animal sacrifice for sin, the priesthood, the feasts, circumcision, etc. and we must ignore them. for it is sin to do them under the new covenant! for it is a denial of what Jesus did on the cross for us. Jesus is the only mediator between us and God! not the temple and its sacrificial system. this is what pauls epistles tell us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,864
4,925
113
#6
They are not a part of the ten commandments! Yet Jesus puts them above the ten commandments! Jesus said that these two commandments are what supports all the other moral laws.
What you have posted here is how Christians must relate to the Ten Commandments. As to the two greatest commandments, they are indirectly a part of the Ten Commandments, since the first four are covered by perfect love towards God, and the last six are covered by perfect love towards your neighbor.

At the same time we must always remember that the Ten Commandments are primarily SPIRITUAL laws, and secondarily moral laws.

For we know that the Law [the Ten Commandments] is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Rom 7:14)

Since Paul was writing under the inspiration, direction and control of the Holy Spirit, it is God who revealed to him (and to us) that the Ten Commandments are primarily spiritual. And the context makes it clear that Paul is speaking about the Ten Commandments as "the Law". [Note: The term "the Law" can apply to different things (including the whole Old Testament) depending on context]
 

bud62

Active member
Jan 4, 2020
876
202
43
62
washburn Tn
#7
There are those who do believe the old testament is obsolete. However, the old testament is the prophecy relating to the new testament, and the new testament is the old testament prophecies realized. We cannot have the new testament without the foundation of the old. Jesus figured prominently in the old testament. It is not obsolete.
There is much in the old testament for us today to the END , & it is for our learning how GOD works for our salvation . Prophesies. that show us ,where we are in the BIBLE . witch we are at the end of time . GOD BLESS as HE sees fit
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,379
467
83
#8
The purpose of the Old Test. today.

1. It defines sin and righteousness.

A. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. (NKJ)

B. Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." (NKJ)

C. Rom 7:12 "...the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

D. Rom 15:4 "For whatever was written in earlier time's was written for our instruction..."

E. I Cor 10:6-11 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. (NKJ)

F. I Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully… (NKJ)

II Tim 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (NKJ)

(alternate version's)

II Tim 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God (is) also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (ASV)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (NAS)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (NIV)

H. Mt 5:17-18 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the aw till all is fulfilled. (NKJ)

Here is something to think about: Most people interpret this passage to mean that when all the prophesies concerning Jesus suffering and resurrection ere fulfilled that the law passed away.

In order to interpret it this way, one must believe that the word "all" does not include all of the Old Test prophesies concerning the Messiah. Hence the word "all" is not all inclusive.

There is some support for this reasoning in other passage's of scripture, and in logic. e.g. If John and 7 other people who were with him went to the Mall; We could state that they all went to the Mall. Here the term "all" does not mean that every human being on earth went to the Mall; but that John and His 7 friend's did. So the term "all" is not all inclusive; but limited in scope to the 8 people referred to in the sentence. Hence context determines whether or not the word "all" is all inclusive or not.

But in this passage; it is hard to determine the correct interpretation of this word. For if you consider the context of the rest of the New Test.; It can be reasonably concluded that the word "all" is not all inclusive. But if you isolate the verse from the rest of the New Test. The context demand's that it be interpreted as all inclusive. This, of course, would mean that every part of the law is still in effect because not all of the prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament have yet been fulfilled! (Although many have been.) But according to the rest of the New Test., this cannot be true.

So may I suggest an alternate interpretation? Consider this: Being that the term "all" is all inclusive in the verse's context, and the rest of the New Testament say's that at least a portion of the law is done away with; it could be said that just as a portion of the prophecy’s have been fulfilled; and a portion have not been fulfilled; so also a portion of the Old Testament is done away with (i.e. Levitical Priesthood, Temple worship, animal sacrifice for sin, circumcision, the ark of the covenant, Passover, etc.) and a portion still remains in effect. (i.e. the moral law's of the Old Testament such as:

Deut 6:4-7 4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 "You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. (NKJ)

Mt 22:37-40 37 Jesus said to him," `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (NKJ) Mk 12:30

Lev 19:18 `You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. (NKJ)

Matt 19:19 `Honor your father and your mother,' and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (NKJ) (Matt 22:39, Mark 12:31, Romans 13:9, Gal 5:14, James 2:8)

I could go on and on demonstrating how Old Testament laws are repeated in the New Testament ; but what has been given is sufficient to prove that the Old Testament moral law's are Still in effect today, and are to be obeyed! Of course, we cannot obey them in our own strength or effort's apart from God's power; but through His power and strength that He give's us we are to walk in obedience.

Also the Old Testament defines New Testament term's. For example: The New Test. state's that we are to abstain from sexual immorality. But it does not define sexual immorality. However it is defined for us in the Old Test. (e.g. Leviticus 18:6-24, 20:10-21 etc.) The New Testament tell's us to love God and our neighbor. The Old Test. tell's us how to do this. (as well as the New Testament to a certain degree). And so is the case with many other thing's that we are commanded to do/abstain from, in the New Testament )) (Here's something to think about: Jms 1:21-25 state's: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, (i.e. the Old Testament, and letter's of apostle's that may have been available at the time. The "cannon" wasn't complete at this time.) WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOUL'S. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers (or reader's) only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer (or reader) of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.25 But he who looks into the perfect LAW OF LIBERTY (here the Old Testament is called the "perfect law of liberty") and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the WORK, THIS ONE WILL BE BLESSED in what he does. (NKJ) Now Jms. was written before A.D. 62. Matt. was written between A.D. 60-66; I Thes, A.D. 52 or 53; Gal, A.D. 56 or 57; Rom, A.D. 58; Eph, A.D. 61 or 62; Col, A.D. 61 or 62; Phil, A.D. 62 or 63; Heb, A.D. 62 or 63; I Tim, A.D. 65; Titus, A.D. 65; Jude, A.D. 65; II Tim, A.D. 68; I can't find date's for the other's. (source: Bible dict. and concordance). Hence. at the time that Jms wrote his epistle: I Thes, Gal, Rom, Eph, Col, and possibly Matt., were the ONLY New Test. book's in existence. (Book's that Jms may or may not have had copies of). And at least 9 of the New Testament Book's were either being written at the same time as Jms was; or at a later date; and being that the Jew's had synagogues in every city of the known world at that time, where the law of Moses was read every Sabbath, (Acts 15:21) And being that new's and letter's traveled very slowly at that time; Jms more than likely was referring to the Old Testament when he use's the word "word" in His epistle. So we cannot interpret this passage to be referring to the New Testament "cannon". It is interesting to note that in Act's 15:13-29, during the dispute about circumcision; James stand's up; quotes Amos 9:11-12, and Isa 45:21 together; then state's 4 thing's from the law that they were to abstain from (i.e. thing's contaminated by idol's, fornication (as defined in the law), strangled animals, and drinking blood.) Then reminds the apostle's that the law of Moses was well known in the gentile city’s due to the fact that Moses was read every Sabbath from "ancient generation's". And was STILL being read every Sabbath. Thus those who were ignorant could hear it any time they wanted. (but the text indicates that Moses was well known by the church their.) Hence, it wasn't necessary to send them anything more than the command's they sent.)

I conclude therefore, that insofar as Jesus and the Apostle's have not changed the law; the law is still in effect. But insofar as they have changed it; it is not valid.
Amen Brother Dave!! Well compiled. It is not easy for many to truly see what you have written. What has dissappeared from the old to the new is the CHARGE SHEET that the Law had against our persons. But it by no means says that we continue to be law breakers. For all of the law can be summed up into Love God and Love your Neighbour. And this is lived out in the Spirit.
 

bud62

Active member
Jan 4, 2020
876
202
43
62
washburn Tn
#9
Amen Brother Dave!! Well compiled. It is not easy for many to truly see what you have written. What has dissappeared from the old to the new is the CHARGE SHEET that the Law had against our persons. But it by no means says that we continue to be law breakers. For all of the law can be summed up into Love God and Love your Neighbour. And this is lived out in the Spirit.
TO love GOD is the first is four COMMANDMENTS . & the last six is about loving your neighbor SO it's really is the TEN THAT'S wrote on our HEARTS GOD BLESS as HE sees fit
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,379
467
83
#10
TO love GOD is the first is four COMMANDMENTS . & the last six is about loving your neighbor SO it's really is the TEN THAT'S wrote on our HEARTS GOD BLESS as HE sees fit
Amen Bud!
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
60
28
#11
The purpose of the Old Test. today.
..........
I conclude therefore, that insofar as Jesus and the Apostle's have not changed the law; the law is still in effect. But insofar as they have changed it; it is not valid.
Today the book is more relevant than ever, but only when guided by the Holy Spirit.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,823
1,696
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Texas
#12
No. The old testament is a wonderful historical record of the interaction between God and man. And as Paul stated a school master so that we will know what is sin.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,476
3,997
113
#13
No. The old testament is a wonderful historical record of the interaction between God and man. And as Paul stated a school master so that we will know what is sin.
The Laws are only a small part of the OT and they point to Jesus, Yeshua and the Prophets.

The very first believers for well over 100 years were taught of Jesus Yeshua, with the Holy Scriptures of the OT.......
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,650
113
#14
The purpose of the Old Test. today.

1. It defines sin and righteousness.

A. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. (NKJ)

B. Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." (NKJ)

C. Rom 7:12 "...the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

D. Rom 15:4 "For whatever was written in earlier time's was written for our instruction..."

E. I Cor 10:6-11 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. (NKJ)

F. I Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully… (NKJ)

II Tim 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (NKJ)

(alternate version's)

II Tim 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God (is) also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (ASV)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (NAS)

II Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (NIV)

H. Mt 5:17-18 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the aw till all is fulfilled. (NKJ)

Here is something to think about: Most people interpret this passage to mean that when all the prophesies concerning Jesus suffering and resurrection ere fulfilled that the law passed away.

In order to interpret it this way, one must believe that the word "all" does not include all of the Old Test prophesies concerning the Messiah. Hence the word "all" is not all inclusive.

There is some support for this reasoning in other passage's of scripture, and in logic. e.g. If John and 7 other people who were with him went to the Mall; We could state that they all went to the Mall. Here the term "all" does not mean that every human being on earth went to the Mall; but that John and His 7 friend's did. So the term "all" is not all inclusive; but limited in scope to the 8 people referred to in the sentence. Hence context determines whether or not the word "all" is all inclusive or not.

But in this passage; it is hard to determine the correct interpretation of this word. For if you consider the context of the rest of the New Test.; It can be reasonably concluded that the word "all" is not all inclusive. But if you isolate the verse from the rest of the New Test. The context demand's that it be interpreted as all inclusive. This, of course, would mean that every part of the law is still in effect because not all of the prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament have yet been fulfilled! (Although many have been.) But according to the rest of the New Test., this cannot be true.

So may I suggest an alternate interpretation? Consider this: Being that the term "all" is all inclusive in the verse's context, and the rest of the New Testament say's that at least a portion of the law is done away with; it could be said that just as a portion of the prophecy’s have been fulfilled; and a portion have not been fulfilled; so also a portion of the Old Testament is done away with (i.e. Levitical Priesthood, Temple worship, animal sacrifice for sin, circumcision, the ark of the covenant, Passover, etc.) and a portion still remains in effect. (i.e. the moral law's of the Old Testament such as:

Deut 6:4-7 4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 "You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. (NKJ)

Mt 22:37-40 37 Jesus said to him," `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (NKJ) Mk 12:30

Lev 19:18 `You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. (NKJ)

Matt 19:19 `Honor your father and your mother,' and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (NKJ) (Matt 22:39, Mark 12:31, Romans 13:9, Gal 5:14, James 2:8)

I could go on and on demonstrating how Old Testament laws are repeated in the New Testament ; but what has been given is sufficient to prove that the Old Testament moral law's are Still in effect today, and are to be obeyed! Of course, we cannot obey them in our own strength or effort's apart from God's power; but through His power and strength that He give's us we are to walk in obedience.

Also the Old Testament defines New Testament term's. For example: The New Test. state's that we are to abstain from sexual immorality. But it does not define sexual immorality. However it is defined for us in the Old Test. (e.g. Leviticus 18:6-24, 20:10-21 etc.) The New Testament tell's us to love God and our neighbor. The Old Test. tell's us how to do this. (as well as the New Testament to a certain degree). And so is the case with many other thing's that we are commanded to do/abstain from, in the New Testament )) (Here's something to think about: Jms 1:21-25 state's: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, (i.e. the Old Testament, and letter's of apostle's that may have been available at the time. The "cannon" wasn't complete at this time.) WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOUL'S. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers (or reader's) only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer (or reader) of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.25 But he who looks into the perfect LAW OF LIBERTY (here the Old Testament is called the "perfect law of liberty") and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the WORK, THIS ONE WILL BE BLESSED in what he does. (NKJ) Now Jms. was written before A.D. 62. Matt. was written between A.D. 60-66; I Thes, A.D. 52 or 53; Gal, A.D. 56 or 57; Rom, A.D. 58; Eph, A.D. 61 or 62; Col, A.D. 61 or 62; Phil, A.D. 62 or 63; Heb, A.D. 62 or 63; I Tim, A.D. 65; Titus, A.D. 65; Jude, A.D. 65; II Tim, A.D. 68; I can't find date's for the other's. (source: Bible dict. and concordance). Hence. at the time that Jms wrote his epistle: I Thes, Gal, Rom, Eph, Col, and possibly Matt., were the ONLY New Test. book's in existence. (Book's that Jms may or may not have had copies of). And at least 9 of the New Testament Book's were either being written at the same time as Jms was; or at a later date; and being that the Jew's had synagogues in every city of the known world at that time, where the law of Moses was read every Sabbath, (Acts 15:21) And being that new's and letter's traveled very slowly at that time; Jms more than likely was referring to the Old Testament when he use's the word "word" in His epistle. So we cannot interpret this passage to be referring to the New Testament "cannon". It is interesting to note that in Act's 15:13-29, during the dispute about circumcision; James stand's up; quotes Amos 9:11-12, and Isa 45:21 together; then state's 4 thing's from the law that they were to abstain from (i.e. thing's contaminated by idol's, fornication (as defined in the law), strangled animals, and drinking blood.) Then reminds the apostle's that the law of Moses was well known in the gentile city’s due to the fact that Moses was read every Sabbath from "ancient generation's". And was STILL being read every Sabbath. Thus those who were ignorant could hear it any time they wanted. (but the text indicates that Moses was well known by the church their.) Hence, it wasn't necessary to send them anything more than the command's they sent.)

I conclude therefore, that insofar as Jesus and the Apostle's have not changed the law; the law is still in effect. But insofar as they have changed it; it is not valid.
Wrap your head around this verse, law of the Lord is the Torah OT.

Jeremiah 8:8 (NKJ)
“How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#15
You need to clearly distinguish between the Old Testament (the Hebrew Tanakh consisting of 24 books, which are now 39 books in our bibles) and the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

Within the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant) there are 613 commandments (as is generally accepted). However within the Law there are also the Ten Commandments, which were originally written on tablets of stone and they are eternal.

But according to the New Covenant, which includes the New Birth, they are written on the hearts and minds of those who are children of God. And the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died and said "It is finished".

Those Ten Commandments have BOTH spiritual and a moral application. Thus they were distilled by Christ into the Two Greatest Commandments. And the essence of both those commandments is LOVE (AGAPE, CHARITY). So under the New Covenant *Love is the fulfilling of the Law*, and that is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Pentecost is a mark of the new covenant when the law is written on our hearts. The first Pentecost was the giving of the law to the people who fled Egypt. It was a celebration of the giving of the law that the holy spirits writes on our hearts.

There is no cancellations of the truths of God, all scripture is related and they are eternal.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#16
The first Pentecost was the giving of the law to the people who fled Egypt. It was a celebration of the giving of the law that the holy spirits writes on our hearts.
You just made this up, since the Holy Spirit COULD NOT BE POURED OUT upon all flesh until and unless Christ had finished His work of redemption (in His death, burial, and resurrection), and then ascended back to the Father. Take time to study the Gospel.
 
Jan 10, 2020
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#17
Without the Old Testament, the New Testament is not complete!!! These two compliment each other so much!!! Even in their contradictions, they paint a larger picture that is glorious.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,263
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#18
"The Old Testament is Christ concealed;
The New Testament is Christ revealed."

I don't recall who originally said or wrote that, but it's VERY true!

:cool:
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#20
There are those who do believe the old testament is obsolete. However, the old testament is the prophecy relating to the new testament, and the new testament is the old testament prophecies realized. We cannot have the new testament without the foundation of the old. Jesus figured prominently in the old testament. It is not obsolete.
The old way in Adam has become obsolete! The old testament scriptures however, are more relivant now then they ever were!

Old covenant Israel does not exist on this Earth any longer; but you are correct, New covenant Israel is built on the foundation of the faithful of old covenant Israel!

No one will ever uncover all the treasure hidden in the writings of the ancient scribes and Prophets!