James's Faith With Works VS Paul's Faith Without Works
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I think they are both talking about salvation and the same issue, only from a different perspective.
Paul is talking about the beginning of our salvation (what is need for to be saved right now) and James is talking about the end of it (was it really a salvation?)
Our salvation begins by faith (alone). Its like a new born baby.
But then it must become visible like the new young tree has to bear some fruit in some time. If it does not, we can retrospectively say that it was dead from the beginning.
Paul is talking about the beginning of our salvation (what is need for to be saved right now) and James is talking about the end of it (was it really a salvation?)
Our salvation begins by faith (alone). Its like a new born baby.
But then it must become visible like the new young tree has to bear some fruit in some time. If it does not, we can retrospectively say that it was dead from the beginning.
Here's the question at hand in James 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Can faith save him?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Works justifies a man? Before who, God or other men? This is not what Paul says.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
In fact, the faith that justifies a man is not even his own faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Can faith save him?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Works justifies a man? Before who, God or other men? This is not what Paul says.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
In fact, the faith that justifies a man is not even his own faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ.
Don't be a cherry picker!
God spoke thru James... this is what make the Book of James a God inspired epistle.
satan is always trying to get people to discount parts of God's Word.
James grew up in the same household as Jesus so he got to experience living with the Lord and seeing how He lived first hand so he knew the Lord better than anyone.
God spoke thru James... this is what make the Book of James a God inspired epistle.
satan is always trying to get people to discount parts of God's Word.
James grew up in the same household as Jesus so he got to experience living with the Lord and seeing how He lived first hand so he knew the Lord better than anyone.
E
James asked the question.
can a CLAIMED FAITH save you?
He did not ask if true faith can save them, he asked if their claimed faith could save them.
his answer, No, If they CLAIM they have faith, but have o work, their faith is dead.
Can a dead faith save you? No, And paul would agree.
True faith will produce works, A false faith (mental agreement only) will not..
There are indeed some who will always claim that if the tree is fruitless it was dead from the beginning. But that isn't always the case.
Luke 13:
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. 7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ 8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; 9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”
This tree was barren for three years, indicating the longsuffering of the owner. The reason fruit was expected was because it was a full grown tree, not a three year old sapling.
This indicates the tree had some fruitful years before this, because the tree hadn't been cut down earlier.
The same thing about abiding in the vine. One has to be in Christ before he can be cut off, doesn't he?
Luke 13:
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. 7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ 8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; 9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”
This tree was barren for three years, indicating the longsuffering of the owner. The reason fruit was expected was because it was a full grown tree, not a three year old sapling.
This indicates the tree had some fruitful years before this, because the tree hadn't been cut down earlier.
The same thing about abiding in the vine. One has to be in Christ before he can be cut off, doesn't he?
As his faith is being continually applied towards God by believing in Him.
But herein is the crucible; what happens when saved believers preach receiving the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with the evidence of tongues? Or what if they preached "another" baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues?
Is this not a departure from this faith in Jesus Christ that we had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at our salvation?
Is this not a departure from the faith as if preaching Christ alone of what He has done on the cross is not enough? That saved believers have to seek this promise by the sign of tongues? And yet Paul says that tongues were never to serve as a sign to believers, but as a sign to the unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Can seeking an extra work by a sign of tongues be denying the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at our salvation?
Is that not denying the work of Christ at the cross just to receive the Spirit apart from salvation for any other sensational sign in the flesh?
As you have said
Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
John 7:[SUP]38 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP] 39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Either we believe Him that we had received the promise of the Spirit at our salvation by faith in Him or we depart from that faith in Him in seeking to receive that promise by a sign of tongues which has separated them from other saved believers by a sign of tongues as an extra work apart from salvation that denies Him. Something to prayerfully reconsidered by praying normally at that throne of grace to the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom & discernment on this.
There is only one gospel and all the teachings applies to Jews & Gentiles alike in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
So regardless of being addressed to christians from having been converted from Judaism of the 12 tribes of Israel, and thus scattered everywhere, those words in James also applies to the Gentile believers as well. There is no way they cannot be applied to us.
Just as the epistles to the Romans applies to Jews and Gentiles believers in Jesus Christ.
Just because Paul was to the heathen as Peter was to the Jews in ministry outreach, that does not mean they preach a different gospel nor does it mean they teach different things for believers in Christ to follow.
1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
So regardless of being addressed to christians from having been converted from Judaism of the 12 tribes of Israel, and thus scattered everywhere, those words in James also applies to the Gentile believers as well. There is no way they cannot be applied to us.
Just as the epistles to the Romans applies to Jews and Gentiles believers in Jesus Christ.
Just because Paul was to the heathen as Peter was to the Jews in ministry outreach, that does not mean they preach a different gospel nor does it mean they teach different things for believers in Christ to follow.
I don't for a second believe in the nonsense that believers in Christ who don't speak in tongues have not received the Holy Spirit. We receive Him when we believe the gospel message of Christ. Eph. 1:13
In saying that I speak in tongues more than I speak in my native tongue and it is as natural for me as breathing and I believe it is available for personal devotional prayer to the Father and is available to everyone who believes. 1 Cor. 14:2 & 14 and it is different then the tongues and interpretation where it is used for the assembly of believers.
I wouldn't say it is departing from the faith to speak in tongues or to say that it is not for today. It is just ignorance of spiritual realities in this area of truth.
In saying that I speak in tongues more than I speak in my native tongue and it is as natural for me as breathing and I believe it is available for personal devotional prayer to the Father and is available to everyone who believes. 1 Cor. 14:2 & 14 and it is different then the tongues and interpretation where it is used for the assembly of believers.
I wouldn't say it is departing from the faith to speak in tongues or to say that it is not for today. It is just ignorance of spiritual realities in this area of truth.
