Israel

[Rogue]

Sorry wrong again, Christ told us Christians to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves and Paul told us to expose evil which is what judism is.

What you won't find me doing is going on a jewish website and arguing who and who can't be a religious jew

Touche. You're good =P

 

[MahogonySnail]

This makes no sense to say they "were a group". Revelations is the book of the Apocalypse, written for Christians in the last days. Revelations means to reveal, to let us know. Now the only two churches that God didn't have a charge against is Philadelphia and Smyrna. Now God didn't write a whole lot to each church and He doesn't waste words. Why would they be wasted on a such small group? They aren't about some mysterious small group, His teachings are about the world stage. Both churches He had no charge against mention the "jewish conspiracy"

Wrong. It's primary purpose is not for christians in the last days but for the churches at the time. Jesus is talking about the churches that existed at that time. This book was distributed to those churches so they could read it and get encouragement.

 

[Dutch41]

True Israel is the faithful remnant of children of Abraham or children of faith who are currently blinded so that Gentiles can be grafted in so that would mean Israel is ALSO Gentiles who believe in the Messiah which are now grafted into Israel (romans 11).

Based on some of your previous posts (a while back) regarding Calvinism, which I believe you hold to, my guess would be you also believe in Covenant theology.



Try to look at it this way....

Picture two Jewish people, both are circumcised physically, one is NOT circumcised of the heart by the Spirit and the other is circumcised of the heart.

Now, out of these two Jews, which is the TRUE Jew?

It wouldn't really make sense for Paul to be saying, or even insist he would be saying that a Gentile is a Jew, when he is an apostle to the Gentiles. I think he was just contrasting between two Jews and who is the true Jew out of the two? The one who is rightly circumcised of the heart.


No.

Who is Israel.. well I think you are right. Further I want to say: Here in Holland, the most faithful friends for Israel are the Reformed Christians. Really...

Here in Holland the most of the Reformed Christians, are pro the covenant theory but against the substitute theory. (Yes it can the same)

We have a paper that is called Christenen voor Israel.. (Christians for Israel) and there is a website
in Dutch but in English too....
Christians for Israel International - Start your biblical journey to understand Israel and the Church in the end times

 

[phil36]

Phil you should have given the website reference for what you posted:

WHO IS ISRAEL

Maybe you need a dose of your own advice? : You have made a fool of yourself again Mahogony, I did say it was not my words and this is in book form also research, research Mahaogony.




Now here is a website that explains the difficulties in the Reformed theologies view of Israel and the reasons for it:
Exactly what is Reformed theology?* -- John MacArthur

John MacArthur is Reformed yet holds a premellinial view,and he is very convincing on covenant and land. But it really is old old news and suprise suprise he is not the only reforemd to hold that view..shockk hoorroorr.


A more thorough website of resources to explain what Israel is and related questions can be found here:
Ariel Ministries: Downloads

Unlike the reformed website you posted, this author Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum is an expert on Israelology and in my opinion the best I've found :
Arnold Fruchtenbaum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't comment on this guy, I have never heard Of Him



So once again ignorance is blis, What I posted is in book form aslo, I thought you maybe would have known that..then again maybe not.

 

[phil36]

Once again you research skills show less than adequate Mahogony the website address you give is Is not the same.. they have borrowed the content Plus you didn't happen to notice a big book beside the Article??? I take it you have read this in your research on debating the article I posted?

Phil

 

[phil36]

Who is Israel.. well I think you are right. Further I want to say: Here in Holland, the most faithful friends for Israel are the Reformed Christians. Really...

Here in Holland the most of the Reformed Christians, are pro the covenant theory but against the substitute theory. (Yes it can the same)

We have a paper that is called Christenen voor Israel.. (Christians for Israel) and there is a website
in Dutch but in English too....
Christians for Israel International - Start your biblical journey to understand Israel and the Church in the end times

Hi Dutch I enjoy your posts, and i find your english probably better than mine lol

I don't think any of us will agree on anything pertaing to the end times. there are basically 3 main points:

• Amillenial
• premilleniall
• postmillenial

and every possible thing you can think of in-between, some say there is a rapture, some say there is not, some say the rapture is pre, and some say post.

Some read revelation linear some read it as once in historical time, others say none of it has happened yet.

And the amazing thing is everyone is right in their understanding. can this be true.

One thing we can be sure of and revelation tells us, that, Christ has victory over Evil and that he will come back once again for once and all time. another message we all can take comfort in this no matter what you believe about the eschaton, is that no matter what trials you are going through, your saviour has victory over it.

I think I have heard so far every one of the above opinions and no one on here can agree with each other.. premillenials are cannot agree when the rapture occurs as with post millenialls.. etc etc. but one thing we can be sure of and that is Christ is coming back.

Phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

Phil, the website I posted that you had a problem with - the content was also from a book called "will the real heretics please stand up". I notice you did exactly the same thing though. After warning me about websites lol. But you copied and pasted the content of that website without even referencing it. I thought it looked familiar because I have read it before. The website is word for word identical to what you posted. Yes there is a book. But surely you didn't type word for word out of the book ? You should have at least referenced the book then. You would have been picked up for plagiarism at any university. Proper referencing is the first thing to learn if you want to talk about research skills. As far as research skills go, I think I would be far more experienced and qualified. Your beloved reformed theology website's (or book's) airy fairy musings merely skim the top of the subject of Israelogy, and have nothing on the deep wisdom and insights of Dr Arnold F. That's the fault of reformed theology as it never had enough time to properly develop its views on Israel and the church or end times events, and is strongest in the area of salvation, not Israelogy. For someone who cannot acknowledge his sources properly, I don't think you're quite the person to be giving me advice about how to conduct research. Particularly since I have two degrees by higher research and am a reseacher by occupation . I do laugh when amateurs pretend to know more than they actually do.

 

[phil36]

well mahogony i am very suprised by the way you articulate yourself, that you have 2 degrees. and secondly the very fact that you do not know what reformed theology is, and argue against it show you are seriously lacking any form of debate. this would be called ignorance.

if you have '2' degrees' i would very much it is in the field that you are debating here i.e theology. now i have not got 2 degrees i have not got even 1. yet ii am not stupid enough to debtae without some sort of knowledge on the topic.

you have shown a hatred against reformed theology, and this is laughable as you co not even know what it is. ut hopefull you will now go and surf the web.. or some sort of site and find out

secondly, i visited the other site you posted and although i don not agree, i can have a respect his view, which respect is something you totally lack. this shows in all your posts.

phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

Of course it is not in the area of theology, but contrary to your statements I do know how to do research. I've been doing research for longer than you've been saved, actually. Although you have knowledge, you have put yourself forward as if you think you have some sort of research or academic credibility beyond the average joe. I think you are unwise to claim my research skills are poor or lacking, or lecture me on what scholarly works are. You're certainly not the first amateur researcher to think he knows more than he actually does. As I showed, you can't even reference properly, or admit where you actually get your sources from. I accept much of the reformed position. I do know what it is. But you have had trouble explaining yourself, about which flavour of reformed theology you actually believe in, despite "reformed theology" often being equated with "TULIP". But I should be critical of your narrow minded rejection of all sources or points of view which are non-reformed, as evidenced by the fact that you claim we shouldnt source websites - but you find it perfectly acceptable to source, without reference, a reformed website/ book. You shouldn't do that if you want to be a researcher.

 

[1still_waters]

I can browse the dewey decimal cards faster than any man on Earth! Can we get back on topic

Feel free to make a I research better than you thread in the Misc forums if you want to. But be forewarned, me and dewey decimal go back a long ways.

 

[livingbygrace]

well mahogony i am very suprised by the way you articulate yourself, that you have 2 degrees. and secondly the very fact that you do not know what reformed theology is, and argue against it show you are seriously lacking any form of debate. this would be called ignorance.

if you have '2' degrees' i would very much it is in the field that you are debating here i.e theology. now i have not got 2 degrees i have not got even 1. yet ii am not stupid enough to debtae without some sort of knowledge on the topic.

you have shown a hatred against reformed theology, and this is laughable as you co not even know what it is. ut hopefull you will now go and surf the web.. or some sort of site and find out

secondly, i visited the other site you posted and although i don not agree, i can have a respect his view, which respect is something you totally lack. this shows in all your posts.

phil

Who needs degrees!

Not many of you were wise by human standards

But God chose the foolissh things of this world to shame the wise. God chose the weak things of this world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly thinhgs of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are.

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world
For since in the wisdom ogf God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased throiugh the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight

Therefore as it is written. Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.

 

[livingbygrace]

Phil, the website I posted that you had a problem with - the content was also from a book called "will the real heretics please stand up". I notice you did exactly the same thing though. After warning me about websites lol. But you copied and pasted the content of that website without even referencing it. I thought it looked familiar because I have read it before. The website is word for word identical to what you posted. Yes there is a book. But surely you didn't type word for word out of the book ? You should have at least referenced the book then. You would have been picked up for plagiarism at any university. Proper referencing is the first thing to learn if you want to talk about research skills. As far as research skills go, I think I would be far more experienced and qualified. Your beloved reformed theology website's (or book's) airy fairy musings merely skim the top of the subject of Israelogy, and have nothing on the deep wisdom and insights of Dr Arnold F. That's the fault of reformed theology as it never had enough time to properly develop its views on Israel and the church or end times events, and is strongest in the area of salvation, not Israelogy. For someone who cannot acknowledge his sources properly, I don't think you're quite the person to be giving me advice about how to conduct research. Particularly since I have two degrees by higher research and am a reseacher by occupation . I do laugh when amateurs pretend to know more than they actually do.

Let him who boasts boast in the Lord

 

[phil36]

well this is not the first time that i have said that i am not aedemic, maybe you being an acedemic, you are slightly embarresed, i am not sure.

and tulip is only a short piecein a big document, but yes it does narrowly explain reformed theology.

secondly i am not an amature researcher, as i would not even class myself as an 'academic researcher' as you proclaim yourself to be.

i have read many of your posts going back quite awhile and i havent seen you qoute one source or say they are not your words yet i have.. and on a quite a few occasions have said''these are not my words' but opf course not being acedemic' and a scholar like you mahogony, i maybe do not know the correct procedure which you fail.

concerning websites, concerning websites there have been only a couple of incidents wherei have used material from online sources, without owignt the books by the authors..can you honestly say the same.. since you are way above me academically? and you have been researching for longer than i have been saved?

there is nothing i have said that puts me above the average joe in fact my education is probably far below the average person,,, i left school with absolutly no qualifications.. not one... yet stil amnged to find a employment alongside and above those who 'acedemic research giants' like yourself.

i have come across guys like you plenty of time especially here at my work where they think because they have an acedemic degree i should not be there, yet my work is on par with theirs, now this does not work in all fields and your degrees do not pertain to theology you are an amature just like everyone else mahogony and that seems to hurt you acedemic research knowledge

well maybe you have give me good advice maybe i should go and do a degree in theology. if i am capable? maybe i am not.

but you certainly do not and your degrees have nothing to do with theology, so you are intimating by your post because you are an 'acedemic research specialist' the rest of us are amateur in scripture.. actually just like you....


i just don't think you like not being able to put up a good argument and that you research skill are maybe lacking when it comes to theology, and that you may be wrong.. if i am wrong i am wrong, yet you cannot show this.. and that is against an amateur like me.. and you are the acedemic????

have a bless'd day mahogony.

from an amateur

phil

 

[phil36]

I can browse the dewey decimal cards faster than any man on Earth! Can we get back on topic

Feel free to make a I research better than you thread in the Misc forums if you want to. But be forewarned, me and dewey decimal go back a long ways.

lol dewey decimal.... my brain could never get to grips with that lol.

phil

 

[livingbygrace]

I doubt Peter, James, or John had degrees being itinerent fishermen, but they seemed to get by quite well with the Holy Spirit. I think it often helps not to have too much academic knowledge myself where God is concerned. But then I would say that lol

 

[MahogonySnail]

secondly i am not an amature researcher, as i would not even class myself as an 'academic researcher' as you proclaim yourself to be.

Then in your case, I would not even try to claim other people's research skills were lacking, their posts mere "diatribes", or lecture them about the difference between a book and a website, as you have. You've truly exalted yourself to be something you are not.

Now concerning my abilities in theology. If we are going to compare theology I should also point out I've been studying the bible daily for about 20 years, attended church regularly, have a good collection of theological books, a fairly broad network of christian contacts, and it appears you've been saved only 6 or 7 years (based on your profile). And having skill in research does give me transferable skills which I can apply to almost anything, even theology. I don't know your work situation but if you're canning beans for example next to another guy with a PhD doing the same job, of course you'd be able to say you do a good a job as him lol . But if that were really true, there'd be no need for higher education and most of us researchers would be out of a job. Just don't kid yourself.

 

[MahogonySnail]

So before you tell me one more time , that I dont' know what reformed theology is, or the Nicene creed, please take a good hard look at yourself, and consider who the real uneducated one is. You're like one of those parrots, screaming "reformed theology", "reformed theology". I've been in enough churches to know that calvinism and TULIP is not the be-all and end-all of christianity. And replacement theology is not the only view concerning Israel. (was that good enough to get back on topic? lol)

 

[phil36]

and you say you you can research,... i never said the guys i work beside have a Phd that is you assuming your opinions which once again prove your not interested in fact finding. so once again you show arrogance to debate.. more opinions than fact.

and because you say you have been saved for a long time does mean you have a sound scriptuiral knowledge , there are many who fool themselves because they say they have been saved for a long time they have a greater knowledge.. again you show arrogance.

I also have well stocked book cases, I love reading and read a lot of books. mainly theological.. Howard Marshall being a favourite. and behold he is not reformed.. of course louis berkoffs' systematic theology and grudems, along with the likes of schrieners nt theology, and NT wrights tomb's, that have been a huge undertaking (even though i do not agree with his theology) and i could go on and on and on. so i do not understand you point in fact the fact that you have a lot of books is a pointless point!

and of course, i will say that in the context that you used the nicene creeds either shows your ignorance as to why it was written or you though you would be smart and no one would catch you out

anyhow, it is pointless debating with such a learned 'reader' as yourself as i am only a mere un -intellectual

have fun, and i do hope one day you use the skills you say you have to learn abit about what you are trying to talk about.

kind regards

phil

 

[phil36]

So before you tell me one more time , that I dont' know what reformed theology is, or the Nicene creed, please take a good hard look at yourself, and consider who the real uneducated one is. You're like one of those parrots, screaming "reformed theology", "reformed theology". I've been in enough churches to know that calvinism and TULIP is not the be-all and end-all of christianity. And replacement theology is not the only view concerning Israel. (was that good enough to get back on topic? lol)

lol mahogony you sound more like an 8yr old child than a 'learned reader' or as you say a skilled 'researcher'

nice talking to you.

phil

 

[1still_waters]

I'm closing this thread since things seem to be getting personal and off topic. Please cool down guys and come back when the emotions are umm..not as agitated.