Jesus and the Father

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RachelBibleStudent

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#1
the doctrine of the trinity provides that the father is God and jesus the son is God...but jesus is not the father and the father is not jesus...

more detailed trinitarian theologies try to outline characteristics that both the father and the son have...as well as characteristics unique to each one...

this thread is to see if we can list some of their common characteristics and unique characteristics...

i will start...

jesus is like the father in that both are God...
jesus is like the father in that both have a tremendous love for us humans...
jesus is like the father in that jesus said he only spoke what his father told him to say...

jesus and the father are unique in that the son was begotten and the father was not...
jesus and the father are unique in that jesus took human flesh and the father did not...
jesus and the father are unique in that jesus died and the father did not...
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,576
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#2
i will start...

jesus is like the father in that both are God...
jesus is like the father in that both have a tremendous love for us humans...
jesus is like the father in that jesus said he only spoke what his father told him to say...
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The lamb of God and the Spirit of God are one

One God two attributes (Father and Son)used as metaphors in parables both belonging to one supernatural Spirit. God remains without mother or father beginning of days or end of life.

God who remains without form is not a man as us. Three things that make Him God . God is Spirit. God is Light. God is Love.

jesus and the father are unique in that the son was begotten and the father was not...

To be begotten is to reveal what is already there which existed eternally without form .

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Jesus as the Son of man rejected any worship in respect to his temporal form .It would be blasphemy to attribute the work of eternal God to the flesh of the Son of man .That kind of idea would destroy the faith principle. We walk by faith not by sight.

What some did see according to that temporal flesh was a "demonstration" of the actual unseen spiritual work of pouring out His Spirit . That finished work took place during the time (6 days) God was working creating .On the 7th day he rested from all the work he would do to create a new creation, us . That time he used an attribute as a lamb for the metaphor and not father and Son as other times

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When he left he left clear instructions regarding the one time promise of putting on the flesh . Lovingly commanding his elect that we no longer known him and any more forever more in that way.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God remains without form .Without mother or father beginning of days or end of Spirit life.

jesus and the father are unique in that Jesus took human flesh and the father did not...
Jesus simply means savor. And the name is not necessarily connected to flesh as outward. Jehovah Is savoir. That term when discussing the temporal flesh that died would be the "Son of man" . God took on the likeness of man, as God he cannot become a man .That would denote a beginning. He has none.

Jesus as the Son of man revealed Himself with corrupted flesh . The flesh died when the Son of man of his own volition gave it up .
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#3
Here are my thoughts on Jesus and the Father.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.

If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )

If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth.

If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.

Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,834
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#4
So when was the Holy Spirit born since it would not be given unto Jesus was gloried according to the translations made after the KJV.

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV John 7:39

So what should someone take from Psalms 51:11 in the NIV which was translated as:
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

How did they have the Holy Spirit in the OT if it wasn't given until the NT?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#5
Man before he Is regenerated believes easier In what he can see,the WORD of GOD became flesh,manifested to the senses of man.
+++
1st John 1:1
King James Version(KJV)

1.)That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the word of life;

2.)For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

(the apostles had seen JESUS physically,but they showed him spiritually)


3.)That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son JESUS CHRIST.
+++
The words In blue are my Interpretaion.
 
Dec 10, 2015
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#6
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

The Word is Jesus, the Son of God AND Jesus was with God and the Word was God!
 
Dec 9, 2011
9,989
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#7
So when was the Holy Spirit born since it would not be given unto Jesus was gloried according to the translations made after the KJV.

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV John 7:39

So what should someone take from Psalms 51:11 in the NIV which was translated as:
Do not cast me from your presence [FONT=&]or take your Holy Spirit from me.
[/FONT]

How did they have the Holy Spirit in the OT if it wasn't given until the NT?
Snipit
1) the Holy Spirit only came on a few special individuals, for a short time
- on prophets, on leaders, and sometimes on ordinary people
- but he only stayed long enough to get the job done, and while there was no sin
2) the Holy Spirit was ON them rather than IN them



- Jesus put it succinctly: "he lives with you and will be in you" (John.14.17)
- in the OT the Holy Spirit came upon people, and then left again
- but he lives in us, and is an intimate part of us, working with us as one

- See more at:
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
555
12
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#8
[for me anyway] we need not look further than what God Himself says about Jesus, that "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". (Matthew 3:17) As for me, I agree with God the Father with what He says, and need not to hear any opinion outside of this. But beside this, Jesus Himself says that "I am the Son of God". (John 10:36) And beside this, the angel Gabriel says Jesus is the Son of God (Luke 1:35) and John the Baptist says Jesus is the Son of God (John 1:34) and Peter says Jesus is the Son of God (John 6:69) and the centurion says that Jesus is the Son of God (Matthew 27:54) and Paul says that Jesus is the Son of God (Galatians 2:20) and the eunuch says that Jesus is the Son of God (Acts 8:37), and others. These some may not know of, because of using variations of scriptures, their variation may say something completely different. But anyway, it still return to that God says plain and clear that Jesus is His Son, and that's all we need to know: the Word of God is not a scholastically achieving endeavor as is with the secular world with their books and studies; that is not how it is with God's Word; instead He reveals His Truth by His Word to babes, and hides His Truth from the wise and prudent.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,576
117
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#9
So when was the Holy Spirit born since it would not be given unto Jesus was gloried according to the translations made after the KJV.
Jesus as the Son of man in whom the eternal anointing Spirit of Christ dwelt in ....came to demonstrate the work of the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world .It was not the actual spiritual work(unseen) that His eternal Spirit performed as that we rest in..

We can see that by the words he used before the demonstration on the cross ...that it was finished (past tense, I have finished) and his desire to return to the invisible glory he had before he created anything. (before the world was.)

Two kinds of glory, one seen the temporal, and one not seen, the eternal

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Joh 17:4

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV John 7:39

So what should someone take from Psalms 51:11 in the NIV which was translated as:

Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
Do not take your Holy Spirit from me does not mean he did not have the Spirit of Christ seeing if any man has not the Spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to Him. It was more of a plea that when he denied Christ in unbelief that he would turn David to his voice so that he could repent. seeing if God does not first turn us no man could repent.

They cold no more lose their salvation that Christ begun in them than any saint on this side of the cross. We do deny Him by not remaining faithful but he cannot deny the fact if he is drawing us according to his word in no wise could he cast us out.
How did they have the Holy Spirit in the OT if it wasn't given until the NT.
The old testament saint had the Spirit of Christ in the same we do.

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Unless his flesh as a temporal presence went away the comforter could not come. It did not mean they did not have the Spirit of Christ. Just that no man can serve two masters, the flesh and the Spirit.

One is walking by faith, the other walking by sight.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,576
117
63
#10
Snipit
1) the Holy Spirit only came on a few special individuals, for a short time
- on prophets, on leaders, and sometimes on ordinary people
- but he only stayed long enough to get the job done, and while there was no sin
2) the Holy Spirit was ON them rather than IN them
IN them is what it was. It testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. It testifies to us after hand or afterward .Same Spirit of Christ .This is which if any man old or new did not have... than neither do they belong to Christ as a born again child of God .

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,576
117
63
#11
Here are my thoughts on Jesus and the Father.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

With all due respect i see that a little differently . Not to get nit picky but the translation you are uses that uses the word nature can be misleading. God is supernatural without nature, a beginning. .Nature can be applied to the temporal flesh of Jesus that he inherited from his mother .But he clearly said it could not profit as a spiritual unseen work.

Jesus as the Son of God( no form) and the Father are One in Spirit

John 10:30 I and my Father are one......... ( In Spirit)

The Kings James would seem more beneficial using “express image”, rather than “exact representation of His nature”

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Heb 1:1

It’s when the pagans who do not mix faith in what they hear or see that it can become exact representation of one’s nature” men have a nature.

Acts 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#12
i made a second thread comparing jesus and the holy spirit...so discussions involving the holy spirit can go there...
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#13
With all due respect i see that a little differently . Not to get nit picky but the translation you are uses that uses the word nature can be misleading. God is supernatural without nature, a beginning. .Nature can be applied to the temporal flesh of Jesus that he inherited from his mother .But he clearly said it could not profit as a spiritual unseen work.

Jesus as the Son of God( no form) and the Father are One in Spirit

John 10:30 I and my Father are one......... ( In Spirit)

The Kings James would seem more beneficial using “express image”, rather than “exact representation of His nature”

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Heb 1:1

It’s when the pagans who do not mix faith in what they hear or see that it can become exact representation of one’s nature” men have a nature.

Acts 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
I can understand what you are saying.

The word "nature" means "underlying essence, reality, nature". I think we have been programmed by our religious backgrounds to view the word "nature" in regards to man only but in truth it just means "reality or underlying essence" which can refer to anything that is real....and yes the word "nature" has been used by us when referring to man.

The Son of God, the writer of Hebrews tells us, is the “exact representation” (charaktēr tēs hupostaseōs ) of God (Hebrews 1:3). That is, in terms of the reality behind the appearance of the person of Jesus Christ, stands God (cf. “he . . . bears the very stamp of his [God’s] nature” [RSV]). We therefore know God’s true nature, essence, and being—embodied in Jesus— by knowing Jesus (cf. John 10:30; 14:8-10).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

 
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rspielmann

Junior Member
Sep 4, 2016
1
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#14
A well-known Christian apologist claims that "Jesus IS Yaweh." Is that what you're saying?