Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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If he did NT have the righteousness of christ

hr will go to hell where he deserves.
One needs the righteousness of Christ to be with the Father in heaven. It was not even available to those OT saints before the cross.

Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Before whose faith came? The faith of Christ.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. After whose faith is come? The faith of Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I am at the point I have to gnome some people. They are a danger to the church and I refuse to any longer be a part of feeding them any more
 

John146

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You destroy the context of James, make it co trading paul in Romans, and basically continue to preach a works based gospel

again good day sir
Remember, the only one up there on the mount with Abraham was God. Abraham was not justifying himself before men as many false commentaries claim. Our justification is only to God not man.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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One needs the righteousness of Christ to be with the Father in heaven. It was not even available to those OT saints before the cross.

Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Before whose faith came? The faith of Christ.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. After whose faith is come? The faith of Christ.
Reminds me of what Peter clearly stated at Pentecost in Acts 2, which was post cross

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Yet, so many Christians continue to insist that the OT saints somehow went to heaven, after the cross.
 

John146

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I am at the point I have to gnome some people. They are a danger to the church and I refuse to any longer be a part of feeding them any more
So, if we preach Paul’s gospel, are we wrong? Can you lead someone to Christ preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Israel’s kingdom being restored?
 

Ahwatukee

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Is the 1 Corinthians 7 passage scripture? If so, it was given by inspiration of God.
I agree. I was just responding to oyster67 regarding were Paul stated that He had not received word from the Lord on that subject.
 
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So, if we preach Paul’s gospel, are we wrong? Can you lead someone to Christ preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Israel’s kingdom being restored?
To covenant theologians, it doesn't matter, as we can see from this thread.

Every single gospel they talk about, is all linked back to the same covenant of grace that they hold as a central doctrine.

This means the Bible is one story of the gospel, which God has spoken “in many times and in many ways” (Heb. 1:1), whether in Paradise to Adam; during the days of the patriarchs, such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses; through the ministry of the prophets, such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Joel; or through the ceremonies of the Levitical sacrifices. All of this came to fruition in Jesus Christ.

So its always the SAME good news in their minds, regardless of what the words of the Bible literally say about the actual content of the good news.
 

John146

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To covenant theologians, it doesn't matter, as we can see from this thread.

Every single gospel they talk about, is all linked back to the same covenant of grace that they hold as a central doctrine.

This means the Bible is one story of the gospel, which God has spoken “in many times and in many ways” (Heb. 1:1), whether in Paradise to Adam; during the days of the patriarchs, such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses; through the ministry of the prophets, such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Joel; or through the ceremonies of the Levitical sacrifices. All of this came to fruition in Jesus Christ.

So its always the SAME good news in their minds, regardless of what the words of the Bible literally say about the actual content of the good news.
Maybe the questions that should be asked are:

If I believe what Noah believed, would I be saved? If I believe what Abraham believed, would that bring me eternal salvation?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Maybe the questions that should be asked are:

If I believe what Noah believed, would I be saved? If I believe what Abraham believed, would that bring me eternal salvation?
Their answer would be an unequivocal yes, as I have experienced in this thread early on

https://christianchat.com/threads/jesus-and-paul-two-different-gospels.197390/post-4490320

https://christianchat.com/threads/jesus-and-paul-two-different-gospels.197390/post-4490365

Noah and Abraham believed the exact same gospel that is being preached to us now. Why is that? Because in their minds, its all the same gospel.

If you disagree with them, they will bring in their favorite double curse passage that Paul stated in Galatians 1:6-9 about people who preached "a different gospel" ;)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[Re: Post #209]

Per GotQuestions:


Question: "What is Swedenborgianism?"

Answer: The New Church and the Church of New Jerusalem are alternate names for Swedenborgianism. This group, which has been around since the late 1700s, is well outside of orthodox Christianity in its beliefs and can definitely be labeled as a cult.

Swedenborgianism bases its teachings on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, who was born in Stockholm, Sweden, in 1688. His training was in science, but sometime around 1750 he had a vision in which he believed God came to him and declared him to be God’s personal messenger of new revelation. Further encounters with God and other beings in the spiritual realm he traveled to were the basis for his many writings.

These writings include teachings such as: God has many names, depending on the beliefs/religion of the individual; the Holy Spirit is not God; the Trinity does not exist; Jesus Christ’s death did not atone for our sin; salvation comes by practicing what you believe, whatever religion it might be; the afterlife is spiritual, but dependent on how well you lived in your physical body.

None of these teachings are compatible with biblical Christianity. The God of the Bible is the only true God (Exodus 3:13-14; Isaiah 43:10). All other gods are idols; creations of man (Exodus 20:4-5). The Holy Spirit is definitely declared to be God in the Bible (Acts 5:3-4), as is Jesus Christ (John 1:1, 14) and God the Father (Philippians 1:2); the Trinity is a valid, biblical reality. The Bible is also very clear on Jesus’ vicarious atonement of our sin (1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:2), and that it is only through belief in Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection that salvation is possible (John 14:6; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The after-life will be experienced in one of two places—heaven or hell—and that in a physical body (Revelation 22).

Swedenborgianism, and its churches by whatever name they might be called, are as far outside historical, biblical Christianity as a group can get. Although they might claim to base their teachings on the Bible, every teaching is tainted by heresy, confusion, and sometimes lunacy.

- What is Swedenborgianism? | GotQuestions.org

[end quoting GotQuestions; bold mine]


____________


This doesn't sound anything close to what ppl in this thread are pointing out that Paul taught.

Was that supposed to be something like a [false] guilt-by-association type of insinuation? If so, there is nothing whatsoever "associated" with Paul's epistles (per the parts I bolded in the GQ quote above), and no one in this thread (that I am aware) has claimed Paul taught those false things (in the bold, above). :sneaky:
 

throughfaith

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There's many complaints today about a weak gospel being preached. Well here we have folks saying that luke 9.6 is the same gospel Paul preached . They say its all the same throughout . They would be quick to criticise churches and ministries for not preaching the death, burial and resurrection for our sins .
 

throughfaith

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Just because you are caught up in time constraints, does not mean that God is.
Jesus knew he was headed to the cross and that was going to pay for the sins of the world, so when he said I am here to save you he knew what was going on. So even though his Apostles weren't aware of it yet, that is indeed what their message was.

I'm not going to be drawn into a semantics battle with you.

Christ crucified from the foundations of the earth.

We are done I will no longer read what you habebo say because you are being overtly obtuse, good bye and thank you.
The diciples before the cross and resurrection was not preaching 2cor 15 1-4 . That is just a biblical fact .
 
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The diciples before the cross and resurrection was not preaching 2cor 15 1-4 . That is just a biblical fact .
I like the way he stated with absolute confidence that "even though his Apostles weren't aware of it yet, that is indeed what their message was."

I was like "Right, they could be preaching something that they didn't even believe in." :LOL:
 

throughfaith

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I like the way he stated with absolute confidence that "even though his Apostles weren't aware of it yet, that is indeed what their message was."

I was like "Right, they could be preaching something that they didn't even believe in." :LOL:
Its a clear example of not Believing what the text actually says .
Looking forward? resurrection day
Luke 24 .
10It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11And their words seemed to them as IDLE TALES , and they believed them not.
12Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, WONDERING IN HIMSELF at that which was come to pass.

Looking forward ??
 

throughfaith

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Maybe the questions that should be asked are:

If I believe what Noah believed, would I be saved? If I believe what Abraham believed, would that bring me eternal salvation?
Great point.
 

throughfaith

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I like the way he stated with absolute confidence that "even though his Apostles weren't aware of it yet, that is indeed what their message was."

I was like "Right, they could be preaching something that they didn't even believe in." :LOL:
Yeah if we were doing that today , we would be rightly accused of being ' unbelievers lol
 

throughfaith

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The other issue is when some teach that those in the OT were regenerated.
 

throughfaith

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The problem you have is you miss the part were Paul says that these other gospels are anathema.

There is only one Gospel Jesus and Paul fully agree. If Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul you are saying Jesus teaching is Anathema.
Paul was not a believer when Jesus was preaching. Paul comes on the scene later.
 
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Some followers of Jesus-Yeshua tend to give Paul more credence than they give the Twelve.

Paul's name does not figure on any of the Twelve Foundations of New Jerusalem.. This is worthy of study and meditation for any who will.

Whenever there is scripture that lends to confusion among those who profess to believe , it is usually somet6ing credited to Paul. When this occurs with me, and I am able, I find my heart soul, and mind settled by what Jesus=Yeshua teaches directly on the given subject.

I read Paul almost daily but I am always settled by our Savior.
You are not wrong in that what saul paul preached was rather his own interpretations of the original scrolls. Any person who is objective can see that the what saul paul preached is different to what Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached.

Examples;

man shall not live by bread alone, but very word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD - Jesus His Pre-Eminence

The Just shall live by faith - saul paul

If a man keeps saying, he shall never see death.- Jesus His Pre-Eminence. Look at enoch who never saw death and it is written that hesaid he pleased GOD.

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” - Saul Paul

Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached about the path to life, and that we can live forever. He truly preached the Gospel of Ever Lasting Life. And we have declarations that Enoch and Elijah did not die, but transfigured and lived forever.

Meanwhile saul paul says:
It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement.

We then learn in Revelation that judgement doesn't occur until the second resurrection which is when some are resurrected unto life, and other to damnation.

His claim that judgement happens after death is a denial of the ressurection. For his claim that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord denies it outright. Now people think when you die you either go to heaven or hell yet Jesus His Pre-Eminence told us an allegory.


19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Where was the evidence of judgement here? Rather, we learned both went to the same realm, the ghost world.

So, there are many things that are different. I for one adhere to the words of Jesus His Pre-Eminence above all because HE is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,591
113
You are not wrong in that what saul paul preached was rather his own interpretations of the original scrolls. Any person who is objective can see that the what saul paul preached is different to what Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached.

Examples;

man shall not live by bread alone, but very word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD - Jesus His Pre-Eminence

The Just shall live by faith - saul paul

If a man keeps saying, he shall never see death.- Jesus His Pre-Eminence. Look at enoch who never saw death and it is written that hesaid he pleased GOD.

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” - Saul Paul

Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached about the path to life, and that we can live forever. He truly preached the Gospel of Ever Lasting Life. And we have declarations that Enoch and Elijah did not die, but transfigured and lived forever.

Meanwhile saul paul says:
It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement.

We then learn in Revelation that judgement doesn't occur until the second resurrection which is when some are resurrected unto life, and other to damnation.

His claim that judgement happens after death is a denial of the ressurection. For his claim that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord denies it outright. Now people think when you die you either go to heaven or hell yet Jesus His Pre-Eminence told us an allegory.


19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Where was the evidence of judgement here? Rather, we learned both went to the same realm, the ghost world.

So, there are many things that are different. I for one adhere to the words of Jesus His Pre-Eminence above all because HE is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation.
If I've understood you . Do you see a verse in one of the Gospels more authoritative than say in the book of Romans?