This has been covered already, there is another at least one thread called 'Christ is God', but I think there is too much lowering of Jesus' status in these forums at the moment.
When the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus, it was for blasphemy. Jesus was making Himself equal with God. So.. that does not mean that He *wasn't* God. It means He is equal. Jesus is distinct from the Father.. but not inferior. Inferiority.. and you are getting into Polytheism.
Jesus also says to them 'before Abraham was, I AM'... that is a clear reference to God talking to Moses at the burning bush. He is again making Himself equal with God.. and saying those words from God are His words. He is identifying Himself with Yahweh.. the national God of Israel... and beyond that.
Jesus saying 'The Father is greater than I'
With this verse, in the passage He ascends to be one with the Father later, after saying it.
If I say.. the president is greater than I.. is he an ontologically superior being?
No.. he is not. He is a flawed human being like I am, but he is in a greater position.
In Revelation.. this is Jesus' words to the churches.. it also the Holy Spirit's word to the churches.. and then Jesus is referred to with 'Alpha and Omega' terms.. which is used for the Father.
You can't avoid this! Jesus DID claim, indirectly to be God!
Then there is also the Jewish concept of agency.. the messager taking an originators message.. the agent becomes equal to the messenger. So when Jesus says 'by the hand of the Father'.. 'and I and the Father are one'.. things like that... to the Jews... that is saying 'I am God'.. His words are equal to the Fathers.
It goes on and on.. such as 'all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'
And also that Jesus accepted worship of Himself.
'Son' meaning 'image' 'expression' 'manifestation' of God.. not 'inferior, born out of'
If anyone is going to claim Jesus is not God.. equal to the Father.. that is not christianity. It's something else.
When the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus, it was for blasphemy. Jesus was making Himself equal with God. So.. that does not mean that He *wasn't* God. It means He is equal. Jesus is distinct from the Father.. but not inferior. Inferiority.. and you are getting into Polytheism.
Jesus also says to them 'before Abraham was, I AM'... that is a clear reference to God talking to Moses at the burning bush. He is again making Himself equal with God.. and saying those words from God are His words. He is identifying Himself with Yahweh.. the national God of Israel... and beyond that.
Jesus saying 'The Father is greater than I'
With this verse, in the passage He ascends to be one with the Father later, after saying it.
If I say.. the president is greater than I.. is he an ontologically superior being?
No.. he is not. He is a flawed human being like I am, but he is in a greater position.
In Revelation.. this is Jesus' words to the churches.. it also the Holy Spirit's word to the churches.. and then Jesus is referred to with 'Alpha and Omega' terms.. which is used for the Father.
You can't avoid this! Jesus DID claim, indirectly to be God!
Then there is also the Jewish concept of agency.. the messager taking an originators message.. the agent becomes equal to the messenger. So when Jesus says 'by the hand of the Father'.. 'and I and the Father are one'.. things like that... to the Jews... that is saying 'I am God'.. His words are equal to the Fathers.
It goes on and on.. such as 'all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'
And also that Jesus accepted worship of Himself.
'Son' meaning 'image' 'expression' 'manifestation' of God.. not 'inferior, born out of'
If anyone is going to claim Jesus is not God.. equal to the Father.. that is not christianity. It's something else.
Like all things in the Bible, clear and direct answers are very important.
- 1
- Show all