Jesus Is His Own Father

stillearning · Sep 3, 2009

Jesus Is His Own Father
By Michael Gibson

Why should I be ashamed to say Jesus is his own Father? The scriptures teach this explicitly. Why do I say so? Simple. Follow me here:

13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13

Here we see Jesus has a Father. Peter said his Father is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. All we have to do is find out who HE is. Then we will know who is the Father of Jesus.

Who IS the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob?

13: And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14: And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15: And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Ex. 3:13-15

The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob says he is I AM.

So we can see very plainly that the I AM is the Father of Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus Christ HIMSELF?

57: Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8: 57-58

There it is. The Father of Jesus is I AM. Jesus is I AM.

Jesus is BOTH the Father and the Son.

Peter said The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob IS the Father of Jesus.

Yet Jesus IS the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

According to the doctrine of Peter Jesus is his own father.

As I have presented this truth many times to Trinitarians and Arians I have been mocked and scorned. Yet none have any answer for it. I have heard or seen in their writings some Oneness teachers distance themselves from this truth by saying Jesus is not his own Father?

Why be ashamed of this awesome truth?

MahogonySnail · Sep 3, 2009

Jesus using I AM was to show his divinity and how he has always existed with the Father even before Abraham. There's many different ways we could interpret this passage including debating over whether Jesus was ever referring to the old testament passage in Exodus at all.

Trying to force a meaning into it that Jesus is somehow the Father or is His own Father makes no sense. It illogical according to all recorded exchanges
between Jesus and the Father in the scriptures. Try explaining the one where the Father said to Jesus from heaven "this is my own Son with whom I am pleased".

God is a Trinity and the "one God" heresies that disregard the Trinity have more in common with "one God" Allah than Christianity. Be sure you get to know the right God, otherwise you might find yourself inadvertantly worshipping the Allah moon or sun god.

Cup-of-Ruin · Sep 3, 2009

stillearning said:

From a theological understanding Jesus Christ must be His own Father because there was never a time that He did not exist, He being eternal has no Creator and can have no Father other than Himself, He is self-existent. It is also interesting to note that because both Father and Son claim all authority power and dominion over the entire Creation and both claim to be Creator, that they are either distinct and seperate in contradiction or they are one and the same, and holy scripture declares that the latter is true, they are one and the same and cannot be divided. Logically anything that is indivisible, cannot be divided into more than one, one is the sum total and no further division is possible.

watchmen · Sep 3, 2009

I totally agree with Stillearning.

MahogonySnail · Sep 4, 2009

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

watchmen · Sep 4, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

Yep they are one not three. Thank you for proving us right

MahogonySnail · Sep 4, 2009

There are three in heaven, not one, but the three are one. Trinitarians never claim God is polytheistic. It is not 1+1+1 = 3, but 1x1x1 = 1. The problem is Oneness believes in 1+0+0 = 1

MahogonySnail · Sep 4, 2009

An example of the Father, Son, and Spirit, interacting with each other at the same times is given below. These dynamics are very hard to explain in the oneness understanding.

Matthew 3:13-17
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Let's re-write it for the benefit of the Oneness believers and "Jesus is His own Father" view, changes in bold:

Matthew 3:13-17
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw Jesus (Himself) descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo Jesus's voice from heaven, said , This is my beloved Self, in whom I am well pleased.

stillearning · Sep 4, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

An example of the Father, Son, and Spirit, interacting with each other at the same times is given below. These dynamics are very hard to explain in the oneness understanding.

Matthew 3:13-17
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Let's re-write it for the benefit of the Oneness believers and "Jesus is His own Father" view, changes in bold:

Matthew 3:13-17
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw Jesus (Himself) descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo Jesus's voice from heaven, said , This is my beloved Self, in whom I am well pleased.

Well I suppose you did not read the study at all. Our Eternal Father did say the He Himself is the only Saviour, Lord, and God. If our Father is Lord and Saviour and Jesus is Lord and Saviour which one do you worship??

Isa 43:11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Slepsog4 · Sep 4, 2009

Still Learning,

Your name is appropriate. Just do us all a favor. Stop posting error. Learn the truth.

Your logic is seriously flawed. What you have established with your line of reason is not that Jesus is His own Father, but that both He and the Father are deity. This is part of the evidence for the godhead (aka, trinity).

watchmen · Sep 4, 2009

stillearning said:

Of course she didn't read the study, she really doesn't care to know why we believe what we believe. She just wants to insist we are wrong.

watchmen · Sep 4, 2009

Slepsog4 said:

We are all stillearning, maybe you should take the time to read some of what he has to say, then you might learn something yourself.

Slepsog4 · Sep 4, 2009

Watchmen,

Do you believe this false doctrine also? If so, you both need to repent of this error and embrace the truth. Eternity hangs in the balance.

It is a ludicrous notion to say that Jesus the Son is His own Father. If language means anything, that is an absurdity. The truth of scripture screams against such foolishness.

Slepsog4 · Sep 4, 2009

The Biblical Godhead = Trinity

One What = God (divine nature, deity)

Three Who = Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

sisterren11492 · Sep 4, 2009

Slepsog4 said:

The Prophet Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah (Christ) would be both the FATHER and the SON in Isaiah 9:6.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
There is only ONE FATHER!

What gets me is many claim the FATHER is GOD and that JESUS is GOD while also claiming they believe in only ONE GOD but if you ask them if JESUS is the FATHER they say No!

If JESUS is GOD and not GOD the FATHER than what GOD is HE?

Meridoc · Sep 4, 2009

The problem with this whole argument in my opinion is that we are taking the terms father and son way too literal. There is only one God, Jesus was a part of that same God, not a child that God had with anyone, but a piece of his very person. The terms Father and Son are used as points of understanding for us.

Ryan1976 · Sep 4, 2009

This might help:

They're audio studies.

The Definition of Trinitarian and Christological Doctrine

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 1st Ecumenical Council-Nicea 325 AD and the struggle with Arianism, Athanasius, and the controversy over the term “homoousios”.

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 2nd Ecumenical Council-Constantinople 381 AD St. Basil the Great and the doctrine of three hypostases in the Trinity.

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 3rd Ecumenical Council-431 AD Conflict between Nestorius and Cyril of Alexandria over the term “Theotokos” and the question of who was born of Mary.

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 4th Ecumenical Council-450 AD Condemnation of Eutychianism. 2 natures doctrine of Leo’s Tome. Monophysite schism.

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 5th Ecumenical Council-553 AD and the Emperor Justinian Completion of integration of Chalcedon and Cyril of Alexandria’s theology.

PLAY (Right-click to Download) 6th Ecumenical Council-681 AD reaffirms two natural energies and two natural wills of Christ taught by Pope Leo and Maximus the Confessor against the Emperor Heraclius’ Church reunion efforts using Monoenergism and Monothelatism.

daddycat · Sep 4, 2009

sisterren11492 said:

Jesus is God, the Son

MahogonySnail · Sep 4, 2009

About this verse, see a Christian apologetics website:

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/oneness-pentecostal/isaiah-96-jesus-everlasting-father

This reference to everlasting Father does not mean Jesus is the Father. It means he takes upon the identity of the Father and yes, while Jesus is the fleshly manifestation of the Father, this is not because Jesus is the Father, but because Jesus is the Son. "Like Father like Son". Consult any good bible commentary about that verse, or Christian apologetics website - there's no excuse for people being in ignorance over this issue or promoting further division within Christianity. In summary, Jesus is not the Father, Jesus is the Son who makes the Father known.

The theologian Barnes explains how this verse does not designate any relation to the God-head by the use of "Father":

The everlasting Father - The Chaldee renders this expression, ‘The man abiding forever.’ The Vulgate, ‘The Father of the future age.’ Lowth, ‘The Father of the everlasting age.’ Literally, it is the Father of eternity, עד אבי 'ĕby ‛ad. The word rendered "everlasting," עד ‛ad, properly denotes "eternity," and is used to express "forever;" see Psa_9:6, Psa_9:19; Psa_19:10. It is often used in connection with עולם ‛ôlâm, thus, עולם ועד vā‛ed ‛ôlâm, "forever and ever;" Psa_10:16; Psa_21:5; Psa_45:7. The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the ease with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.
Thus, the father of strength means strong; the father of knowledge, intelligent; the father of glory, glorious; the father of goodness, good; the father of peace, peaceful. According to this, the meaning of the phrase, the Father of eternity, is properly eternal. The application of the word here is derived from this usage. The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity. But it is used in reference to durations, as a Hebraism involving high poetic beauty. lie is not merely represented as everlasting, but he is introduced, by a strong figure, as even the Father of eternity. as if even everlasting duration owed itself to his paternity. There could not be a more emphatic declaration of strict and proper eternity. It may be added, that this attribute is often applied to the Messiah in the New Testament; Joh_8:58; Col_1:17; Rev_1:11, Rev_1:17-18; Heb_1:10-11; Joh_1:1-2.

And Gill commentary says similar:

The everlasting Father; which does not design any relation of Christ in the Godhead; and there is but one Father in the Godhead, and that is the first Person; indeed Christ and the Father are one, and the Father is in him, and he is in the Father, and he that has seen the one has seen the other, and yet they are distinct, Christ is not the Father; the Son and Spirit may be considered with the first Person as Father, in creation and regeneration, they being jointly concerned therein, but not in the Trinity: it is easy to make it appear Christ is not the Father, but is distinct from him, since he is said to be with the Father from eternity, to be the Son of the Father in truth and love, his own Son, his only begotten and beloved Son; Christ frequently calls the first Person his Father, prayed to him as such, and is our advocate with him, as well as the way unto him; he is said to be sent by the Father, to come from him, and to go to him; and many things are said of Christ that cannot be said of the Father, as his being made flesh, suffering and dying in the room of his people; and the Father is said to do many things unto him, as to anoint him, to seal him, to show him all he did, to commit all judgment to him, and give him to have life in himself as he had: but Christ is a Father with respect to chosen men, who were given him as his children and offspring in covenant; who are adopted into that family that is named of him, and who are regenerated by his Spirit and grace: and to these he is an "everlasting Father"; he was so from everlasting; for regeneration and faith do not make men children, but make them appear to be so; God's elect are children previous to the Spirit's work upon them, and even to the incarnation and death of Christ; adoption is an act of the will of God in covenant from eternity: and Christ is a Father to these unto everlasting; he will never die, and they shall never be left fatherless; he and they will ever continue in this relation; he as such supplies them with everlasting provisions, he clothes them with everlasting raiment, he gives them an everlasting portion, promotes them to everlasting honour, saves them with an everlasting salvation, bearing an everlasting love to them. Some render the words, "the Father of eternity" (s); the author of eternal life, who has procured it for his people, and gives it to them; or to whom eternity belongs, who inhabits it, and is possessed of it, is the everlasting I AM, was before all persons and things, was set up in an office capacity from everlasting, and had a glory with the Father before the world was, in whom eternal election, and with whom the everlasting covenant, were made. The Septuagint version is, "the Father of the world to come" (t); of the Gospel dispensation; so called, Heb_2:5 the legal dispensation, when in being, was the then present world, at the end of which Christ came; this is now at an end, and a new state of things has taken place, which with respect to the Old Testament saints was the world to come, and of this Christ is the Father or author; as the law came by Moses, and he was the father of the legal dispensation, grace and truth are come by Christ, the Father and author of the Gospel dispensation; the doctrines of it are from him, and the ordinances of it by him; and he is the father of that state or world to come after the resurrection, the New Jerusalem church state, and also of the ultimate glory.

Cup-of-Ruin · Sep 4, 2009

Meridoc said:

But the Godhead dwelt in Him fully, which means that in Christ Jesus was the full embodiment of the the Godhead, Father,Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus is a bit part or a piece of a divine pie, or a family member, this does not make theological sense and this is where there is no resolution for the Trinitarian and is the danger of the false Trinity doctrine, God is not 3 seperate beings and He is not split into thirds, in fact He cannot be divided, if he can be divided then He is not fully God, that's the whole point!

If God needed to become man, He had to humble Himself, to people understand what that means, that means God by His own council took on corrupted filthy flesh to suffer and die for a lost and fallen sinful creation, That's lowering, He lowered Himself, He had to, that has to be aknowledged by the fallen creature or there is no salvation, I mean He went to the Cross- died, down to the lowest depths of Hell and then all the way back up to take up His life and everybody elses life as well, He did not have to do it, He did it to save a fallen creation.

Jesus Is His Own Father

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