Is YOUR church doctrinal statement ONE with SATAN?

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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Perhaps unicorns are not fictional animals at all since they are mentioned in the bible. Could be a figurative reference but I'm trending towards literal.
It's 99% that it referred to rhinoceros, but also there are sheep and goats with only one horn even today, it's a natural genetic mutation.
Still not a horsie, but a lot closer. :) I don't know about this second video (they move the cam a lot but see 0:11), but the first is legit...
 

jaybo

Active member
Jun 5, 2020
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The translation that I use most often is the NET Bible, v 2.1 Not only is it an excellent rendition of the best texts available, but there are about 60,000(!) translators' notes that explain the decisions made by the translators to produce the text, and also there are notes that explain possible ambiguities in the ancient languages.

As I have said over and over and over... there is no such thing as a perfect translation, nor can there be. God gave us his Word to be understood thoroughly, so it is the best meaning of the ancient texts that is most important. That is what I look for in every translation that I use.

BTW, King James ordered that the explanatory notes provided in earlier Bible translation be removed so that only what he approved was the definitive Bible, according to him. Guess what? He was simply an imperfect human ruler who wanted the Bible to mean what he alone said it meant. Like all translations, the KJV is imperfect; it is not the Word of God.

Can anyone show me verifiable proof the the KJV is the perfect Word of God? Off the wall opinions are unacceptable.
 

jaybo

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It's 99% that it referred to rhinoceros, but also there are sheep and goats with only one horn even today, it's a natural genetic mutation.
Still not a horsie, but a lot closer. :) I don't know about this second video, but the first is legit...
Then why doesn't say rhinoceros? Weren't there any hippos in the 17th Century? It says, "unicorn"; if the KJV translators were infallible why didn't they say "rhinoceros"?

BTW, can you spell "airbrush"?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Then why doesn't say rhinoceros? Weren't there any hippos in the 17th Century? It says, "unicorn"; if the KJV translators were infallible why didn't they say "rhinoceros"?

BTW, can you spell "airbrush"?
errbrush
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Then why doesn't say rhinoceros? Weren't there any hippos in the 17th Century? It says, "unicorn"; if the KJV translators were infallible why didn't they say "rhinoceros"?
I think that since rhinoceros doesn't live in Europe, that people simply didn't know what was being talked about and imagined pictures in their own heads (paintings, mythology, etc) which altered and charged the semantics of the word "unicorn" to mean "a horselike creature with one horn". I may be wrong, that's just what I'm thinking. The translation is still accurate, it's the semantic load in the languages that changes over time. Languages aren't unchanging, like the Word of God. I think people put too much importance upon a book. The book is a pointer to God. Jesus is the Word of God. The book never had to be perfect, it only needed to be sufficiently preserved by His power to perform His work.

Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

This in itself is declaring that languages on Earth aren't pure.
What is this pure language, I suppose everyone will have different ideas about it...
I believe it's spoken in one's heart, the flaming tongues of the Holy Spirit that inhabits all believers.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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As I have said over and over and over... there is no such thing as a perfect translation, nor can there be.
Umm good opinion but with no scripture to back up your claim. Seems your info is in grave defect and remember too opinions without scripture is unacceptable.

First, God did the translating.

Colossians 1:13 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextWho hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Hebrews 11:5 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextBy faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Second, the Roman Soldiers nailed the superscription at the top of the cross of Jesus written in Hebrew, Greek and in Latin.

Luke 23:38 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

John 19:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextThis title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

Third, Paul spake in Hebrew tongue but translated by Luke in Greek.

Acts Chapter 21

38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?

39 But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto [them] in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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It may have been at that time, I don't know. Maybe it wasn't, maybe it was like the NASB translators trying to translate God's word outside of God.
That was the KJV translators going out on their own under directive of a king who appointed himself head of the church. Then oppressed everyone who refused to use his Bible.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Have you ever seen/used a farthing? No? Well neither did the people of Jesus' time!! A farthing is a former monetary unit and coin of the UK, withdrawn in 1961, equal to a quarter of an old penny. So the translators had to use some word that people understood -- in 1611. Very few people have any idea what a farthing is.
Im old enough to remember the Farthing it had a Wren on the reverse side which is the smallest bird in the UK. It was next to worthless thats why it was scrapped just as the Decimal Halfpenny as scrapped a few years after that system came in. It wouldnt get you out of Prison in 1961. Im not sure when the Mite vanished though.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You completely missed the parable in the sparrow story. There were 2 sparrows (Old Testament and New Testament believers) bought for a farthing. A farthing is the amount paid to get of prison. Jesus paid that price to purchase the sparrows.
seeing that a farthing wasn't a unit of money until the 13th century, there is no way that Jesus ((or any other 1st century Jew for that matter)) paid a farthing for anything.

in Matthew's text it's an assarion. kjv is wrong. it is not perfect by the same standards you guys use to judge other translations into the foreign language called English.
 

breno785au

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Jul 23, 2013
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seeing that a farthing wasn't a unit of money until the 13th century, there is no way that Jesus ((or any other 1st century Jew for that matter)) paid a farthing for anything.

in Matthew's text it's an assarion. kjv is wrong. it is not perfect by the same standards you guys use to judge other translations into the foreign language called English.
If KJV translators used the farthing to help the reader understand how much was paid, then we need to understand how much a farthing is modern currency, therefore new translation required. :LOL:

Let it be known, autocorrect tried to spell farthing as farting.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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If KJV translators used the farthing to help the reader understand how much was paid, then we need to understand how much a farthing is modern currency, therefore new translation required. :LOL:

Let it be known, autocorrect tried to spell farthing as farting.
the word is assarion. a Roman unit of currency. the text ought to just say assarion. it's impossible to translate this into any unit of currency that will make it correct throughout time. NIV is wrong to say penny and KJV is wrong to say farthing.
same issue with the two-drachma in Matthew 17:24. it's drachma, a Greek money.


it may seem spurious or inconsequential but the kjv-ists argument rests on the highest of all standards; this group literally says the KJV is superior to the original Greek & Hebrew. it's ridiculous. 'farthing' is not better than assarion; God chose to inspire "assarion" -- for us farthing is just as much a foreign & ancient unused currency as the one in the actual Word as it was written.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Eternal life has no beginning or end. I was always saved in God's mind and cannot be lost. Because He, not me is in charge.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

breno785au

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Jul 23, 2013
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the word is assarion. a Roman unit of currency. the text ought to just say assarion. it's impossible to translate this into any unit of currency that will make it correct throughout time. NIV is wrong to say penny and KJV is wrong to say farthing.
same issue with the two-drachma in Matthew 17:24. it's drachma, a Greek money.
Yes, I remember receiving drachma in Assassin's Creed odyssey :ROFL:
 

jaybo

Active member
Jun 5, 2020
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the word is assarion. a Roman unit of currency. the text ought to just say assarion. it's impossible to translate this into any unit of currency that will make it correct throughout time. NIV is wrong to say penny and KJV is wrong to say farthing.
same issue with the two-drachma in Matthew 17:24. it's drachma, a Greek money.


it may seem spurious or inconsequential but the kjv-ists argument rests on the highest of all standards; this group literally says the KJV is superior to the original Greek & Hebrew. it's ridiculous. 'farthing' is not better than assarion; God chose to inspire "assarion" -- for us farthing is just as much a foreign & ancient unused currency as the one in the actual Word as it was written.
If the English text says assarion nobody (except perhaps you) what that meant; they had to say something that was the equivalent of
a small amount of money (with perhaps a footnote). Hence the NIV's "penny" and the KJV's "farthing", which of course means nothing to 21st Century readers.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Easter has already been proven to be the correct word pointing to Christ our Passover who was sacrificed for us, as used after the resurrection.
you're absolutely wrong. the word is Pascha. it means Passover. it is an Hebrew word inserted into all the Greek and all the Latin and did not begin to be substituted with a pagan dawn goddesses's name until German translations of the middle ages, during a time when all 'Jewishness' was being violently removed from Christianity.

see this thread starting with post#118 ((which should be what the link takes you to)) and moving on for the next 20 pages or so:


https://christianchat.com/threads/your-bible-translation.184792/post-3924817


@John146 you ought to be ashamed. you were active in the thread i am linking to so you have no excuse not to know this. :(


people need to know the truth. they don't need a false idealism, they need the truth. the truth is that the Bible was not written in English and sometimes there's just no satisfactory way to 100% render it in this foreign language.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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If the English text says assarion nobody (except perhaps you) what that meant; they had to say something that was the equivalent of
a small amount of money (with perhaps a footnote). Hence the NIV's "penny" and the KJV's "farthing", which of course means nothing to 21st Century readers.
what, to us is ought to be "C-note" because currently a sparrow is $50 or $60 ??
but how much does a sparrow cost 50 years from now? how much did one cost 100 years ago?


there's two choices when it comes to translating this: leave it as assarion or substitute a unit of money that only makes sense in a very narrow window of time to a very narrow group of people. KJV chose to use something that can only be described as 'a good translation' for a few years to a relatively small number of people. after that, and to anyone outside of the British commercial empire, it is not a good translation at all, much less a "perfect one even better than the Greek"

if we're going to use a currency unfamiliar to us it may as well be assarion because assarion is what Matthew wrote, what the Holy Spirit inspired. of course i'm not familiar with that money, but i can read it and immediately tell that it must mean some unit of money and from the context it must not be an extravagant amount. i don't need to be dragged into Elizabethan UK economics to understand what's being said. if i'm going to be necessarily introduced to a foreign unit of money that's not necessarily representative of today's prices and isn't even used anymore, then the "perfect" way to translate this is to leave it alone and let it say assarion like it actually says.

the alternative is update the Bible every year with a new USD or Euro or Canadian dollar amount reflecting the current market price. which i see as insane. so the "perfect" thing to do is let assarion = assarion. ergo KJ Version is not perfect. QED.
 

jaybo

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Jun 5, 2020
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So what? I don't equate it with the Word of God; no translation is the pure Word of God (which actually doesn't exist in its original form.) What it means in Revelation is exactly what it mean when it says in John1:14, "Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory—the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. "
On the other hand I am not going to pull a phrase from Revelation to prove anything about Bible translations. Jesus is the logos -- the manifestation of God --, he is not a phrase.

As the Logos, Jesus Christ is God in self-revelation (Light) and redemption (Life). ... Jesus Christ not only gives God's Word to us humans; he is the Word. The Logos is God, begotten and therefore distinguishable from the Father, but, being God, of the same substance (essence). "