Jesus: Both Son and Father?

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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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No lucy, the text of John 10:30 literally reads in the Greek, "I and the Father, We are one." It is true they are one in purpose but the immediate context is that the Father and the Son are one in nauture or essence. The Jews understood what Jesus mean't because at vs31 it says, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him."

Why? At vs 32 Jesus says, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of thme are you stoneing Me? Vs33, "The Jews answered Him, For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy lucy?) because You being a man, make Yourself God." Btw, you don't have to know Greek to understand what's going on, just read the context. Does that make sense to you lucy? :eek;

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You are correct; but if you were at all familiar with Lucy's track record, you would know she isn't oneness nor does she think Jn 10:30 suggests they are anything but one..

She was being sarcastic with old hermit who was more caustic than necessary.

Jn10:30 follows Dt 6:4. But the unity in Jn 10:30 does not imply idenicality [probably not a word but it conveys my intent].
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We know that this is a prophecy of Jesus Christ who is the Son. This verse of scriptures calls him the everlasting Father. If the Father and the Son are separate, how can this be?
If you look up the word used for father here, you would see that it also means chief. Jesus is the one who told us we could refer to the Almighty as Father. Before that, would it not have been disrespectful? Using one verse to “prove” that Jehovah and Yeshua are the same person is reaching to say the least. There are many verses to the contrary.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Another thing, if He is the Prince of Peace, who is the King?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Whoa! Everybody play nice! No name calling. :)

None of this post will matter in eternity. Love one another. Speak the truth in love. :)
too late.

wwe-royal-rumble-ranking-winners.jpg
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
it's a wrap
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We know that this is a prophecy of Jesus Christ who is the Son. This verse of scriptures calls him the everlasting Father. If the Father and the Son are separate, how can this be?
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,which means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated,and the man Christ Jesus the personal human body of God,which He laid down His physical life for us,and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Jesus is both God and man,but He is also an omnipresent Spirit for the Bible says that Jesus dwells in the light that no person can approach unto,and no person has ever seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,but He was manifest in flesh to provide salvation,and to have a visible relationship with the saints forever.

The Bible says there is one throne,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is God's visible relationship to the saints forever.

Jesus told Philip that if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father,and the words that I speak are not My own but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

So Jesus is saying He is a visible image of the invisible Father.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus.

God's right hand represents power,wisdom,and salvation.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

Jesus said all power is given to Me in heaven and earth.

There is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto My Lord,sit at My right hand until your enemies are your footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered,and when they are conquered then the Son shall submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

Since the man Christ Jesus is the Savior,for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God,He exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand until His enemies are conquered,and the saints are with Christ,then the man Christ Jesus will stop exercising the throne of power,stop being at the right hand of God,and submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through His humanity for the sake of the saints for the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered,then He will cease to be at the right hand.

So Jesus at the right hand of God is a temporary role as being Savior until His enemies are conquered,and the saints are with Him.

So Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father,but Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven,and if you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father,and Jesus is the only visible image of God the saints will ever see.

The Bible states that to those that know the truth there is but one God,the Father,and one visible image of God,the Lord Jesus Christ.

And in another place there is one God,the Father,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as being God.

There is only one God,the Father,and the Son shall be called the everlasting Father,because there is only one deity,the Father,and if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father,for the Father is the only God.

There is one God who is a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints,and Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

In the Old Testament God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them,which Jesus told Philip if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father,and the words I speak are not My own,but the Father's words,as God spoke to the Jews by His humanity.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name,and manifest the Father's name.

The prophet Agur said what is His name,and what is His Son's name if you can tell,which means the Father and Son will share the same name,and Jesus is the name of God manifest in the flesh,so it is the name of both the Father and Son.

Hebrews 1 says that the Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.

John 14 says that the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.

Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,which it states name,singular,and those are titles not names,and the name is Jesus.

Luke said baptism is to be done in Jesus' name.

Peter preached baptism in Jesus' name.

In the book of Acts Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,were all baptized in Jesus' name.

The Bible says there is one God and that is what it means one God with no distinction of persons.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,which then they are saying there is 3 Gods,so is there 3 persons in one God,or 3 Gods.

Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,are not 3 persons in one God,but the 3 relationships God has with His saints designated by titles.

Father-Creator and parent of the saints.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ(one visible image of God to the saints), by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

To those who know the truth there is but one God,the Father,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as being God,and if the Father is the only God,and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,then the Son shall be called the everlasting Father,and if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.

It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their religious ways,but held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

The same with other people that had a belief that was not part of the Bible,and interpreted the Bible according to that belief.

The trinity is a Roman Catholic Church belief,which pagan religions believe in a trinity,as well as a female deity,which they have Mary that they call the Queen of heaven,and the mother of God.

When the Protestant movement came about they did not protest enough for many of them held unto that trinity belief which is not true.

Since the Roman Catholic Church held unto their pagan ways and interpret the Bible according to that in the future they will become Mystery Babylon,and be the head of all the false religions of the world in a unified religious system with the Pope as the spiritual leader,and will give heed to the new age movement interpretation of the Bible based on spiritual evolution through nature.

God warns us of the new age movement interpretation of the Bible,and will develop in to a unified religious system,and religion will be about evolution,and people can still evolve through nature,that honors the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power,and will pave the way to the beast kingdom where God is causing all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they do then He can end this sin business on earth.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Another thing, if He is the Prince of Peace, who is the King?

In Elizabethan English Prince and King are used interchangeably. Prince was once a short form for principal [re claimant of the throne].
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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You are correct; but if you were at all familiar with Lucy's track record, you would know she isn't oneness nor does she think Jn 10:30 suggests they are anything but one..

She was being sarcastic with old hermit who was more caustic than necessary.

Jn10:30 follows Dt 6:4. But the unity in Jn 10:30 does not imply idenicality [probably not a word but it conveys my intent].
Thanks for the heads up marcr, I was taking what she said at face value. I could have gone even further on my explanation regarding why Jesus brought up Psalm 82:6 but I wanted to see if she would bring it up. Thanks again. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
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So how does one reconcile Is. 43:11

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

With that of Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

If the LORD is saviour and if Christ is the saviour then it stands to reason that Christ has to be the father or then he is not the saviour.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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You need to at least properly understand modalism - it is clear that you do not...
You are advocating for something that you do not even understand.

As for your dismissal of Matt 3:16-17, specifically dismissing the voice of God and the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove as merely symbolic, you are still telling me that Jesus was speaking to Himself!
Can you not see how silly and implausible that is?
An honest reading of that Scripture makes it plain that that events recorded actually happened as described and it is also plainly obvious that the three entities are acting independently.

In your view Jesus is just a world-class ventriloquist!
Go figure...
No no no, in the beginning when God was by Himself then "...let us make man in our own image...". Was God talking to Himself or??
He wasn't talking to Himself, it is just an understanding within God but when written down, a separation is drawn for our purpose so that we get a certain understanding.
The event at baptism is similar, a voice in heaven, a dove descending and only Jesus witnessed or experienced is an understanding within God but is written down so that we get a certain understanding.
I'm not saying people can not hear God's voice when Jesus is around them, they can but they would in their spirit- meaning that only intended people would while the rest won't.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I simply stated a fact, the above is heresy.

I’ve already linked to a blog on The Trinity in this thread, so to throw out your insults is rather myopic!
The 'heresy' you confronted was Lucy's sarcastic response to Old Hermit NOT her belief.

If you had read the thread carefully you would have seen that.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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If you deny there are three persons in the Godhead, you are a modalist. The Christ is not Father, Son & Spirit. That’s what modalism avers.
Then why does Isaiah differ with you:
Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Eternal Father= Eternal Father
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit
son= Son
All are one.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Then why does Isaiah differ with you:
Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Eternal Father= Eternal Father
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit
son= Son
All are one.
Let us make man in our image. Triunity at work. Your modalism is sickening. You’ve been reported two or three times.

#buh-bye
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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i am both a father and a son :rolleyes:

God is one
Is you monitor smoking? anyways, after reading that one you might check out Luke 16:9

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

The written Word and spoken Word are one, one what?, one word. And what is the word of God, the truth.

[FONT=&quot]What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light:[/FONT] Matt 10:27

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed
. Exodus 3:2
 
Aug 7, 2016
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Jesus is the Son of God, that's the gospel that God sent His son to offer eternal Life to those who will accept Him and receive the Holy spirit. that is God with us. by the holy ghost both Father, and son are with us, because the Father, the Son and the Holy ghost are One. therefore those who receive the Holy ghost are One with Father and son by the spirit. that's the Gospel, that's our reconciliation to God. paul spoke of. we are reconciled by the gift of the Holy ghost that only comes through Jesus Christ. the son of God, who makes children of God of those who believe.


This, I'm okay with this. Amen. Thanks Followjesus.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Let us make man in our image. Triunity at work. Your modalism is sickening. You’ve been reported two or three times.

#buh-bye
Sorry if any of my comments violated the site's rules or infringed on anyone. Just trying to make sense of what i still think is what the scriptures advocate.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Sorry if any of my comments violated the site's rules or infringed on anyone. Just trying to make sense of what i still think is what the scriptures advocate.
But scripture does not advocate modalism.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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There is actually nothing wrong with believeing in a from known as Modalism.... It isn't blashphemy (Blashphemy is saying that the works that Jesus Christ was doing was actually the works of the Devil in Him)

To judge someone for seeing things differently when they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, is just you being judgemental...

I'm sorry but this is just the truth... The bible cleary states we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to love God, love others, and forgive, no one has to go futher than that, that means even for those who lack understanding of what has been taught by men.

I find judging people distasteful when it comes to something like this...

Noose I don't know exactly what you believe but I think that you do believe that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ who died on the cross for the worlds sins, and was raised again by God, and there isn't anything wrong with you.

People on this site are allowed to expresses their beliefs, on here, and there is no condemnation in those believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Let us make man in our image. Triunity at work. Your modalism is sickening. You’ve been reported two or three times.

#buh-bye
I'm drawing a blank,what is modalism?