It's not an insult...

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
500
113
#1
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,685
2,206
113
#2
But intent is relevant. And typically when people make such statements it's With the intent to be an insult.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,529
113
#3
If it's coming from a Christian such as the apostles were... booming with the power of God, healing people, working miracles... otherwise is likely to be an insult, the thing is, evident power of God needs to back such offer up...
Coming in person, with true presence of God upon you, is a lot different than speaking to people on the internet, where we are all letters and numbers.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,783
4,895
113
#4
If it's coming from a Christian such as the apostles were... booming with the power of God, healing people, working miracles... otherwise is likely to be an insult, the thing is, evident power of God needs to back such offer up...
Coming in person, with true presence of God upon you, is a lot different than speaking to people on the internet, where we are all letters and numbers.
This is by no means a counter to your post for I am the first to be wary of the posted words of many.

I have actually recognized the Presence of the Holy Spirit in this forum with some posters but this is not saying that it is always spirit-filled.

I have felt the Presence in your posting many times. All blessings in Jesus- Yeshua, and keep up the works you are doing here, otherwise it, the forum, will be less of a blessing.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,722
2,992
113
#5
But intent is relevant. And typically when people make such statements it's With the intent to be an insult.
Come on! Your sister in Christ is just encouraging you to go higher... there’s MORE God has for you!

Remember, God says...”My Ways are HIGHER than yours....Come up hither!”
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,722
2,992
113
#6
If it's coming from a Christian such as the apostles were... booming with the power of God, healing people, working miracles... otherwise is likely to be an insult, the thing is, evident power of God needs to back such offer up...
Coming in person, with true presence of God upon you, is a lot different than speaking to people on the internet, where we are all letters and numbers.
No, the message comes with LOVE, NOT with signs and wonders. We got to know and recognize God’s love for us.

Satan has NO LOVE but, he will display signs and wonders.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,722
2,992
113
#7
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Listen, I AGREE with this post. It has been posted in the Spirit of Love ....God, our Father is calling us HIGHER.

We have to walk by the Holy Spirit. We have to walk by the power of His Love. Know, recognize, understand and love His Love for you.......abide. :love:(y)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,529
113
#8
No, the message comes with LOVE, NOT with signs and wonders. We got to know and recognize God’s love for us.
I was talking about what would prompt a person to respond more positively.
(I wrote with a presumption that the OP talked about people online, mainly.)
People are more likely to accept this from a person they know flows with the Holy Spirit strongly (doesn't matter the manifestation, you are right, but the presence is unmistakable), and best if knowing them in person. As opposed to someone whom they only know superficially, and/or online, and don't actually know a whole lot about them...

But probably the number 1 reason that people take it as insult, is they take it as a suggestion that they don't have the Holy Spirit (in spite of having believed the Gospel) unless some charismatic lays hands on them. Now this isn't my personal stance or anything, just an observation what happens in these exchanges on the forums.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,722
2,992
113
#9
I was talking about what would prompt a person to respond more positively.
(I wrote with a presumption that the OP talked about people online, mainly.)
People are more likely to accept this from a person they know flows with the Holy Spirit strongly (doesn't matter the manifestation, you are right, but the presence is unmistakable), and best if knowing them in person. As opposed to someone whom they only know superficially, and/or online, and don't actually know a whole lot about them...

But probably the number 1 reason that people take it as insult, is they take it as a suggestion that they don't have the Holy Spirit (in spite of having believed the Gospel) unless some charismatic lays hands on them. Now this isn't my personal stance or anything, just an observation what happens in these exchanges on the forums.
God spoke out of the mouth of a donkey.... do we really have to know the donkey personally or can we recognize the voice of love- God speaking- calling us to, “Come!”
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,529
113
#11
God spoke out of the mouth of a donkey.... do we really have to know the donkey personally or can we recognize the voice of love- God speaking- calling us to, “Come!”
It helps everyone a lot when people around are good lamps.

I didn't receive gift of tongues by the laying of hands, I prayed about it more like out of curiosity, to find out if it ceased or not. God surprised me quite a bit, and then endured all my scrutiny and checking... Husband does not speak in tongues but I've known him manifest some others of the 9 gifts.
(not teacher, preacher... I mean precisely the gifts of the Spirit)

Sis, I am honestly suspecting that those who don't speak in tongues (and we know from the Bible that the gifts are diverse, and not all speak in tongues) manifest the gifts of the Spirit other than tongues; have the hands been laid or not; and they aren't even aware of it.

If God gives you insight from above about how exactly to tackle a problem, this is Word of wisdom.
If you clearly discern by which spirit someone is working even though it's not obvious to others, this is Discerning of spirits.
If you supernaturally know some information, for God's purposes - it's always for God's purposes - (like Jesus knew the affairs of the woman at the well and used it to convert her) this is Word of knowledge.
If you have supernatural 100% assurance how things will go and how God will make a victory in a situation, this is Faith (different than the measure of a saving faith that all believers have).
And so on. People who do these and other things related to the 9 gifts, do have gifts of the Spirit, as He chose to distribute. Maybe it's just not tongues and interpretation.
In fact, I was thinking about these thoughts just this afternoon, this is an odd timing...:eek:
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,722
2,992
113
#12
It helps everyone a lot when people around are good lamps.

I didn't receive gift of tongues by the laying of hands, I prayed about it more like out of curiosity, to find out if it ceased or not. God surprised me quite a bit, and then endured all my scrutiny and checking... Husband does not speak in tongues but I've known him manifest some others of the 9 gifts.
(not teacher, preacher... I mean precisely the gifts of the Spirit)

Sis, I am honestly suspecting that those who don't speak in tongues (and we know from the Bible that the gifts are diverse, and not all speak in tongues) manifest the gifts of the Spirit other than tongues; have the hands been laid or not; and they aren't even aware of it.

If God gives you insight from above about how exactly to tackle a problem, this is Word of wisdom.
If you clearly discern by which spirit someone is working even though it's not obvious to others, this is Discerning of spirits.
If you supernaturally know some information, for God's purposes - it's always for God's purposes - (like Jesus knew the affairs of the woman at the well and used it to convert her) this is Word of knowledge.
If you have supernatural 100% assurance how things will go and how God will make a victory in a situation, this is Faith (different than the measure of a saving faith that all believers have).
And so on. People who do these and other things related to the 9 gifts, do have gifts of the Spirit, as He chose to distribute. Maybe it's just not tongues and interpretation.
In fact, I was thinking about these thoughts just this afternoon, this is an odd timing...:eek:
I am a FIRM believer in the operation of ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the edfying, equipping of the believers but, I also know that Satan can counterfeit the signs and wonders yet, Satan CANNOT counterfeit God’s Love of laying down a life for another.

We’re going to know and recognize other believers NOT by spiritual gifts but, by the love we have for one another.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
500
113
#13
I was talking about what would prompt a person to respond more positively.
(I wrote with a presumption that the OP talked about people online, mainly.)
People are more likely to accept this from a person they know flows with the Holy Spirit strongly (doesn't matter the manifestation, you are right, but the presence is unmistakable), and best if knowing them in person. As opposed to someone whom they only know superficially, and/or online, and don't actually know a whole lot about them...

But probably the number 1 reason that people take it as insult, is they take it as a suggestion that they don't have the Holy Spirit (in spite of having believed the Gospel) unless some charismatic lays hands on them. Now this isn't my personal stance or anything, just an observation what happens in these exchanges on the forums.
It would be hard to answer all the points of reply made in the thread so far, but you bring up an interesting one that I'd like to address, but first I'll clarify where this post is coming from (so to speak).

I say (and do) in real life the same things that I speak of on the internet. And I've been doing them in both places a LONG time. The OP is something I've wanted to express for about 30 years because that's how long I've been dealing with the phenomenon. But only a few hours ago did the Lord grant me the wording to say it as well as you see it written. I am VERY grateful for this and am happy to see that people are reading it. (It's actually a reprint of what I said in an existing thread).

Over the years I've had the opportunity to share truth about the Holy Ghost to friends, relatives, strangers, high-status individuals, low-status individuals, poor, rich, educated, non-educated, etc etc. I've shared it as a babe in Christ and as an elder in Christ. Face to face, and digitally. With signs and wonders, and quietly in one on one discussions. And the idea that Satan tries to cause the person to become offended (if possible) is a constant.

To those who were able to look at the opportunity instead of getting offended, I've watched them receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues time and time again. Some with hands being laid on them in prayer, some when they come up from being baptized, some come see me years later to report "Guess what, I've got the Holy Ghost now and can speak in tongues".

To those who chose to look at the offensiveness of being told that they might need to RECEIVE the Holy Ghost rather than just SAY they have it....well, once that offense takes hold it often takes an act of God for the person to get past it. Fortunately God still speaks and does mightily so there is still hope. It's just not as easy dealing with an offended individual. (Proverbs 18:19)

The point I wanted to address is that of "Is the offense caused by (a.k.a is the fault of) the speaker?" Perhaps sometimes yes, if the speaker is unskilled or has a rotten attitude...But what about when they ARE skilled and are bringing it in a RIGHT spirit? Shouldn't that cause the hearers to believe it...if it was truth?"

Well, the most convincing argument in regards to that line of thinking is simply to point everyone to Jesus. Was HE a skilled teacher, bringing forth the word the way it SHOULD be, and in a right and Godly spirit, and in love? ... And was HE able to keep people from getting angry or taking offense?

Jesus basically said "If you live like me and talk like me, you'll be hated like me". In other words, "Take some comfort, it's not always your fault if they get offended".

Not sure how to end this post. lol :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
500
113
#14
@SoulWeaver
Actually I'd intended to make that reply to your #3 posting... but some of the same elements were in the one I quoted.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,604
16,815
113
#15
If one has not been baptized and anointed by the spirit they are not saved.

so yes, it is an insult to tell a person who has proclaimed they have faith to recieved the HS. As your claiming they are not saved,

the baptism of the spirit washes us and makes us clean as we are baptized into his death and burial, and even into his body and he himself.
the anointing of the spirit (the spirit being poured into us as the holy oil was poured on the old priesthood to anoint them as priests) is where the HS is given to us, he indwells us, he seals us and he empowers us,

in that power we are given gifts, but a new believer should be focused on learning what he now is, and growing in Christ, the spirit will reveal his gift when it is time.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#16
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Today we recieve the Holy Spirit the moment we believe. That is different to how the apostles recieved the Holy spirit.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,685
2,206
113
#17
Come on! Your sister in Christ is just encouraging you to go higher... there’s MORE God has for you!

Remember, God says...”My Ways are HIGHER than yours....Come up hither!”
I simply stated a truth. But I do find many Christians prefer positivity and encouragement over truth. I find no encouragement in her post because of the truth I stated. Mostly people seem more upset by the intent of those words, not the words themselves.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#18
But intent is relevant. And typically when people make such statements it's With the intent to be an insult.
I would say that for most people who understand Kelby's post no insult is intended

intent is not irrelevant. not to God anyway

I can look at your intent in your post above.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#19
If it's coming from a Christian such as the apostles were... booming with the power of God, healing people, working miracles... otherwise is likely to be an insult, the thing is, evident power of God needs to back such offer up...
Coming in person, with true presence of God upon you, is a lot different than speaking to people on the internet, where we are all letters and numbers.

I disagree

and why wouldn't the Holy Spirit move on people's hearts? sure motives are a factor, but I know that God has not changed

evident power of God? I don't need evidence of some kind of power. I believe scripture. period.

perhaps that is a problem if people expect some kind of 'evidence'. we are responsible for our own hearts turned to God. He is always there and always answers

I mean no offence, but people on the internet can pray too and seek God.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,347
1,069
113
#20
This message is for ALL,

Satan tries really hard to make it sound like an insult rather than an exhortation when someone is advised that they still need to receive the Holy Ghost. ESPECIALLY if that person has faith.

It can be clearly stated that Peter, James and John were even made APOSTLES before they received the Holy Ghost! John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
  • Are we INSULTING them by saying they still needed to receive the Holy Ghost? Absolutely not.
  • Are we claiming they don't have faith in God? No, it's quite easy to see that they believed and trusted God and Jesus.
  • Are we saying the promise of the Holy Ghost isn't for them? Again, Absolutely not.
  • We are just saying that people need to seek until they find, knock until it is opened, ask until they receive...and not give up along the way. We are encouraging them to CONTINUE until they receive all that God has PROMISED them...(including a place in heaven).
  • We see people all over who have heard of Jesus or have a bible or have learned how to pray and recieve things (which means they have FAITH) and yet haven't even heard that they need to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul ran into a group like that in Acts 19. The bible calls them disciples. Paul acknowledged their belief. Yet they hadn't been told that they needed the Holy Ghost. They were thankfully able to receive this without taking offense...internalized the additional truth...were baptized to get it right...and eventually (not immediately) ACTUALLY RECEIVED the Holy Ghost, which didn't ACTUALLY HAPPEN until Paul laid his hands on them. That is a beautiful account because they could have taken offense instead (as Satan works hard to make happen today).
To say that someone still needs to receive the Holy Ghost isn't an insult. It's a statement that we understand that God has more for them and we're believing that they are worthy to receive it... if they TARRY until they are endued with power "For ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". and "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER".

Too many have much doctrine and words....but no power... and they fulfil the scripture regarding those who are "having a form of godliness, but denying the power".

If you know you have faith, and you know you believe in Jesus, and you know you love God, but also know you don't really have much power, and especially if you know that you've never "spake with new tongues as the spirit gave them utterance"...you probably need to seek God until he baptizes you with the same Holy Ghost that he gave on the day of Pentecost and promised "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call".

As I've said to others I now say to ALL... I wish you well on your journey.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Insult or exhortation is an intention. That is what in our heart. Some time easy to detect some time not.

If one say to us, you are stupid, more likely an insult.
If one say you need Holy Spirit, than some people may think it is out of love and other may think, you are condescending me. Every body have different vanity level. In my opinion, a person with higher pride level more irritable than humble person.

In contrary, A person that offended by exhortation may need Holy Spirit to make him humble.