Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?
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brother he was asking a question, how can someone be saved without the holy spirit? look very closely at this look at what is being asked, i will highlight it and enlarge it so you can get a better view and maybe understand it better but please look at it closely and look at the answer that they gave him
[h=3]Acts 19:2-6[/h]King James Version (KJV)
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
now look closely at the red mark part i want you look at what is being asked, now we ALL know the holy spirit is received when someone truly is born again and receive christ agreed? but notice, THEY BELIEVED but did they receive the holy spirit with that BELIEF? look at the response, read it carefully brother
[h=3]Acts 19:2-6[/h]King James Version (KJV)
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
now look closely at the red mark part i want you look at what is being asked, now we ALL know the holy spirit is received when someone truly is born again and receive christ agreed? but notice, THEY BELIEVED but did they receive the holy spirit with that BELIEF? look at the response, read it carefully brother
now look at this brother, is it not true that faith manifest what we believe in? should not something be manifested to prove that, that faith is indeed faith? example lets say someone is in the hospital sick dying of cancer, and it's a huge cancer but she refused to die so she called a pastor to pray for her... and the pastor prayed with faith, and she also believe, and that same hour, that faith was made manifested the doctor said she was completely healed.. now shouldn't that same faith.. that healed her and MANIFESTED that it was indeed faith, should not the same thing happen through salvation?
something must have to take place between you and God to prove that God accepted that faith and that truly is faith, because faith brings forth the things hope for it manifests in the natural what you are believing or it's not faith, something must have to take place, as we notice when everyone receive the holy spirit in the bible SOMETHING took place, something emotional, does not a new born baby ( creation ) wheep when it is born?
if it was there then they wouldn't be a need to have faith everyone would just know what to expect brother, but i know that you know that this is truth, that faith manifest something is that right brother? atleast consider it, i know it may seem like i'm talking craziness brother but it's the truth... and i can only say this from experience also brother,
[h=3]Genesis 22:8[/h]King James Version (KJV)
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
see the faith of abraham he said God will provide a lamb and his faith was made manifested, how would we know that it truly is faith, if something doesn't happen when we believe upon God?
[h=3]Genesis 22:8[/h]King James Version (KJV)
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
see the faith of abraham he said God will provide a lamb and his faith was made manifested, how would we know that it truly is faith, if something doesn't happen when we believe upon God?
and the experience comes during the process of being saved, not that you must have it, is it ok if i give a short testimony about me and my family's testimony? before i accepted christ i had already been baptized in Jesus name but did not receive the holy spirit didn't even know about it, but when the time had come and i was completely dedicated to surrendering to God confessed all my Sins to my mom then went to church, and what happened the same exact hour i believed was, the moment i believe i felt lifeless... and i fell back like i had died and i felt all burdens lifted off immediately just as the scripture said, and just like that i started to wheep on the floor of the church uncontrollably shouting thank you Jesus, and i didn't know why, now i had not cried in over 2 years didn't even cry at my father's funeral, and my brother's experience shortly after my father died he also had been baptized in Jesus name many years ago but didn't accept God as yet but as my father died, he wanted to see him again badly that he began to thirst to God, and he told he was out on the road somewhere at that time at the beach i believe, then he said he started talking to God and as he believed upon God he fell to the ground like he had just died and burden lifted off and started to wheep and say thank you Jesus and could not help it... now this same exact experience has been happening world wide to those who truly accepted Christ and experience salvation have many more testimonies if you would like to hear
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Josh, it isn't necessary for salvation. It gets into a disobedience thing to not do it. Some say, "Do I have to get baptized to be saved?" No, you don't. No more than you have to wash your brothers feet or remember the Lords supper to be saved. But, once you are saved and fail to do so, you are now in disobedience to God, and that can cost you your salvation.
B
brother crossnote...
from genesis to revelation... how did each apostle... prophet... teacher... pastor... evangelist... a believer... ever come to god?
with a godly experience... god calling them... how... by a supernatural experience... this is the godly experience every true born again holy spirit filled believer MUST HAVE... no if's... and's... or but's...
it's right there brother... from genesis to revelation... you can't say it's not there brother... for it is... a supernatural godly experience unto every true son and daughter of god.
much love and god bless brother.
from genesis to revelation... how did each apostle... prophet... teacher... pastor... evangelist... a believer... ever come to god?
with a godly experience... god calling them... how... by a supernatural experience... this is the godly experience every true born again holy spirit filled believer MUST HAVE... no if's... and's... or but's...
it's right there brother... from genesis to revelation... you can't say it's not there brother... for it is... a supernatural godly experience unto every true son and daughter of god.
much love and god bless brother.
P
YOU BET YOUR LIFE THE RIGHT BAPTISM IS IMPORTANT. EHP. 4: 5 SAYS THERE IS ONLY ONE. THERE USE TO BE MORE THAN ONE, NOT ANYMORE. IT IS IN WATER, THE SAME ONE PAUL HAD, IN ACTS 22;16 ITS TO WASH AWAY OUR SINS AND ADD US TO THE CHURCH.
RECEVING THE HS WAS DONE BY THE LAYING ON OF THE HANDS, THE APOSTELS HAD THE BAPTISM OF THE HS IT WAS NOT PASSED ON, WE DON'T RECIEVE THE HS TODAY. SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY DO AND HAVE HAD IT BUT, THEY ARE FALSELY TAUGHT. NONE OF THEM CAN RAISE A DEAD PERSON, CALM A STORM, HEAL A BROKEN BONE, CURE CANCER. THERE IS NO PROOF AT ALL. THE FIRST PERSON WHO CAN DO THIS WILL HAVE A FOLLOWING SO BIG, SO FAST, WELL IT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
YOUR ON THE RIGHT TRACK, BUT THE BAPTISM IS NOT A HS BAPTISM. IF YOU RECIEVED A HS BAPTISM YOU COULD DO THINGS THAT WOULD IMPRESS THE WORLD. YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
JOSH YOU BELIEVE THIS, WELL BELIEVE VS. 6 ALSO.
RECEVING THE HS WAS DONE BY THE LAYING ON OF THE HANDS, THE APOSTELS HAD THE BAPTISM OF THE HS IT WAS NOT PASSED ON, WE DON'T RECIEVE THE HS TODAY. SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY DO AND HAVE HAD IT BUT, THEY ARE FALSELY TAUGHT. NONE OF THEM CAN RAISE A DEAD PERSON, CALM A STORM, HEAL A BROKEN BONE, CURE CANCER. THERE IS NO PROOF AT ALL. THE FIRST PERSON WHO CAN DO THIS WILL HAVE A FOLLOWING SO BIG, SO FAST, WELL IT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
YOUR ON THE RIGHT TRACK, BUT THE BAPTISM IS NOT A HS BAPTISM. IF YOU RECIEVED A HS BAPTISM YOU COULD DO THINGS THAT WOULD IMPRESS THE WORLD. YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
JOSH YOU BELIEVE THIS, WELL BELIEVE VS. 6 ALSO.
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Okay, parablepete is making me clarify my reply. Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is necessary to make an outward showing of an inner cleansing, and that MUST be done by immersion. If you are saved, you are a changed man. And God wants the world to know it. He wants you to show the world where you stand. He wants you on His side, not discreetly, but openly, ready to serve Him.
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brother phil...
it is part of the plan of god's salvation...
and it must be done brother.
it is a key ingredient... without it... you made and created something different... and not what god had planned.
john 3:8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
pretty self explanatory... since our lord jesus christ said this himself.
mark 16:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
and once again in mark...
much love and god bless brother.
it is part of the plan of god's salvation...
and it must be done brother.
it is a key ingredient... without it... you made and created something different... and not what god had planned.
john 3:8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
pretty self explanatory... since our lord jesus christ said this himself.
mark 16:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
and once again in mark...
much love and god bless brother.
Baptism should accompany the public profession of salvation. But it doesn't bring salvation, otherwise this would be salvation by ritual and works ('not of works', Ephesians 2.9).
Baptismal regeneration is not Scriptural: John 3 teaches the new birth by the Spirit of God. Ephesians 5 speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'; this is not, however, baptism.
Baptismal regeneration is not Scriptural: John 3 teaches the new birth by the Spirit of God. Ephesians 5 speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'; this is not, however, baptism.
lol is not God the same yesterday today and forever? does God change? [h=3]Malachi 3:6[/h]King James Version (KJV)
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
if he did it in the old it must be done now also God does not change, and brother believe posted the scripture in the post above you
john 3:8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
if he did it in the old it must be done now also God does not change, and brother believe posted the scripture in the post above you
john 3:8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
it is a step to salvation, otherwise these people would have received the holy spirit the moment they believed in God but they didn't because they had the wrong baptism, if that occured in the old it must occur now also
[h=3]Acts 19:2-5[/h]King James Version (KJV)
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[h=3]Acts 19:2-5[/h]King James Version (KJV)
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
I think we should define what it means to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, receive the Holy Ghost, and be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Remember Samson and his dealings with the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost was taken from him because his hair was cut. I don't think this has a great deal to do with salvation. And I've been told by others that the anointing or baptizing of the Holy Ghost is different than the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
By the way, the above passage does say "repent and", which has conveniently been left unhilighted. Also the for in this passage does not necessarily mean "to get" something but could also mean into, unto, to, towards, for or among. If it were a baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins then it's likely it was a baptism where the Gospel was included.
Acts 19:4 clearly states that John's baptism was a baptism for repentance. Meaning, its purpose was repentance. Obviously getting baptized doesn't make you repent. Rather, that's the goal that particular baptismal ceremony was aimed at. In other words, it was a baptism unto repentance. So how can we say that getting baptized washes our sins away? I don't think we can. I think the for here is focusing on direction or theme - not end result.
Baptism comes from a ritual in the Torah known as a mikvah, which was an immersion in water to ceremonially clean someone. It wasn't necessarily done to clean oneself, but was done when someone came in contact with something ceremonially unclean. They would immerse themselves in water and sometimes wash their clothes. John's mikvah had one goal - repentance. Other mikvot had other goals. Even in one passage in the Bible Paul says he's thankful that he didn't baptize anyone (1 Corinthians 1:14). Why would he be thankful if he knew how to baptize properly and people would have been saved for it? No, I think the mikvah was a ritual that was used to show figuratively that our sins were being washed away. And John shows us that messages could be preached at these mikvot, as he did not only immerse people but also preached a message unto repentance. Just as circumcision does not save anyone the mikvah does not save anyone. But it is still very important.
Well, let's note that even after John preached during his baptism he didn't necessarily believe in Christ, since he sent his disciples to ask Jesus if he really were the Christ (Matthew 11:3). But let's assume they really heard the Gospel preached and believed in Christ and repented of their sins during John's baptism. The passage still doesn't say that baptism is necessary for salvation. In fact it implies that the laying on of hands was necessary to speak in tongues and prophesy. If one then wanted to show how you were saved through the laying on of hands, they'd need to support it with other passages of Scripture and make sure they knew what receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit meant.
Paul is here talking to disciples of John, baptised with the baptism of repentance. This is in a transitional situation therefore.
Baptism is not a step to salvation.
Acts 2.41 says that 'they that gladly received His Word were baptised'. Note that the Word was not made supposedly and indispensably effective by baptism. Rather, those who already believed, those on whom the Word by the Spirit had already wrought a joyful change in them, showed that they were now Christians by publicly observing the symbol of baptism.
Baptism is not a step to salvation.
Acts 2.41 says that 'they that gladly received His Word were baptised'. Note that the Word was not made supposedly and indispensably effective by baptism. Rather, those who already believed, those on whom the Word by the Spirit had already wrought a joyful change in them, showed that they were now Christians by publicly observing the symbol of baptism.