Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?

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Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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#41
Paul is here talking to disciples of John, baptised with the baptism of repentance. This is in a transitional situation therefore.

Baptism is not a step to salvation.

Acts 2.41 says that 'they that gladly received His Word were baptised'. Note that the Word was not made supposedly and indispensably effective by baptism. Rather, those who already believed, those on whom the Word by the Spirit had already wrought a joyful change in them, showed that they were now Christians by publicly observing the symbol of baptism.
can you explain why they did not receive the holy spirit after believing in Christ Jesus and can you explain why paul told them to be baptized in Jesus name after he heard unto who they were baptized too, God bless
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#42
If one then wanted to show how you were saved through the laying on of hands, they'd need to support it with other passages of Scripture and make sure they knew what the Holy Spirit coming upon them meant.
Edited portion added in red. Couldn't edit post in time, since the site was lagging on my end. :\
 
Feb 21, 2014
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#43
can you explain why they did not receive the holy spirit after believing in Christ Jesus and can you explain why paul told them to be baptized in Jesus name after he heard unto who they were baptized too, God bless
Because they were still saints from the old economy who had not heard all the doctrine of the Gospel. As the passage says, they had not heard of the Holy Spirit. They had been baptised with the baptism of John.
 
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parablepete

Guest
#44
YOU ARE RIGHT, I DID NOT THINK OF IT THAT WAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THAT OR PROVE THAT HS IS A GIFT WE RECIEVE, THE APOSTELS HAD IT WITH OUT MEASURE. WE DON'T HAVE IT LIKE THAT TODAY. I WILL NEED TO DO SOME THINKING ON THIS. YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT. I DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY ANYTHING LIKE SOME OF THEM HERE DO. I WANT IT TO BE RIGHT. JUST ME SAYING IT DON'T MAKE IT SO. LET ME THINK AND ASK SOME QUESTIONS, OK?
 
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BELIEVE

Guest
#45
Baptism should accompany the public profession of salvation. But it doesn't bring salvation, otherwise this would be salvation by ritual and works ('not of works', Ephesians 2.9).

Baptismal regeneration is not Scriptural: John 3 teaches the new birth by the Spirit of God. Ephesians 5 speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'; this is not, however, baptism.
i don't believe in baptismal regeneration...

god says... these three things must be done...

1. full water immersion baptism in the name of our lord jesus christ... acts 2:38... i sign of death and resurrection in our lord jesus christ... this is the first key ingredient... this is justification.

2. washing by the holy word... a washing by the holy blood... a purging... this is sanctification... second key ingredient.

3. baptism of the holy spirit... the third key ingredient... this is salvation/redemption.

now the adoption is being sealed by god.

for their are two baptisms of the holy spirit... one is an anointing... and the other is a seal of the holy spirit inside of you... in your heart... forever... the seal/token of adoption.

1 john 5:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

can't separate the three main ingredients... are else now you added or took away from god's holy word.

john 3:8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

mark 16:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

much love and god bless brother.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#46
brother crossnote...

from genesis to revelation... how did each apostle... prophet... teacher... pastor... evangelist... a believer... ever come to god?

with a godly experience... god calling them... how... by a supernatural experience... this is the godly experience every true born again holy spirit filled believer MUST HAVE... no if's... and's... or but's...

it's right there brother... from genesis to revelation... you can't say it's not there brother... for it is... a supernatural godly experience unto every true son and daughter of god.

much love and god bless brother.
I'm not saying experiences do not exist. I am saying no where in Scripture does it state that you must have one in order to be saved. Show me. ''Believe on the Lord Jesus, AND HAVE AN EXPERIENCE, and you shall be saved... just doesn't exist in Scripture.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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#47
Because they were still saints from the old economy who had not heard all the doctrine of the Gospel. As the passage says, they had not heard of the Holy Spirit. They had been baptised with the baptism of John.
how can they had been a saint when they had not the holy spirit, only the holy spirit makes a sinner a saint
 
Feb 21, 2014
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#48
how can they had been a saint when they had not the holy spirit, only the holy spirit makes a sinner a saint
If you read Hebrews 11 there are many Old Testament personalities (who are sometimes referred to as Old Testament saints).
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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#49
I'm not saying experiences do not exist. I am saying no where in Scripture does it state that you must have one in order to be saved. Show me. ''Believe on the Lord Jesus, AND HAVE AN EXPERIENCE, and you shall be saved... just doesn't exist in Scripture.
brother, experience comes with salvation, that is the only way someone knows if their faith has been accepted when they experience the new birth, what do you think spiritually revelation is? something supernatual

[h=3]Hebrews 11:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


how could this be understood unless it is spiritually revealed to someone?




 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
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#50
YOU ARE RIGHT, I DID NOT THINK OF IT THAT WAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THAT OR PROVE THAT HS IS A GIFT WE RECIEVE, THE APOSTELS HAD IT WITH OUT MEASURE. WE DON'T HAVE IT LIKE THAT TODAY. I WILL NEED TO DO SOME THINKING ON THIS. YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT. I DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY ANYTHING LIKE SOME OF THEM HERE DO. I WANT IT TO BE RIGHT. JUST ME SAYING IT DON'T MAKE IT SO. LET ME THINK AND ASK SOME QUESTIONS, OK?
praise God brother i respect you, and i pray that God may reveal to you the truth, and please take your time, and the reason the holy spirit isn't being manifested like that fully in this time as it was in the old time is because not much have the holy spirit in the first place, this is the lukewarm age, where the church world has kicked Jesus out of the church, feel free to ask anymore questions u want
 

GregoryC

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2014
361
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#51
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Luke 11: [/FONT]9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Luke 11:13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
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#52
Brother crossnote, from seeing you here on the forum from since i joined i notice your a very humble a kind hearted person, i pray that you the present matter to God himself you may not understand what me and brother believe mean but no one can unless they experience it for themselves and i pray that God will bless you to find what you are looking for, but it's something we all must go through brother, we all must experience to know that our faith truly was faith, because it makes God answer you and reveal himself that your faith was accepted God bless
 
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parablepete

Guest
#53
praise God brother i respect you, and i pray that God may reveal to you the truth, and please take your time, and the reason the holy spirit isn't being manifested like that fully in this time as it was in the old time is because not much have the holy spirit in the first place, this is the lukewarm age, where the church world has kicked Jesus out of the church, feel free to ask anymore questions u want
THIS IS NOT WHAT I WAS REALLY WANTING, BUT IT WIL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

[h=3]The Dwelling of the Spirit and the Dwelling of Christ[/h] Much emphasis is placed on the Spirit dwelling in the Christian, but the New Testament speaks just as forcibly of Jesus dwelling in the Christian. In fact, it is used interchangeably in Romans 8:9-11. "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Did you notice the shift from the Spirit dwelling in you to Christ being in you and then back to the Spirit dwelling in you? Obviously Paul sees the idea as interchangeable.
Christ is formed in us when we become Christians. " My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you" (Galatians 4:19). He dwells in us through faith. " For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 4:14-17). Once again in the same context, the Spirit is spoken of being in a man along with Christ dwelling in the man' s heart through faith. There is no difference in what is meant or how it is accomplished.
There is a gift that Christ gives each of us. " But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift" (Ephesians 4:7). We understand that it is a gift of salvation. But we then become wild in our imaginations when the Bible speaks of the Spirit' s gift. "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). I submit to you that the gift of Christ that Paul mentions is the same gift of the Spirit that Peter mentions. Paul mentions that Jesus bought our salvation with his blood in Ephesians 1:7 and the Spirit guarantees our salvation through promise of God written down for us in our Bibles. "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory" (Ephesians 1:13-14).
The work of Christ and the work of the Spirit are intertwined. The relationship of the Christian with Christ and with the Spirit is similarly intertwined. God is one. You cannot dwell with Christ without also dwelling with the Spirit. When Christ is in us, the Spirit is also there, and so is the Father. When we are in Christ, we are also in the Father and in the Spirit.
 

imnotur

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2014
16
0
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#54
Physical baptism with water is a personal choice, and often times its not, as many were baptized when they were infants.

This was a nessesary in the times of the old law, which is why John the Baptist was still performing this ordinance of the law when Christ came to him.

John was also teaching the people when Christ arrived, that though he (John) baptises with water, that one will come after me that will baptise you with fire. (fire obviously being truth) as the truth, that was first spoken, then written, was now living amongst us.

Baptism with fire is essential for ones salvation, IF! one desires to be a firstfruit; else one would still have to be taught, on The Lord's Day of Reckoning and Teaching in the spirit.:)
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
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#55
But, once you are saved and fail to do so, you are now in disobedience to God, and that can cost you your salvation.
Sorry to go off topic, but couldn't ignore this comment. It's not scriptural and is the view held by some of the false religious systems that believe salvation must be maintained through works or otherwise be lost.

Do you forget that it's Christ who paid our sin debt with His blood? And that "He who has begun a good work in us will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"

When a child is disobedient they are disciplined by their father, not abandoned. And so it is with God.. but only if the person belongs to Him.
 
Feb 21, 2014
5,672
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#56
Sorry to go off topic, but couldn't ignore this comment. It's not scriptural and is the view held by some of the false religious systems that believe salvation must be maintained through works or obedience or otherwise be lost.

Do you forget that it's Christ who paid our sin debt with His blood? And that "He who has begun a good work in us will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"

When a child is disobedient they are disciplined by their father, not abandoned. And so it is with God.. but only if the person belongs to Him.
If after the glorious affirmation of the believer's security in Christ, as seen at the end of Romans 8, the believer then has supposedly to relapse into ritual in an uncertain attempt to gain or keep salvation, then this is a false doctrine.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#57
John 14:26, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said unto you. Reading all of chapter 14 is a good idea. It looks to me like the comforter was going to be sent to us after Jesus went back to the right hand of the Father.Jesus gives us the baptism of fire, which is baptism of Holy Ghost. Jesus didn't baptize people with water, He has a more powerful baptism.
 
C

CRC

Guest
#58
Ultimately, Jesus will judge all nations, but as humble slaves we do carry out the command at Matthew 28:19,20. Until he says the work is done. We will go, declare, teach, and baptize until our Lord and Savior says to stop!!
 
C

CRC

Guest
#59
At John 3:22 we read that Jesus “did baptizing,” while just a little further on, at John 4:2, the record states that “Jesus himself did no baptizing.” But as the rest of the text indicates, it was Jesus’ disciples who performed the actual baptisms in his name and under his direction. This is similar to the case in which a businessman and his secretary both can lay claim to writing a particular letter. Thus Jesus did orchestrate and coordinate baptisms, though the were performed by his disciples.
 
Oct 12, 2013
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#60
Baptism is not a prerequisite to being saved and going to Heaven. Period.
The thief on the cross was not baptized.
Lets look at the timeline of the thief on the cross event. Jesus had not YET died. Jesus had not YET been put into the tomb. Jesus had not YET been raised from the dead.

It wasn't until the birth of the New Testament church that we got the New Testament plan of salvation from Peter, which by-the-way had the keys to the kingdom, and was speaking under the power of the Holy Spirit. Peter said:


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And, everyone that did it, was added to the church:

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



Jesus said in Matthew 16:24, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

If we are to take up our cross and follow Jesus we would have to do what he did. We would have to symbolize his death, burial, and resurrection. And, that is exactly what Peter said to do.

1. Repent = death
2. Be water baptized = burial
3. Receive Holy Spirit = resurrection

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


But wait, isn't doing all that actually a "work"? No. I'm not trying to "earn" my way into heaven, it is simply obeying God's word.


-Endtimes