Israel

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#1
What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.
 

stepbystep

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2020
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#2
Possibly because of his struggle with God? To mark a special moment? To recognize the change in Jacob?

In Chapter 32 of Genesis, where Jacob wrestled with the angle, and prevailed against him, the angle (who was God?) made this statement: Thou name shall no more be called Jacob, but Israel; for as a Prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

In Chapter 35 of Genesis God made this statement: And God said unto him, thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not any more be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,574
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#4
What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.
That is Genesis 32:28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

So the meaning is given within the verse. Israel would be a prince before God and men. As applied to the nation, Israel would be the dominant nation on earth after the Second Coming of Christ, and after Israel has been redeemed and restored.

But Jacob prevailed only because the pre-incarnate Christ allowed him to prevail, but then He put his hip out of joint (to show that Jacob actually wrestled with God, not just a man or an angel).

The literal meaning Israel (Hebrew Yis.ra.el) has been variously interpreted, and actually is rather confused and confusing.

1. Strong's says it means "God strives", which is not really true.

2. Brown-Driver-Briggs says "El persisteth" or "El persevereth" or "Let El persist" (El meaning God). Which again does not fit.

3. Another interpretation is "God prevails" but that contradicts the verse itself, just as "God strives" contradicts that incident.

4. Then we have another interpretation "He will rule as God" which again is not biblical since no man can rule as God.

5. Then we have Gesenius saying it means "Contender" or "Solider of God" (which again does not fit the verse).

Therefore we should stick with what the verse actually says.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,658
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#5
What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.
Uhhh, to represent the nation that would come from Jacob's line. Pretty simple. And one other reason, Jacobites sounds weird.:)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,574
7,684
113
#7
Not entirely sure but what I do know is that Israel is the apple of God's eye.
What is truly amazing is the grace of God towards Jacob the deceiver (and subsequently towards the nation of Israel). Jacob did not start out as a man of faith, but eventually he did become one. And his wrestling with Christ (as the Angel of the LORD) was the point at which he was blessed by God.

And He [Christ] said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he [Jacob] said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And He [Christ] said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And He [Christ] said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed... And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God [the Angel of the LORD, Christ] face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen 32:26-28,30).

The Bible says that no man has seen God [the Father] at anytime. So it was the pre-incarnate Christ, who always appeared to men as "the Angel of the LORD" who wrestled with Jacob.

We see the infinite grace of God in this passage, in that Christ could have easily killed Jacob, let alone knocked him to the ground with one blow. Instead He allowed Jacob to wrestle with Him, and even told Jacob to let Him go! The only reason that Jacob "prevailed" was because Christ allowed him to prevail.

But after Jacob was blessed by Christ, he said that he had seen God face to face and lived. This is because if any mortal man would see God the Father in all His glory, he would die instantly. The Hebrew word Peniel is in fact Penuel or Pen.uw.el which literally means "the face God" (El = God). But Jesus said that blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believed.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#8
Possibly because of his struggle with God? To mark a special moment? To recognize the change in Jacob?

In Chapter 32 of Genesis, where Jacob wrestled with the angle, and prevailed against him, the angle (who was God?) made this statement: Thou name shall no more be called Jacob, but Israel; for as a Prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

In Chapter 35 of Genesis God made this statement: And God said unto him, thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not any more be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
So, how can we know when the scriptures contain the word "Israel" in them, whether they have reference to Jacob or the nation of Israel?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#9
That is Genesis 32:28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

So the meaning is given within the verse. Israel would be a prince before God and men. As applied to the nation, Israel would be the dominant nation on earth after the Second Coming of Christ, and after Israel has been redeemed and restored.

But Jacob prevailed only because the pre-incarnate Christ allowed him to prevail, but then He put his hip out of joint (to show that Jacob actually wrestled with God, not just a man or an angel).

The literal meaning Israel (Hebrew Yis.ra.el) has been variously interpreted, and actually is rather confused and confusing.

1. Strong's says it means "God strives", which is not really true.

2. Brown-Driver-Briggs says "El persisteth" or "El persevereth" or "Let El persist" (El meaning God). Which again does not fit.

3. Another interpretation is "God prevails" but that contradicts the verse itself, just as "God strives" contradicts that incident.

4. Then we have another interpretation "He will rule as God" which again is not biblical since no man can rule as God.

5. Then we have Gesenius saying it means "Contender" or "Solider of God" (which again does not fit the verse).

Therefore we should stick with what the verse actually says.
Do the scriptures uphold that all of the nation of Israel will be saved, Romans 11:26, Does God mean the whole nation of Israel, when he says that he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob? Is Israel, in this verse, referring to Jacob's new name, of "Israel", or the whole nation of Israel?

Thanks for correcting my misquoting the correct chapter in Genesis.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,035
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#10
Israel............ruling with El or Elohanu.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
#11
replacement theology alert 📢
Inheritance Theology Alert!

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
#12
Do the scriptures uphold that all of the nation of Israel will be saved, Romans 11:26, Does God mean the whole nation of Israel, when he says that he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob? Is Israel, in this verse, referring to Jacob's new name, of "Israel", or the whole nation of Israel?

Thanks for correcting my misquoting the correct chapter in Genesis.
Scripture clearly teaches the (Church) is the Israel of God, it also teaches only the chosen elect remnant Jew will be saved and (Added) to his church, the rest of ethnic Jews are blinded.

When the last name is added to the Lambs Book Of Life, then all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:5-7 & 26-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#13
Inheritance Theology Alert!

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Inheritance Theology Alert!

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Israel is erm .. Israel and erm the church is erm not Israel . Things different are not the same .
Not every descendant of Israel is guaranteed salvation on the basis of being of Israel.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#15
I don't have a clue what your acronym (erm) is :)
Not every descendant of Israel is guaranteed salvation on the basis of being of Israel. Thats what Romans 9 is saying. Not of works .
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#16
Scripture clearly teaches the (Church) is the Israel of God, it also teaches only the chosen elect remnant Jew will be saved and (Added) to his church, the rest of ethnic Jews are blinded.

When the last name is added to the Lambs Book Of Life, then all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:5-7 & 26-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Amen, I agree. Do you think God's decision to change Jacob's name to be called Israel, has anything to do with God's elect children?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
#18
Amen, I agree. Do you think God's decision to change Jacob's name to be called Israel, has anything to do with God's elect children?
Genesis 35:10-11KJV
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#19
Genesis 35:10-11KJV
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
What are your thoughts on the fact that most all of God's regenerated children, when studying the scriptures, interpret the word "Israel" as being the nation of Israel, and not even consider that the word "Israel" has reference to Jacob as Israel.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
#20
What are your thoughts on the fact that most all of God's regenerated children, when studying the scriptures, interpret the word "Israel" as being the nation of Israel, and not even consider that the word "Israel" has reference to Jacob as Israel.
When you study the subject, the current position of lifting up ethnic Jews (Israel) is part of the (Zionist) movement, Theodor Herzl 1896 in Switzerland.

The works of John N. Darby (Brethren) and C.I. Scofield (1909 Reference Bible) in modern day (Dispensationalism) promoted this, developing into today's (Christian Zionism) in the false teachings of Dual Covenant Theology, Two People's Of God, etc

Your study will find that the untold wealth of the Rothschild dynasty financially made it possible, as they purchased the Land, and built the government buildings (Knesset) (Supreme Court) in modern day Israel.

The scripture in Romans 9:6-8 clearly identifies two (Israel's) and clearly teaches the (Israel) of the flesh, (Ethnic Jews) are not the children of God.

(Israel) children of the promised seed, the chosen, elect, of all nations and races are the apple of God's eye, the (Church)

Wikipedia: The Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British government in 1917 during the First World War announcing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population. The declaration was contained in a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. The text of the declaration was published in the press on 9 November 1917.

The original letter from Balfour to Rothschild; the declaration reads:
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​