Jesus and Wine

[Jakob]

This may or may not be a stupid question.

Jesus and wine..
I mean I get that he did it so his disciples would believe him.
John 2:11. But.. Why wine?

There's some scriptures in the bible where alcohol is positive, I know.
But why would Jesus turn water into wine at the wedding in Cana?
Wouldnt that be promoting a substance that is tainted by sin?
I do know that alcohol itself is not sinful, but abusing alcohol /addiction is.
What if there were an ex-alcoholic at the wedding lol... (jk) but still though, I dont understand. Hope you can help.
Ephesians 5:18, "do not get drunk on wine"
I do get that some things can be good in small amounts, but still..

Also if anyone knows about the greek translation.
Cause I've read that some confused the greek word "Oinos" with wine or grapejuice?

 

[oldhermit]

This may or may not be a stupid question.

Jesus and wine..
I mean I get that he did it so his disciples would believe him.
John 2:11. But.. Why wine?

There's some scriptures in the bible where alcohol is positive, I know.
But why would Jesus turn water into wine at the wedding in Cana?
Wouldnt that be promoting a substance that is tainted by sin?
I do know that alcohol itself is not sinful, but abusing alcohol /addiction is.
What if there were an ex-alcoholic at the wedding lol... (jk) but still though, I dont understand. Hope you can help.
Ephesians 5:18, "do not get drunk on wine"
I do get that some things can be good in small amounts, but still..

Also if anyone knows about the greek translation.
Cause I've read that some confused the greek word "Oinos" with wine or grapejuice?

Wine in scripture does not always mean alcohol. "Oinos" is a generic term that can refer to anything from the juice extracted from the grape to the plant itself and anything in between.

 

[dcontroversal]

This may or may not be a stupid question.

Jesus and wine..
I mean I get that he did it so his disciples would believe him.
John 2:11. But.. Why wine?

There's some scriptures in the bible where alcohol is positive, I know.
But why would Jesus turn water into wine at the wedding in Cana?
Wouldnt that be promoting a substance that is tainted by sin?
I do know that alcohol itself is not sinful, but abusing alcohol /addiction is.
What if there were an ex-alcoholic at the wedding lol... (jk) but still though, I dont understand. Hope you can help.
Ephesians 5:18, "do not get drunk on wine"
I do get that some things can be good in small amounts, but still..

Also if anyone knows about the greek translation.
Cause I've read that some confused the greek word "Oinos" with wine or grapejuice?

Context dictates what the word means and the idea behind the word that is used.....and a good line of thought...

1. It is not those things that enter into the body that defiles a man
2. If it offends a weaker brother then don't do it
3. Jesus was not called a winebibber because he drank grape juice
4. Paul told Timothy as a young pastor to take a little wine for thy stomachs sake...Wine has benefits in a medicinal way
5. Be not drunk with wine in excess<---grape juice does not fit as grape juice cannot make drunk, wine can!
6. Wine makes the heart merry<--grape juice does not fit this one either

Many will argue the above and like I said...context dictates which word is used and what is being meant....the Proverbs has much to say as well about strong drink and who to give it to....Proverbs 31:6-7

 

[SeaBass]

Oinos/wine in the bible is generic and can mean either fermented or unfermented wine, context would help determine which it is. Christ would not sin in contributing to the drunkenness of others. Jesus would have turned water in to unfermented grape juice.

 

[sealabeag]

What in Jesus' drinking of wine would be a problem? Do you think it is a sin to drink wine? Also it does not state whether or not he drank wine at the wedding of Cana. Perhaps he didn't, but there is no reason to think that what he drank at the last supper was not alcoholic wine.

 

[VioletReigns]

There is a lot of controversy regarding whether or not Jesus drank alcohol. If you Google it for further clarification, you'll get even more confused with the jumble of interpretations. LOL!!

Personally, I don't think it matters because Jesus had no nature to sin. So whatever the Lord did creates no restlessness in my mind.

In Romans 14:14 Paul writes: "I know, and am convinced by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that believes any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

Paul also writes in I Corinthians 6:12 - "Everything is permissible for me, but I will not be brought under the control of anything."

However, as you said, there are people who are trying to remain clean of alcohol so we should consider their health & welfare before our own and not tempt them with drinking wine (or any other booze). And we should also remember that the devil tempted Adam & Eve by twisting the Word of God. So we should also be careful to be "sober & vigilant for the devil as a roaring lion seeks someone to devour (kill)."

Do everything for the glory of God and you can't go wrong.

 

[VioletReigns]

Context dictates what the word means and the idea behind the word that is used.....and a good line of thought...

1. It is not those things that enter into the body that defiles a man
2. If it offends a weaker brother then don't do it
3. Jesus was not called a winebibber because he drank grape juice
4. Paul told Timothy as a young pastor to take a little wine for thy stomachs sake...Wine has benefits in a medicinal way
5. Be not drunk with wine in excess<---grape juice does not fit as grape juice cannot make drunk, wine can!
6. Wine makes the heart merry<--grape juice does not fit this one either

Many will argue the above and like I said...context dictates which word is used and what is being meant....the Proverbs has much to say as well about strong drink and who to give it to....Proverbs 31:6-7

Excellent Scripture references, Brother Dcontraversal!

 

[kaylagrl]

What in Jesus' drinking of wine would be a problem? Do you think it is a sin to drink wine? Also it does not state whether or not he drank wine at the wedding of Cana. Perhaps he didn't, but there is no reason to think that what he drank at the last supper was not alcoholic wine.

Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it goes down smoothly;At the last it bites like a serpent And stings like a viper.Proverbs.

 

[sealabeag]

Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it goes down smoothly;At the last it bites like a serpent And stings like a viper.Proverbs.

In context:
Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
Those who tarry long over wine,
those who go to try mixed wine.
Do not look at wine when it is red,
when it sparkles in the cup
and goes down smoothly.
At the last it bites like a serpent,
and stings like an adder.
Your eyes will see strange things,
and your mind utter perverse things.
You will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
like one who lies on the top of a mast.[d]
“They struck me,” you will say,[e] “but I was not hurt;
they beat me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake?
I will seek another drink.”


Sounds to me like a warning against over-drinking/alcoholism and drunkenness, not against the moderate drinking of wine.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Strong's Concordance

oinos: wine​

​

​

Original Word: οἶνος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: oinos
Phonetic Spelling: (oy'-nos)
Short Definition: wine
Definition: wine.

3631 oínos – wine made from grapes.


This is the definition of the word oinos that is talking about the wine used in the verse Jesus turning water to wine.
Here is how the lexicon states it...

1. 
   [*=left]wine
   
   [*=left]metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath
   
   The Greek word translated "wine" isoinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used inEphesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage ofoinosin 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.
   
   
   

The only time that oinos is given the definition of being unfermented is in your standard dictionaries, and even in those the definition states that only if the wine is made from another fruit besides the grape is it considered of the unfermented kind.

 

[SeaBass]

In context:
Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
Those who tarry long over wine,
those who go to try mixed wine.
Do not look at wine when it is red,
when it sparkles in the cup
and goes down smoothly.
At the last it bites like a serpent,
and stings like an adder.
Your eyes will see strange things,
and your mind utter perverse things.
You will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
like one who lies on the top of a mast.[d]
“They struck me,” you will say,[e] “but I was not hurt;
they beat me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake?
I will seek another drink.”


Sounds to me like a warning against over-drinking/alcoholism and drunkenness, not against the moderate drinking of wine.

Do not look at wine when it is red,
when it sparkles in the cup
and goes down smoothly.
At the last it bites like a serpent,
and stings like an adder.


Not to look at or consume. Not to look at it to be tempted by it. Adam Clarke puts it "Let neither the color, the odour, the sparkling, etc., of the wine, when poured out, induce thee to drink of it. However good and pure it may be, it will to thee be a snare, because thou art addicted to it, and hast no self-command." Why not look at wine and be tempted? "At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder"

 

[SeaBass]

Strong's Concordance

oinos: wine​

Original Word: οἶνος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: oinos
Phonetic Spelling: (oy'-nos)
Short Definition: wine
Definition: wine.

3631 oínos – wine made from grapes.


This is the definition of the word oinos that is talking about the wine used in the verse Jesus turning water to wine.
Here is how the lexicon states it...

1. 
   [*=left]wine
   [*=left]metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath
   
   The Greek word translated "wine" isoinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used inEphesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage ofoinosin 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.
   
   
   

The only time that oinos is given the definition of being unfermented is in your standard dictionaries, and even in those the definition states that only if the wine is made from another fruit besides the grape is it considered of the unfermented kind.

Look at how Greek word 'oinos' is used in the LXX.


The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary

"It is important to note that the Hebrew word tirosh, "grape juice, unfermented wine," appearing 38 times in the Old Testament (Harris, "tirosh," Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 2:969), is almost exclusively translated by oinos (36 times). In other words, oinos can and does refer to either unfermented or fermented wine in the Septuagint."



​

 

[tourist]

I believe that this subject was covered extensively in a recent thread. Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding in Cana because his mother asked him to. Any known substance has the potential to be either used for the glory of God or detrimental to your personal relationship with the Lord.

I agree that it is stated, more than once, in the bible not become intoxicated with alcohol but I have yet to find in the bible where it states that the consumption of alcohol is absolutely forbidden.

The bible says that Jesus turned water into wine. If there is a personal problem with this than exchange the word wine for grape juice and see how silly that sounds.

Jesus and his disciples were accused more than once of being imbibers. I do not see how one imbibes on grape juice.

If I were at that wedding in Cana I would have asked Jesus to not to screw up the water by changing it into grape juice.

One of the commandments in the bible is to honor your father and your mother. Jesus was just simply complying with the request of his mother.

This was choice wine that Jesus made and not the cheap stuff that is usually served after the guests have loosen up a bit and would not know the difference. There was no mention of the wedding guests complaining about the refreshments.

Maybe Jesus just knows how to enjoy life and have a good time.

I could learn from Him.

 

[sealabeag]

If I were at that wedding in Cana I would have asked Jesus to not to screw up the water by changing it into grape juice.

That made me laugh.
And yes, of course it was alcoholic wine at the wedding of cana - it wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

 

[SeaBass]

I believe that this subject was covered extensively in a recent thread. Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding in Cana because his mother asked him to. Any known substance has the potential to be either used for the glory of God or detrimental to your personal relationship with the Lord.

I agree that it is stated, more than once, in the bible not become intoxicated with alcohol but I have yet to find in the bible where it states that the consumption of alcohol is absolutely forbidden.

The bible says that Jesus turned water into wine. If there is a personal problem with this than exchange the word wine for grape juice and see how silly that sounds.

Jesus and his disciples were accused more than once of being imbibers. I do not see how one imbibes on grape juice.

If I were at that wedding in Cana I would have asked Jesus to not to screw up the water by changing it into grape juice.

One of the commandments in the bible is to honor your father and your mother. Jesus was just simply complying with the request of his mother.

This was choice wine that Jesus made and not the cheap stuff that is usually served after the guests have loosen up a bit and would not know the difference. There was no mention of the wedding guests complaining about the refreshments.

Maybe Jesus just knows how to enjoy life and have a good time.

I could learn from Him.

1 Pet 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

The underlying Greek word for "sober' is ne-pho

ne = not
pho = drink

It literally means "not drink" and means to abstain. I believe our English word nephalism comes from that Greek word.
Merriam-Webster defines nephalism as "total abstinence from alcoholic beverages"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nephalism

 

[SeaBass]

1 Pet 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

The Greek word for "devour" is katapino and means to swallow down, drink down.

Peter is using a play on words, he is saying do not drink else the devil will drink you down.

 

[oldhermit]

Strong's Concordance

oinos: wine​

Original Word: οἶνος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: oinos
Phonetic Spelling: (oy'-nos)
Short Definition: wine
Definition: wine.

3631 oínos – wine made from grapes.


This is the definition of the word oinos that is talking about the wine used in the verse Jesus turning water to wine.
Here is how the lexicon states it...

1. 
   [*=left]wine
   [*=left]metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath
   
   The Greek word translated "wine" isoinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used inEphesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage ofoinosin 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.
   
   
   

The only time that oinos is given the definition of being unfermented is in your standard dictionaries, and even in those the definition states that only if the wine is made from another fruit besides the grape is it considered of the unfermented kind.

οἶνον is also used to refer to the juices freshly processed from the grape. This is also referred to new wine, good wine, or sweet wine as in Mark 2:22, Matt. 9:17, Jn. 2:10, and Luke 5:37. It is also suggested to be wine that had gone through the very exacting and arduous process of fermentation as in Rom. 14:21 an Matt. 27:34. It is also used in a number of passages where the type of wine meant is not clear.

 

[gb9]

the word could also mean not drunk, not to totally abstain. please include all possible def. not just the ones to support your views.

 

[dcontroversal]

Excellent Scripture references, Brother Dcontraversal!

Why thanks Violet as the bible is it's own best commentary and trumps the views of men all the time and very time....!

 

[kennethcadwell]

οἶνον is also used to refer to the juices freshly processed from the grape. This is also referred to new wine, good wine, or sweet wine as in Mark 2:22, Matt. 9:17, Jn. 2:10, and Luke 5:37. It is also suggested to be wine that had gone through the very exacting and arduous process of fermentation as in Rom. 14:21 an Matt. 27:34. It is also used in a number of passages where the type of wine meant is not clear.

Yes, but in the miracle scripture where Jesus turned water into wine. It makes it very clear for anybody that studies the meaning of the word, and how Jewish tradition applied in this situation stands for it to be fermented wine.