Is there unity in Christ's Church?

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

You've got to admit though that the Roman Church has ascended to heights of influence and numbers (percentage wise) that the EOC hasn't seen since the height of Byzantine power.

Rome is not the New Constantinople, Russia is. Since Russia adopted Eastern Orthodoxy in the 10th Century, Orthodoxy is the true bearer of the Grace of Christ. Also, since Roman Catholicism is just Roman, and does not have any other National ties, It cannot be called Catholic (Universal). Only Orthodoxy is truly Universal (Catholic) because the Church has other Nationalities (Churches) other than just one Nationality. The Roman Church has cut itself off from all of the other Churches of Christ.

Its not about the pomp of the Church its about the Truth. Was Mary Immaculately Conceived? Was Peter really made the head of the Church by Christ? Is the Papal Infallibility doctrine valid? Is the Filioque Scriptural? Do we sprinkle when we baptize or do we immerse? These are just a few of the very serious innovations and un-Scriptural teachings which Rome (due to error) has introduced to their Church. These errors by themselves constitute a great Fall. 20th Centrury Saint Justin Popovich+(1979) of Serbia said this about the Pope, "In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope."

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

Jesus said he would guide us, but how closely do we follow him? For that matter, how many are following their egos instead of Jesus?

If you look closely at the text, Jesus is talking to his disciples and apostles. Though you could refer it to speaking about you yourself, the text is talking about then and there; not talking about us necessarily (though you can interpret it as talking about us).

If you come to think that the entire New Testament is referring to you here and now and not to then and there, then naturally, you are following your ego and in delusion.

For how will you know what the Holy Scriptures is talking about unless someone guide you?


Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

 

[SantoSubito]

Rome is not the New Constantinople, Russia is.

Nah, Rome doesn't need to be a New Constantinople, since Constantinople itself was a copy of Rome. Rome has been and always will be the Eternal City.

Since Russia adopted Eastern Orthodoxy in the 10th Century, Orthodoxy is the true bearer of the Grace of Christ. Also, since Roman Catholicism is just Roman, and does not have any other National ties, It cannot be called Catholic (Universal). Only Orthodoxy is truly Universal (Catholic) because the Church has other Nationalities (Churches) other than just one Nationality. The Roman Church has cut itself off from all of the other Churches of Christ.

Not true. There are a large number of Eastern Churches that are part of the Catholic Church, the Maronites being the oldest and best example, but theres also Greek, Ukrainian, Byzantine, Russian, and Croatian Catholic Churches to name a few. Sure none of your Patriarchs came over, but many of your churches did, and some like the Maronites have always remained loyal to the Pope.

Also you have to admit the Orthodoxy is no where near as widespread as Catholicism

A large number of people will never be Christian (Matthew 7:13-14).

So what the Church is confined to a very small minority? The duty of the Church is to bring every soul under her wings and to shepherd all men towards salvation.

 

[resurrection33]

If you look closely at the text, Jesus is talking to his disciples and apostles. Though you could refer it to speaking about you yourself, the text is talking about then and there; not talking about us necessarily (though you can interpret it as talking about us).

Well, if you come to think that the entire New Testament is referring to you here and now and not to then and there, then naturally, you are following your ego and in delusion.

For how will you know what the Holy Scriptures is talking about unless someone guide you?


Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

The words of Jesus are directed towards all of us.

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

The words of Jesus are directed towards all of us.

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

 

[resurrection33]

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

No, the Lord's words are directed towards us all.

 

[resurrection33]

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

Jesus Christ is God in flesh. God decided to come to earth in a human body and did so as Jesus Christ.He taught us how to make our lives a paradise. This is done by removing sin from our lives:From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[resurrection33]

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

Christ’s words were brought to us through the testimony of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[resurrection33]

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

The Lord can, and does, speak directly to us.

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

Jesus Christ is God in flesh. God decided to come to earth in a human body and did so as Jesus Christ.He taught us how to make our lives a paradise. This is done by removing sin from our lives:From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Yes, you are right, but the Gospel of John (and indeed the whole Bible) is a very theological book and must be interpreted by inspired teachers. You cannot take the doctrine of Christ and understand the Full Mystery of it without the teachers.


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.



Have you ever read Church History? This was what the first 800 years of the Church was about, "The Knowledge of the Son of God". St Paul's words do not lie. Are we to just disregard these verses and think that we all have just magically attained to the "Unity of the Faith, and the Knowledge of the Son of God" by reading the Bible? You cannot have this Full Knowledge without the Church, for it is the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15). You must understand that the Bible is not to be read like an encyclopedia, it is a Sacred text which needs special attention and interpretation.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but holy men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


No private interpretations allowed, only holy men of God.

 

[resurrection33]

The Gospel of John is not, the Gospel of John are directed only towards those who have been initiated into the Mysteries of God.

The Gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark are the Gospels for those who are going to be initiated into the Mysteries of God.


Who gave us the words of Jesus? The Church did. It was the Church who chose what was a Sacred writing and what was not. I don't like to repeat myself but this is why the Church is the 'Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15).

People who follow their egos, rather than the Lord, don’t find peace.

 

[resurrection33]

Yes, you are right, but the Gospel of John (and indeed the whole Bible) is a very theological book and must be interpreted by inspired teachers. You cannot take the doctrine of Christ and understand the Full Mystery of it without the teachers.


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.



Have you ever read Church History? This was what the first 800 years of the Church was about, "The Knowledge of the Son of God". St Paul's words do not lie. Are we to just disregard these verses and think that we all have just magically attained to the "Unity of the Faith, and the Knowledge of the Son of God" by reading the Bible? You cannot have this Full Knowledge without the Church, for it is the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15). You must understand that the Bible is not to be read like an encyclopedia, it is a Sacred text which needs special attention and interpretation.

It is ours to obey the teachings of Jesus, whether they be in Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John.

 

[resurrection33]

It is ours to obey the teachings of Jesus, whether they be in Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John.

Whoops, I quoted the wrong post. Read my next post, please.

 

[resurrection33]

Yes, you are right, but the Gospel of John (and indeed the whole Bible) is a very theological book and must be interpreted by inspired teachers. You cannot take the doctrine of Christ and understand the Full Mystery of it without the teachers.


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.



Have you ever read Church History? This was what the first 800 years of the Church was about, "The Knowledge of the Son of God". St Paul's words do not lie. Are we to just disregard these verses and think that we all have just magically attained to the "Unity of the Faith, and the Knowledge of the Son of God" by reading the Bible? You cannot have this Full Knowledge without the Church, for it is the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15). You must understand that the Bible is not to be read like an encyclopedia, it is a Sacred text which needs special attention and interpretation.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but holy men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


No private interpretations allowed, only holy men of God.

...


Whoops, I quoted the wrong thing in my last post. Let me do this post again:Church history has nothing to do with my soul. The teachings of Jesus are all that matter.

 

[resurrection33]

Yes, you are right, but the Gospel of John (and indeed the whole Bible) is a very theological book and must be interpreted by inspired teachers. You cannot take the doctrine of Christ and understand the Full Mystery of it without the teachers.


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.



Have you ever read Church History? This was what the first 800 years of the Church was about, "The Knowledge of the Son of God". St Paul's words do not lie. Are we to just disregard these verses and think that we all have just magically attained to the "Unity of the Faith, and the Knowledge of the Son of God" by reading the Bible? You cannot have this Full Knowledge without the Church, for it is the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15). You must understand that the Bible is not to be read like an encyclopedia, it is a Sacred text which needs special attention and interpretation.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but holy men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


No private interpretations allowed, only holy men of God.

You are right. A commandment is a commandment. Either you obey it or you don’t.

 

[resurrection33]

Yes, you are right, but the Gospel of John (and indeed the whole Bible) is a very theological book and must be interpreted by inspired teachers. You cannot take the doctrine of Christ and understand the Full Mystery of it without the teachers.


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.



Have you ever read Church History? This was what the first 800 years of the Church was about, "The Knowledge of the Son of God". St Paul's words do not lie. Are we to just disregard these verses and think that we all have just magically attained to the "Unity of the Faith, and the Knowledge of the Son of God" by reading the Bible? You cannot have this Full Knowledge without the Church, for it is the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15). You must understand that the Bible is not to be read like an encyclopedia, it is a Sacred text which needs special attention and interpretation.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but holy men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


No private interpretations allowed, only holy men of God.

Like I say, people who follow their egos instead of the Lord don’t find peace.

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

People who follow their egos, rather than the Lord, don’t find peace.

It is ours to obey the teachings of Jesus, whether they be in Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John.

You are right. A commandment is a commandment. Either you obey it or you don’t.

You keep on talking about the Commandments when you don't even understand where the Commandments of Christ came from.. Did you know that the 4 Gospels that we know of today, were selected and approved for use by the early Church Fathers? In fact, the entire New Testament which we all revere so much was approved and selected by the early Church Fathers. Because the Church is "The Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

If it ever said that the Bible was the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), I would have no means by which I could prove the authenticity of the Bible. It would be like for me to sign a contract without even knowing what the contract said. Or, its like buying something extremely valuable (gold perhaps) without checking to see whether it was genuine or not.
You are taking the flame of God's Holy Spirit and confining it only to One Book, and by this extinguishing and nullifying the operation of the Holy Spirit and its unifying action in God's Saints, " The evangelists, pastors and teachers" (Ephesians 4:11)

Bible Alone is not the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), for there is no proof even that the Bible itself is authentic without the voice of the Church and Her Fathers.

The Bible itself does not teach Bible Alone, this is not the Teaching of the Church Fathers, and it is not the teaching all Orthodox Christians throughout the History of Christianity.

 

[resurrection33]

You keep on talking about the Commandments when you don't even understand where the Commandments of Christ came from.. Did you know that the 4 Gospels that we know of today, were selected and approved for use by the early Church Fathers? In fact, the entire New Testament which we all revere so much was approved and selected by the early Church Fathers. Because the Church is "The Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

If it ever said that the Bible was the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), I would have no means by which I could prove the authenticity of the Bible. It would be like for me to sign a contract without even knowing what the contract said. Or, its like buying something extremely valuable (gold perhaps) without checking to see whether it was genuine or not.
You are taking the flame of God's Holy Spirit and confining it only to One Book, and by this extinguishing and nullifying the operation of the Holy Spirit and its unifying action in God's Saints, " The evangelists, pastors and teachers" (Ephesians 4:11)

Bible Alone is not the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), for there is no proof even that the Bible itself is authentic without the voice of the Church and Her Fathers.

The Bible itself does not teach Bible Alone, this is not the Teaching of the Church Fathers, and it is not the teaching all Orthodox Christians throughout the History of Christianity.

By obeying the Lord’s commandments, we keep trouble out of our lives. When we sin, we experience the consequences of our sin, which are always unpleasant. That is why the Lord told us not to sin. To find peace, you must not sin. This will always be true.

 

[resurrection33]

You keep on talking about the Commandments when you don't even understand where the Commandments of Christ came from.. Did you know that the 4 Gospels that we know of today, were selected and approved for use by the early Church Fathers? In fact, the entire New Testament which we all revere so much was approved and selected by the early Church Fathers. Because the Church is "The Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

If it ever said that the Bible was the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), I would have no means by which I could prove the authenticity of the Bible. It would be like for me to sign a contract without even knowing what the contract said. Or, its like buying something extremely valuable (gold perhaps) without checking to see whether it was genuine or not.
You are taking the flame of God's Holy Spirit and confining it only to One Book, and by this extinguishing and nullifying the operation of the Holy Spirit and its unifying action in God's Saints, " The evangelists, pastors and teachers" (Ephesians 4:11)

Bible Alone is not the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), for there is no proof even that the Bible itself is authentic without the voice of the Church and Her Fathers.

The Bible itself does not teach Bible Alone, this is not the Teaching of the Church Fathers, and it is not the teaching all Orthodox Christians throughout the History of Christianity.

I never said the Bible alone was sufficient for salvation. However, the teachings found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the words of Jesus, who was God in flesh. These teachings are to be obeyed. And yes, the first, and great, commandment is that we are to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and souls. In other words, we are to develop a personal relationship with him. We will learn by listening to what he says directly to us.

 

[resurrection33]

You keep on talking about the Commandments when you don't even understand where the Commandments of Christ came from.. Did you know that the 4 Gospels that we know of today, were selected and approved for use by the early Church Fathers? In fact, the entire New Testament which we all revere so much was approved and selected by the early Church Fathers. Because the Church is "The Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

If it ever said that the Bible was the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), I would have no means by which I could prove the authenticity of the Bible. It would be like for me to sign a contract without even knowing what the contract said. Or, its like buying something extremely valuable (gold perhaps) without checking to see whether it was genuine or not.
You are taking the flame of God's Holy Spirit and confining it only to One Book, and by this extinguishing and nullifying the operation of the Holy Spirit and its unifying action in God's Saints, " The evangelists, pastors and teachers" (Ephesians 4:11)

Bible Alone is not the "Ground and Pillar of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), for there is no proof even that the Bible itself is authentic without the voice of the Church and Her Fathers.

The Bible itself does not teach Bible Alone, this is not the Teaching of the Church Fathers, and it is not the teaching all Orthodox Christians throughout the History of Christianity.

Actually, I never said the Bible saved ANYBODY. It is the Lord who saves.