Is this bishop telling the truth about sun-day? Video less than 4 minutes.

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#41
my friend, can you show the verse where the Messiah broke the Sabbath commandment?

or just where He was accused of breaking His Father's commandment?
it was already posted in this thread by someone else...john 5:18...
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#42
it was already posted in this thread by someone else...john 5:18...

Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."Matthew 12:12 (ESV2011, MBM)

look closely.
did he say, "don't worry about the Sabbath, it is abolished"?
did he say, "I can break the Sabbath all I want"?
did he say, "you are not under the law, but under grace"?

no, he said "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"
he wrote the commandment. I am pretty sure he knows more about it than the Pharisees.

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#43
Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."Matthew 12:12 (ESV2011, MBM)

look closely.
did he say, "don't worry about the Sabbath, it is abolished"?
did he say, "I can break the Sabbath all I want"?
did he say, "you are not under the law, but under grace"?

no, he said "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"
he wrote the commandment. I am pretty sure he knows more about it than the Pharisees.
Luke 18:19 [FONT=&quot]And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

[/FONT]
Matthew 5:48 [FONT=&quot]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[/FONT]
Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]
Hebrews 4:10 [FONT=&quot]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


[/FONT]
There's been a change hasn't there? Can you see it yet???

Hebrews 7:12-16
[FONT=&quot]12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Here's a little more help.

Romans 9:31-32
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#44
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


There's been a change hasn't there? Can you see it yet???

Hebrews 7:12-16
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Here's a little more help.

Romans 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
nice list of verses. Scripture is always good.
not sure how you are using it here though.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#45
I agree witch RachelBibleStudent.

This man is (as many catholics) giving too much authority to RCC. Similar to their claim they gave us the Bible and many others.

In fact, "first day of the week" was the church day for meetings and celebrations by the end of the first century, in the second etc.

We can find this practice in the writings of the first church.

Long before the RCC even existed.
 
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#46
I agree witch RachelBibleStudent.

This man is (as many catholics) giving too much authority to RCC.

In fact, "first day of the week" was the church day for meetings and celebrations by the end of the first century, in the second etc.

We can find this practice in the writings of the first church.

Long before the RCC even existed.
negative.
I do not agree.
The early church met on the Sabbath.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#47
negative.
I do not agree.
The early church met on the Sabbath.
It is not about agreement, but about historical writings. YOU CAN find it in them.

Barnabas 15:8-9 (80 AD)
Ignatios to Magnesians 9:1 (105 AD)
Diognetus 4:1 (115 AD)
 
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#48
It is not about agreement, but about historical writings. YOU CAN find it in them.

Barnabas 15:8-9
Ignatios to Magnesians 9:1
Diognetus 4:1
I have seen the writings Trofimus.
Political influence among secular historians is not new.
Read Josephus.
Matthew, Mark, Luke John, Acts, Exodus...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#49
I have seen the writings Trofimus.
Political influence among secular historians is not new.
Read Josephus.
Matthew, Mark, Luke John, Acts, Exodus...
I am not sure what you mean by this. The topic is, if it was RCC who "changed" Saturday to Sunday.

Historically - no, it was not. Because Sunday was the "Christian day" long before RCC.

Discussing Exodus has no impact on this fact.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#50
I am not sure what you mean by this. The topic is, if it was RCC who "changed" Saturday to Sunday.

Historically - no, it was not. Because Sunday was the "Christian day" long before RCC.

Discussing Exodus has no impact on this fact.
brother, you can say that.
I say different.
The guy in the video is quoting historical documents that can still be seen.
A wise man once said: "A person will only quote the historians that agree with him".

so, with that, I guess we need to stick with Scripture.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#51
brother, you can say that.
I say different.
The guy in the video is quoting historical documents that can still be seen.
A wise man once said: "A person will only quote the historians that agree with him".

so, with that, I guess we need to stick with Scripture.
I am not "saying" that. I gave you the sources that are from the 1st and 2nd centuries. YOU CAN FIND IT in them.

Sticking with Scripture has no impact on what historically happened after the Scripture was written down.
 
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#52
I am not "saying" that. I gave you the sources that are from the 1st and 2nd centuries. YOU CAN FIND IT in them.

Sticking with Scripture has no impact on "what historically happened after the Scripture was written down".
again, we disagree.
The political outreach of Rome was already in power even in the first century.
Do you think they didn't own a few writers?

Josephus teaches us a lot about the Sabbath, historically speaking.
He is a real Jewish historian.

Even with that, let's say you are right, (and I don't think you are), let's pretend the 2nd century church changed the day.
They would have had no authority to do so.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#53
again, we disagree.
The political outreach of Rome was already in power even in the first century.
Do you think they didn't own a few writers?

Josephus teaches us a lot about the Sabbath, historically speaking.
He is a real Jewish historian.

Even with that, let's say you are right, (and I don't think you are), let's pretend the 2nd century church changed the day.
They would have had no authority to do so.
Josephus was a Jew. Its natural he wrote about sabbath. I dont see your point.

I am giving you CHRISTIAN sources, about the day CHURCH was using for meeting.

I think you are still talking about something different than the topic.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#54
Josephus was a Jew. Its natural he wrote about sabbath. I dont see your point.

I am giving you CHRISTIAN sources, about the day CHURCH was using for meeting.

I think you are still talking about something different than the topic.
The guy in the video is quoting historical documents. "Christian" historical documents.

if historians are telling two different stories, someone has to be lying, or deceived.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
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#55
The guy in the video is quoting historical documents. "Christian" historical documents.

if historians are telling two different stories, someone has to be lying, or deceived.
I am not talking about ANY historian.

I am giving you CHRISTIAN writings from the first and second century.

RCC is from the 4th.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#56
I am not talking about ANY historian.

I am giving you CHRISTIAN writings from the first and second century.

RCC is from the 4th.
sir, it is historical documents that you are referencing.
again, Rome was the political authority even in the FIRST century.
don't put your trust in letters. they can't over-ride God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#58
sir, it is historical documents that you are referencing.
again, Rome was the political authority even in the FIRST century.
don't put your trust in letters. they can't over-ride God.
Rome was not political authority over church in the first century, Christians were killed both by Romans and Jews.

Ignatios was killed by Romans too.

If you dont believe Christian writers from the first centuries, I have no idea what source from this age you want to use.. Jewish? Roman? Which ones exactly?
 
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#59
Rome was not political authority over church in the first century, christians were killed. Ignatios was killed by Romans too.

If you dont believe Christian writers from the first centuries, I have no idea what source from this age you want to use.. jewish?
what?
there are Christian writers in the Bible.

Rome was in political control of Israel when the Messiah walked this earth.
Rome's pagan religions were already creeping in. (Sun-god worship)
Can you deny that?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#60
what?
there are Christian writers in the Bible.

Rome was in political control of Israel when the Messiah walked this earth.
Rome's pagan religions were already creeping in. (Sun-god worship)
Can you deny that?
Ignatios was given to lions by Romans. What roman political infuence on him are you talking about, exactly?

The fact that you dont like the sunday being the day of the Church makes you come with many absurd accusations of martyrs.

What source do you use about the day of the Church AFTER the NT was written down?