It's the thought that counts?
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I tried to post my point. I'll try again:
It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ)
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith "OF" Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh """I live by the faith of the Son of God""", who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise """by faith of Jesus Christ""" might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: It's our Faith/belief placed in Christ's redemptive work)
Phil 3:9 And be found in him, """not having mine own righteousness""", which is of the law, but that which is through the """faith of Christ""", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(NOTE: The righteousness of God comes thru FAITH not works)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence (SIN) of one (ADAM) judgment came upon all men to condemnation (DEATH) even so by the righteousness of one (JESUS) the free gift (RIGHTEOUSNESS) came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, """so by the obedience of one""" shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: It's our FAITH placed in Christ's FAITHFUL OBEDIENT work of Redemption)
Its Jesus Faith that wins the battle. Adam sinned against God's Laws. Jesus was Faithful to God's Laws.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
(NOTE: It's a sinless Christ's, FAITHFUL work of redemption. That we place our FAITH in)
We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death (sins wage paid in full), burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment receive & accepted). Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:22-24)
It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ)
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith "OF" Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh """I live by the faith of the Son of God""", who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise """by faith of Jesus Christ""" might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: It's our Faith/belief placed in Christ's redemptive work)
Phil 3:9 And be found in him, """not having mine own righteousness""", which is of the law, but that which is through the """faith of Christ""", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(NOTE: The righteousness of God comes thru FAITH not works)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence (SIN) of one (ADAM) judgment came upon all men to condemnation (DEATH) even so by the righteousness of one (JESUS) the free gift (RIGHTEOUSNESS) came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, """so by the obedience of one""" shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: It's our FAITH placed in Christ's FAITHFUL OBEDIENT work of Redemption)
Its Jesus Faith that wins the battle. Adam sinned against God's Laws. Jesus was Faithful to God's Laws.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
(NOTE: It's a sinless Christ's, FAITHFUL work of redemption. That we place our FAITH in)
We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death (sins wage paid in full), burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment receive & accepted). Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:22-24)
Water Baptism is a symbolic ritual supporting the baptism of the Spirit that occurs when one is born again.
1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
through the living and enduring word of God. ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/1_peter/1-23.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 19k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the
kingdom of God unless they are born again." ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-3.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 18k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' ... ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-7.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 17k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old?" Nicodemus ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?" ... ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-4.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 18k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy
that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If you are low on extra water for tub filling, you are still ok.
1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
through the living and enduring word of God. ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/1_peter/1-23.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 19k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the
kingdom of God unless they are born again." ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-3.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 18k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' ... ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-7.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 17k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old?" Nicodemus ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?" ... ...
[SIZE=-1]//biblehub.com/john/3-4.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 18k[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy
that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If you are low on extra water for tub filling, you are still ok.
N
imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Romans
Chapter 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
ephesians 2
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ
_______
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
________
1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
_______
romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________
To all who believe.... Doesn't fade
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
1 John Chapter 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
If you would understand better you would see that a Jew who made a vow to God would submit himself to a ritual washing, a baptism to show on the outside what had taken place in his heart between him and Jehovah God. A devout Jew would present himself to the priest to show he had made a vow or sought forgiveness before the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Has anyone ever reported receiving said gift while drying off? Be honest.
I do recall one story of flames dancing on people heads....but I don't recall anyone
repeating that incident either. Lets be honest.
And I don't recall any water in that story.
No writing has ever claimed we must repeat any of the history we have read in scripture.
I do recall one story of flames dancing on people heads....but I don't recall anyone
repeating that incident either. Lets be honest.
And I don't recall any water in that story.
No writing has ever claimed we must repeat any of the history we have read in scripture.
Last edited:
This explains the symbolism:
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,
not as a removal of dirt from the body
but as an appeal to God for a good conscience,
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,
not as a removal of dirt from the body
but as an appeal to God for a good conscience,
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
You really don't know what this verse means, do you. The waters that saved Noah were symbolic of baptism not the other way around. In other words, the waters of Noah pointed to the waters of baptism. Both waters were real but one pointed to the other, which now saves us.
"which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you." GNT
"And that water is like baptism, which now saves you." ERV
You are convinced that salvation is by faith alone, nothing I show you will change your mind.
"which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you." GNT
"And that water is like baptism, which now saves you." ERV
You are convinced that salvation is by faith alone, nothing I show you will change your mind.
All scripture was written for us.
Not all scripture is written to us.
Scripture Study Tips:
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: PennEd's post # 76 did a good job of explaining this one)
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come.
(NOTE: Pentecost is 1 of 3 mandatory pilgrimage festivals. Every Jew of age, had to travel to the Temple Mt. Read vs 5, there are NO GENTILES (maybe a few proselytes) here. You can't paint these scriptures with a broad brush to include EVERYONE)
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(NOTE: JEWS from every nation)
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea
(NOTE: Ye men of Judaea. Who are from Judaea? JEWS!)
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel,
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel
NOTE: These scripture apply to JEWS ONLY! Gentiles had no covenants, relationship or promise of a comming Messiah
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(NOTE: Jesus is talking here, the redemptive atoning sacrifice wasn't an absolute at this pointe. The Jews could have accepted Messiah & the Kingdom reign would have begun back then).
Acts 22:16 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(NOTE: Still all Jewish here. The Risen Jesus has yet given Paul the all encompassing Jew & Gentile grace message)
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(NOTE: Just read the passage - Water Baptism a """Like Figure""")
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: This passage has ZERO to do with water baptism)
Acts 8:38 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
(Still all Jewish here. The RISEN Jesus has yet given Paul the all encompassing grace message)
Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
(And Crispus, the chief ruler of the ALL JEWISH synagogue , believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized)
Now the next verse you posted is the most proof you're doctrine is on the wrong track.
This takes place 7 years after Pentecost. And after all the scriptures you posted. It's the FIRST time GENTILES are offered salvation.
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Read the verse the GENTILES already had been filled with God's eternal seal = The Holy Spirit)
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: While Peter spoke, They heard, they believed = had faith & were BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit. No law keeping, no Temple worship & no water baptism)
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard, you believed = had faith & were BAPTIZED/SEALED with the Holy Spirit).
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
(NOTE: Earnest means down payment. The Holy Spirit is a down payment on/of God's eternal promise. A down payment made until you're redeemed & given an eternal incorruptible Spiritual Body)
You don't mix/put old wine (Law Covenant) into New wineskins (By Grace thur Faith Covenant) You're doctrine is mixing/adding works (Old Covenant) into the New Covenant. (Matt 9:17, Mk 2:22 & Lk 5:37)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Salvation comes, by grace thru FAITH)
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NOTE: Not thru works)
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
(NOTE: Justified = Declared Righteous by God. Thru FAITH)
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
(NOTE: We access God's grace thru FAITH)
Not all scripture is written to us.
Scripture Study Tips:
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: PennEd's post # 76 did a good job of explaining this one)
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come.
(NOTE: Pentecost is 1 of 3 mandatory pilgrimage festivals. Every Jew of age, had to travel to the Temple Mt. Read vs 5, there are NO GENTILES (maybe a few proselytes) here. You can't paint these scriptures with a broad brush to include EVERYONE)
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(NOTE: JEWS from every nation)
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea
(NOTE: Ye men of Judaea. Who are from Judaea? JEWS!)
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel,
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel
NOTE: These scripture apply to JEWS ONLY! Gentiles had no covenants, relationship or promise of a comming Messiah
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(NOTE: Jesus is talking here, the redemptive atoning sacrifice wasn't an absolute at this pointe. The Jews could have accepted Messiah & the Kingdom reign would have begun back then).
Acts 22:16 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(NOTE: Still all Jewish here. The Risen Jesus has yet given Paul the all encompassing Jew & Gentile grace message)
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(NOTE: Just read the passage - Water Baptism a """Like Figure""")
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: This passage has ZERO to do with water baptism)
Acts 8:38 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
(Still all Jewish here. The RISEN Jesus has yet given Paul the all encompassing grace message)
Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
(And Crispus, the chief ruler of the ALL JEWISH synagogue , believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized)
Now the next verse you posted is the most proof you're doctrine is on the wrong track.
This takes place 7 years after Pentecost. And after all the scriptures you posted. It's the FIRST time GENTILES are offered salvation.
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Read the verse the GENTILES already had been filled with God's eternal seal = The Holy Spirit)
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: While Peter spoke, They heard, they believed = had faith & were BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit. No law keeping, no Temple worship & no water baptism)
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard, you believed = had faith & were BAPTIZED/SEALED with the Holy Spirit).
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
(NOTE: Earnest means down payment. The Holy Spirit is a down payment on/of God's eternal promise. A down payment made until you're redeemed & given an eternal incorruptible Spiritual Body)
You don't mix/put old wine (Law Covenant) into New wineskins (By Grace thur Faith Covenant) You're doctrine is mixing/adding works (Old Covenant) into the New Covenant. (Matt 9:17, Mk 2:22 & Lk 5:37)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Salvation comes, by grace thru FAITH)
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NOTE: Not thru works)
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
(NOTE: Justified = Declared Righteous by God. Thru FAITH)
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
(NOTE: We access God's grace thru FAITH)
There was no need to reverse the chronological order of these verses. So here is how the passage actually reads:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
1. Now we know from Acts 2:38 that only those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So that is what is described in verse 44.
2. "They of the circumcision" were saved Jews who had accompanied Peter to the home of Cornelius. They never expected that the despised Gentiles would actually receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is why the Lord caused these Gentiles to speak in tongues, which to the Jews was proof that they had been saved by grace and thus received the gift of the Holy Spirit. There was no water baptism at this time, just the fact that they had been baptized WITH (not "in") the Holy Spirit.
3. Peter was fully aware that the Lord's commandment was to baptize all who believed. Therefore he asked the Jews if anyone could forbid these believing and saved Gentiles from being baptized, and the answer was obvious. No one dared object to their water baptism.
4. Now here is the clincher. Water baptism was NOT suggested or offered as an option. Peter COMMANDED all the Gentiles to be baptized and so they were.
This passage is one of the strongest evidences in the Bible that water baptism is NOT NECESSARY for salvation. Rather repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are the two conditions stated in Scripture. And it is only after sinners receive the gift of the Holy Spirit that they must be baptized by immersion with Christian baptism.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
1. Now we know from Acts 2:38 that only those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So that is what is described in verse 44.
2. "They of the circumcision" were saved Jews who had accompanied Peter to the home of Cornelius. They never expected that the despised Gentiles would actually receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is why the Lord caused these Gentiles to speak in tongues, which to the Jews was proof that they had been saved by grace and thus received the gift of the Holy Spirit. There was no water baptism at this time, just the fact that they had been baptized WITH (not "in") the Holy Spirit.
3. Peter was fully aware that the Lord's commandment was to baptize all who believed. Therefore he asked the Jews if anyone could forbid these believing and saved Gentiles from being baptized, and the answer was obvious. No one dared object to their water baptism.
4. Now here is the clincher. Water baptism was NOT suggested or offered as an option. Peter COMMANDED all the Gentiles to be baptized and so they were.
This passage is one of the strongest evidences in the Bible that water baptism is NOT NECESSARY for salvation. Rather repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are the two conditions stated in Scripture. And it is only after sinners receive the gift of the Holy Spirit that they must be baptized by immersion with Christian baptism.
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I have heard this argument before, it goes like this:
a. The gentiles of the household of Cornelius believed the message of Peter.
b. These gentiles began to speak in tongues by way of the Holy Spirit.
c. Hence the gentiles are clearly saved.
d. The gentiles were not baptized, therefore baptism is not required.
There are a number of problems with this assumption. One glaring problem is the scriptures never state they were saved before baptism, this is an assumption not a fact. Despite what many believe, Peter did not say, "Can anyone deny water, that these not be baptized, seeing that they are saved like us." People speaking in tongues is not a sign of salvation. In this instance it was a sign that the gentiles were to be accepted into the church. Hence Peter's command for them to be baptized so that their sins would be forgiven as he commanded in Acts 2:38.
God's power falling upon King Saul making him praise God was not a sign of Saul's standing before God but a sign of God control of Saul. God even made a donkey supernaturally speak, are we to assume something about the donkey's standing?
This argument is but a thinly veiled attempt at claiming a loophole in God's plan of salvation, nothing more.
a. The gentiles of the household of Cornelius believed the message of Peter.
b. These gentiles began to speak in tongues by way of the Holy Spirit.
c. Hence the gentiles are clearly saved.
d. The gentiles were not baptized, therefore baptism is not required.
There are a number of problems with this assumption. One glaring problem is the scriptures never state they were saved before baptism, this is an assumption not a fact. Despite what many believe, Peter did not say, "Can anyone deny water, that these not be baptized, seeing that they are saved like us." People speaking in tongues is not a sign of salvation. In this instance it was a sign that the gentiles were to be accepted into the church. Hence Peter's command for them to be baptized so that their sins would be forgiven as he commanded in Acts 2:38.
God's power falling upon King Saul making him praise God was not a sign of Saul's standing before God but a sign of God control of Saul. God even made a donkey supernaturally speak, are we to assume something about the donkey's standing?
This argument is but a thinly veiled attempt at claiming a loophole in God's plan of salvation, nothing more.
But people receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit -- being baptized with the Spirit -- is PROOF of salvation. So you ignored that and misdirected the focus to tongues.
Bringing this up after Pentecost is so lame that it is further proof that your doctrine is false. Do you even understand the significance of what happened on the day of Pentecost?
No, it is one of the clearest biblical evidences that salvation -- receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (which goes along with receiving the gift of eternal life) -- occurs BEFORE water baptism.
Bringing this up after Pentecost is so lame that it is further proof that your doctrine is false. Do you even understand the significance of what happened on the day of Pentecost?
No, it is one of the clearest biblical evidences that salvation -- receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (which goes along with receiving the gift of eternal life) -- occurs BEFORE water baptism.