Is the teaching of Jesus before His crucifixion only for Jews?

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#1
Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, and some believe the book of James only for the nation of Israel.

What do you take on this view?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,679
4,172
113
#2
Are we not the other flock brought together with the Original Flock by the Good Shepherd.

Is it not written we are fellow heirs with Israel by adoption?

Is not The King of Israel, our King, as is written?

The Bible is there for all who believe with the faith of Abraham.
 

Corban

Active member
Jun 11, 2020
532
229
43
69
#3
Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, and some believe the book of James only for the nation of Israel.

What do you take on this view?
The Kingdom that was offered to Israel by the disciples of Jesus was for Israel alone. Our Lord is soon rejected and He thus turns to His DISCIPLES. That is, some few teachings were for Israel, but the bulk of the gospels are for His DISCIPLES. Look at this example early in Matthew. Check the grammar in Matthew 5:1-2;

1 "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,"


The rule of grammar is that the pronoun (them) is defined by the last mentioned subject. That would be "the disciples". The whole so-called Sermon on the Mount is directed at "His DISCIPLES". But within the discourse there are isolated things that pertain to Israel, for instance, the admonition that the Law would not pass until the New Earth is directed at Israel.

Thus, the bulk of the gospels are directed at THE CHURCH - the DISCIPLES.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#5
Are we not the other flock brought together with the Original Flock by the Good Shepherd.

Is it not written we are fellow heirs with Israel by adoption?

Is not The King of Israel, our King, as is written?

The Bible is there for all who believe with the faith of Abraham.
I agree, so James is also for us

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

Greetings.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#6
The Kingdom that was offered to Israel by the disciples of Jesus was for Israel alone. Our Lord is soon rejected and He thus turns to His DISCIPLES. That is, some few teachings were for Israel, but the bulk of the gospels are for His DISCIPLES. Look at this example early in Matthew. Check the grammar in Matthew 5:1-2;

1 "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,"


The rule of grammar is that the pronoun (them) is defined by the last mentioned subject. That would be "the disciples". The whole so-called Sermon on the Mount is directed at "His DISCIPLES". But within the discourse there are isolated things that pertain to Israel, for instance, the admonition that the Law would not pass until the New Earth is directed at Israel.

Thus, the bulk of the gospels are directed at THE CHURCH - the DISCIPLES.
How about this verse, for us or for Jews only

Luke 0

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Read full chapter
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,417
866
113
#7
Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, and some believe the book of James only for the nation of Israel.

What do you take on this view?

well obviously some things are only for the ones being addressed, like the Pharisees, but we can still learn from it, as in do not be a hypocrite

I have heard the nonsense before that whatever Jesus said before His crucifixion does not apply to us and that includes the Lord's prayer which is an example of how we can pray

so my view on this, is that the devil never gets tired of trying to deceive people because they keep falling for his lies

James is a great book and for every believer
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#8
Which verse? What was the context?
Luke 10
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Read full chapter

Jame 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#9
well obviously some things are only for the ones being addressed, like the Pharisees, but we can still learn from it, as in do not be a hypocrite

I have heard the nonsense before that whatever Jesus said before His crucifixion does not apply to us and that includes the Lord's prayer which is an example of how we can pray

so my view on this, is that the devil never gets tired of trying to deceive people because they keep falling for his lies

James is a great book and for every believer
I agree

There was a person say this verse is only for Israel
James 2
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

I know this verse look like against the teaching salvation not by work, but how people say to have faith but don't have love( murder, robing etc)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,494
5,485
113
#10
Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, and some believe the book of James only for the nation of Israel.
The book of James is for all Christians -- the Church. Just like the book of Hebrews, it is addressed to Hebrew Christians, but the teachings are for all believers. The same with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Only a very few instructions were given to Jews regarding the Law of Moses. The rest was for all the world, and particularly all Christians. The Gospel of John is universal.
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,417
866
113
#11
I agree

There was a person say this verse is only for Israel
James 2
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

I know this verse look like against the teaching salvation not by work, but how people say to have faith but don't have love( murder, robing etc)

oh right. heard that before also

some people seem to think if you mention works, you are trying to work for your salvation, but what James is looking for here, is the reality of faith changing lives

actually, we are created for good works so what people who are allergic to the word 'works' do with that scripture is twist it or ignore it I guess because they do not understand what is being said

4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. Ephesians 2

we see plainly in the portion from Ephesians above, that works do not save but then we also see that the kind of works that please God are the ones He actually has prepared for us to do

I don't think I have ever seen a thread about what those 'works' are in the forum, but we sure have plenty of threads about how nothing but faith saves, but it seems James is actually seeing if your faith is genuine, you will fulfill what it is you have been created to do

here is a decent interpretation, IMO, of what the 'good works' actually are:

The Greek original reads more literally, "which God prepared in advance, so that we might walk in them." The language of walking was used by teachers in the time of Paul in the way we might talk of living or engaging in a certain lifestyle. In other words, the good works of verse 10 are not obviously religious activities scattered throughout an otherwise secular life. Rather, the good works encompass the whole of the Christian, all that we do by God's grace for God's purposes. from this site down the page a little
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,922
1,739
113
#12
I agree, so James is also for us

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

Greetings.
To which of the twelve tribes of Israel do you belong?
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,417
866
113
#13
To which of the twelve tribes of Israel do you belong?
ridiculous

have you something intelligent to say or do you just prefer childish sarcastic comments?

I hope no one engages you because the conversation was pretty decent prior to you dropping in cause you are bored or something

I am only trying to suggest that your post is ignored as it should be but sadly and too often a good thread get totally derailed because of the type of post you created
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
331
166
43
#14
To which of the twelve tribes of Israel do you belong?
Which church in Corinth do you belong to?

The Torah is all about the Jews, and its for US as well, according to Paul:

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#15
The book of James is for all Christians -- the Church. Just like the book of Hebrews, it is addressed to Hebrew Christians, but the teachings are for all believers. The same with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Only a very few instructions were given to Jews regarding the Law of Moses. The rest was for all the world, and particularly all Christians. The Gospel of John is universal.
I agree, some people want to save without deed, so they believe you don't need to do loving work to be save, murder, robing is save because salvation by faith, not by work
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
331
166
43
#16
oh right. heard that before also

some people seem to think if you mention works, you are trying to work for your salvation, but what James is looking for here, is the reality of faith changing lives
Amen. Sadly many "Christians" today believe a changed life may or may not occur after God Himself moves into us. (The Holy Spirit)
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
331
166
43
#17
I agree, some people want to save without deed, so they believe you don't need to do loving work to be save, murder, robing is save because salvation by faith, not by work
You are right Jackson, and this type of teaching is the reason the Church is in the mess that its in today. We cant even tell the world and the church apart, its one and the same. They watch the same filth, listen to the same music, go to the same concerts, go to the same pubs, the only difference is that one of them says I believe in Jesus and no one is perfect.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,922
1,739
113
#18
Which church in Corinth do you belong to?

The Torah is all about the Jews, and its for US as well, according to Paul:

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.
The church at Corinth are believers in the body of Christ at Corinth. Doctrine to the body of Christ is good for any one in the body of Christ.

Christians are not members of the twelve tribes of Israel for there is no Jew or gentile in Christ.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
10,922
1,739
113
#19
ridiculous

have you something intelligent to say or do you just prefer childish sarcastic comments?

I hope no one engages you because the conversation was pretty decent prior to you dropping in cause you are bored or something

I am only trying to suggest that your post is ignored as it should be but sadly and too often a good thread get totally derailed because of the type of post you created
The book of James is not a Christian epistle, but a Jewish epistle for the Jews in the last days.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,448
880
113
#20
oh right. heard that before also

some people seem to think if you mention works, you are trying to work for your salvation, but what James is looking for here, is the reality of faith changing lives

actually, we are created for good works so what people who are allergic to the word 'works' do with that scripture is twist it or ignore it I guess because they do not understand what is being said

4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. Ephesians 2

we see plainly in the portion from Ephesians above, that works do not save but then we also see that the kind of works that please God are the ones He actually has prepared for us to do

I don't think I have ever seen a thread about what those 'works' are in the forum, but we sure have plenty of threads about how nothing but faith saves, but it seems James is actually seeing if your faith is genuine, you will fulfill what it is you have been created to do

here is a decent interpretation, IMO, of what the 'good works' actually are:

The Greek original reads more literally, "which God prepared in advance, so that we might walk in them." The language of walking was used by teachers in the time of Paul in the way we might talk of living or engaging in a certain lifestyle. In other words, the good works of verse 10 are not obviously religious activities scattered throughout an otherwise secular life. Rather, the good works encompass the whole of the Christian, all that we do by God's grace for God's purposes. from this site down the page a little
Yep, god inform Noah. There will be flood.

Noah believe or have faith in God.

That faith cause him to work, build giant ark

What save him, faith or work?


Faith, because if he don't believe that information he will not build an ark

But faith doesn't mean not work.