JESUS IS WILLING, BE HEALED!

[coby]

What exactly was heretical about the strange fire conference? There were some very well known theologians that were a part of that. Can you personally point to any doctrinal heresy perpetrated by MacArthur? Hagin and any of the WoF can be proven to be heretic by their own words pretty simply. Show me where MacArthur has committed any type of heresy or any of those at the strange fire conference that accompanied him.

The truth is, you can't. None of you can back up your claims. I can back mine up about Hagin readily enough by his own words and actions weighed against scripture.

You underestimate heresy hunters. I can google.

"It is not the actual liquid that cleanses us from our sins, but the work of redemption Christ accomplished in pouring it out." -Dr. John MacArthur

SOURCE:http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/blood.htm

Jesus is Son in resurrection as as (sic) well as in birth. It is His*human*title, and we should never get trapped in the*heretical idea*that Jesus Christ is eternally subservient to God. He*becameSon for our sake - (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, Hebrews, copyright 1983 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, p. 29, bold added, italics in original)

As so many (e.g.*Stanley,*Smith,*Hayford,*Catholicism,McGee,*Graham) MacArthur believes a person can kill themselves and still end up in heaven. As stated in his article entitled "Can one who commits suicide be saved?" (hard copy on file).

Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24).

 

[PeterJens]

Show me MacArthur's heresies.

Well, your hero was fired from CBN for false teaching in 1989.

This is not an argument.
This is like saying someone is not human because they wear clothes. The two are unrelated.

It sounds to me we have a thread of little gods, with command authority. What have you been commanding into existance today then? Funny because you should not need to go to work and earn money because you can command food, electricity, water into existance. Or is it restricted to only the higher talented commanders who can do this?

 

[ForthAngel]

You underestimate heresy hunters. I can google.

"It is not the actual liquid that cleanses us from our sins, but the work of redemption Christ accomplished in pouring it out." -Dr. John MacArthur

SOURCE:http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/blood.htm

Jesus is Son in resurrection as as (sic) well as in birth. It is His*human*title, and we should never get trapped in the*heretical idea*that Jesus Christ is eternally subservient to God. He*becameSon for our sake - (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, Hebrews, copyright 1983 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, p. 29, bold added, italics in original)

As so many (e.g.*Stanley,*Smith,*Hayford,*Catholicism,McGee,*Graham) MacArthur believes a person can kill themselves and still end up in heaven. As stated in his article entitled "Can one who commits suicide be saved?" (hard copy on file).

Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24).

Show me how any of this is heresy?

 

[PeterJens]

You underestimate heresy hunters. I can google.

"It is not the actual liquid that cleanses us from our sins, but the work of redemption Christ accomplished in pouring it out." -Dr. John MacArthur

SOURCE:http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/blood.htm

Jesus is Son in resurrection as as (sic) well as in birth. It is His*human*title, and we should never get trapped in the*heretical idea*that Jesus Christ is eternally subservient to God. He*becameSon for our sake - (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, Hebrews, copyright 1983 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, p. 29, bold added, italics in original)

As so many (e.g.*Stanley,*Smith,*Hayford,*Catholicism,McGee,*Graham) MacArthur believes a person can kill themselves and still end up in heaven. As stated in his article entitled "Can one who commits suicide be saved?" (hard copy on file).

Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24).

So Macarthar is dodgy on the blood of Christ and suicide. I can see these are real foundational issues, I must not listen to him.

 

[coby]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6z1MynGK3YA

 

[PeterJens]

Did you know Jesus was called a heretic? They killed him for that!

Today anybody who chooses to try and follow Jesus and makes one mistake falls into that category.

Thank God for mercy.

Are you a little god? Can you command things into existance?

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..that was funny..thanks..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6z1MynGK3YA

 

[PeterJens]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6z1MynGK3YA

What you are getting in the hyper-grace church is no longer christianity, but a form of mormonism. Worse still it claims all the spiritual gifts, anointing, and yet denies the core beliefs and how they are applied to the christians walk.

With the abandoning of preaching about our failure and our success in christ the focus has on being happy and content, while missing all the real reality of the walk. cc reflects this with people claiming to know God yet denying love should work from their hearts out to others. The problem with claiming the Holy Spirit is in your heart and speaks daily to one, and yet gets the fundamental relationship wrong suggests whatever is being experienced it is not normal christian faith.

 

[Depleted]

Did you know Jesus was called a heretic? They killed him for that!

Today anybody who chooses to try and follow Jesus and makes one mistake falls into that category.

Thank God for mercy.

Did you know he also warned us about heretics. Ever consider some took the warning and take the time to figure out who is and isn't one? Sure beats thinking a generalization stops the discussion of if someone is one.

I agree with you that it's used as the secret trap door too often, but it doesn't mean no one is one. Always good to figure out who is and isn't.

MacArthur? I think he's too harsh, but he's not a heretic. Thank God for discernment too.

 

[Depleted]

Show me how any of this is heresy?

Actually, those "proofs" seem to prove MacArthur understands quite a bit of the Bible. (I know you get that too, just wanted to say it anyway for those who don't get it. lol)

 

[un2him]

Are you a little god? Can you command things into existance?

Not sure why you think because I happened to post about Hagin you come up with all these accusations against me. It surely is not Godly nor in love. I certianly understand your position on healing by now but please control yourself. This serves no purpose other then causing strife.

If I have offended you please forgive me. Am I a little god? What the heck are you talking about? You want us to be real with you show some respect for the people here who want to discuss healing and do try and stay on topic.
Y

 

[PeterJens]

Not sure why you think because I happened to post about Hagin you come up with all these accusations against me. It surely is not Godly nor in love. I certianly understand your position on healing by now but please control yourself. This serves no purpose other then causing strife.

If I have offended you please forgive me. Am I a little god? What the heck are you talking about? You want us to be real with you show some respect for the people here who want to discuss healing and do try and stay on topic.
Y

If you are defending Hagin, he preached a dynamic shift in his theology and acceptance of authority.

Now we are talking about healing. The theology Hagin follows is healing is there for everyone, you just have to command it into being. Foundational to this idea is as believers we are little gods, duplicates of God on earth. The teaching goes further to say God does not have authority on earth anymore, but prayer gives him permission to do anything on earth.

So this is staying on topic. But probably you do not know Hagins teaching or theology, so are giving ascent to him will being in ignorance. The problem with heresy is it no "nice" or "loving", but blasphemy and heresy. You cannot rebuke about these ideas "lovingly", you just need to challenge people about it.

So I encourage you to investigate what these guys believe before quoting them.

 

[wolfwint]

Isaiah 53:5
But he*was*wounded for our transgressions,*he was*bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace*was*upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

This can not mean, physical healing. Otherwise we had no sickness among christians and jews.

Mark 16
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;*18*they[a]*will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

If this would be true for today, then from the time of the gospel till today only view can be called a believer. I suppose this was fulfilled during the time of acts

James 5
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.*15*And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.*

Yes, but special in charismatic and pentecostal churches this is very rare in practice. Not the healer or the church is calling the sick person. The sick person has to call the eldest.


1 Peter 2:24*- Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

It is not clear talking about physical healing of the body. It is more realistic that here is meant the healing of our soul.
If would be meant the body, then christians should not get sick.


Matthew 10:8*- Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

This is a special order to the 12 apostels for a special time with certain conditions. And if you take this for today then you should take the full order.!



Deuteronomy 7:15*- And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all [them] that hate thee.

This verse is adressed to Israel, the jews!


Psalm 103
Bless the*Lord, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3*Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,


This psalm from David talkes from his expierience and from good doings for Israel. It is not speaking that we as christians will never be sick, ore get healing from all sicknessof our body
Coby, non of this verses is a proof, that Jesus is healing physically today all who comes to him. But he is giving us a new life! That is the most important thing.

Of course if you simply use the verses, without of any exegetic ore homeletic concern, you will come to the conclusion you have. But I doubting that we can use the word of god according what we want teach.

 

[coby]

Are you a little god? Can you command things into existance?

I know that Copeland rejected this teaching. Dunno what it is. It wasn't taught on the WOF Bible school.
Normally I hear: We died with Christ. The Holy Spirit can work through the believers, His Body like He did through Jesus when He was in a body. It is like now you have a whole lot of Jesuses. Like. First they had to kill one Man, then all His followers were doing the same and it was unstoppable. We are not Jesus, but we can do the same works and greater in His Name. We don't do that, because we died with Christ. It's not about me. He does it through His Body.

 

[PeterJens]

all these accusations against me.

I have not made any accusations against you. I am asking you a question, which it appears you do not know the answer to.
What you might not be aware of but associating yourself with heretics is sin, odious to the Lord.

But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:6

So it is important to know who your friends are and who are your enemies. I do not mean to offend you, but this is not a friendly discussion or subject. People have died because of teaching about healing incorrectly and people abandoning their medication ( epileptic medication ) and then suffering a fit which then killed them. So nice talking is not the territory here.

 

[un2him]

Did you know he also warned us about heretics. Ever consider some took the warning and take the time to figure out who is and isn't one? Sure beats thinking a generalization stops the discussion of if someone is one.

I agree with you that it's used as the secret trap door too often, but it doesn't mean no one is one. Always good to figure out who is and isn't.

MacArthur? I think he's too harsh, but he's not a heretic. Thank God for discernment too.

Yes is good to have discernment. As for hereitics I am not concerned.

There is a lot of good in everything and everybody I try rather to find that! Guess that is just how I'm wired. The rest I'm leaving up to God.

 

[PeterJens]

I know that Copeland rejected this teaching. Dunno what it is. It wasn't taught on the WOF Bible school.
Normally I hear: We died with Christ. The Holy Spirit can work through the believers, His Body like He did through Jesus when He was in a body. It is like now you have a whole lot of Jesuses. Like. First they had to kill one Man, then all His followers were doing the same and it was unstoppable. We are not Jesus, but we can do the same works and greater in His Name. We don't do that, because we died with Christ. It's not about me. He does it through His Body.

It is interesting saying Copeland rejected this teaching. I actually doubt he rejected it, but adapted it. I have heared enough of his teaching to know he believes in this theology. So I would be interested to know the teaching you are referring to.

 

[coby]

Isaiah 53:5
But he*was*wounded for our transgressions,*he was*bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace*was*upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

This can not mean, physical healing. Otherwise we had no sickness among christians and jews.

Mark 16
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;*18*they[a]*will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

If this would be true for today, then from the time of the gospel till today only view can be called a believer. I suppose this was fulfilled during the time of acts

James 5
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.*15*And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.*

Yes, but special in charismatic and pentecostal churches this is very rare in practice. Not the healer or the church is calling the sick person. The sick person has to call the eldest.


1 Peter 2:24*- Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

It is not clear talking about physical healing of the body. It is more realistic that here is meant the healing of our soul.
If would be meant the body, then christians should not get sick.


Matthew 10:8*- Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

This is a special order to the 12 apostels for a special time with certain conditions. And if you take this for today then you should take the full order.!



Deuteronomy 7:15*- And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all [them] that hate thee.

This verse is adressed to Israel, the jews!


Psalm 103
Bless the*Lord, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3*Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,


This psalm from David talkes from his expierience and from good doings for Israel. It is not speaking that we as christians will never be sick, ore get healing from all sicknessof our body
Coby, non of this verses is a proof, that Jesus is healing physically today all who comes to him. But he is giving us a new life! That is the most important thing.

Of course if you simply use the verses, without of any exegetic ore homeletic concern, you will come to the conclusion you have. But I doubting that we can use the word of god according what we want teach.

Yes you can simply use the verses. It works. I put them on my head and proclaimed them for hours a day for a year and then I saw in my body that I was healed.
We are healed by His stripes is the same as we are made holy, we died with Christ and are free from sin. As long as you don't believe and confess it it won't profit you.
How come the Africans who knew nothing simply read this and just did it?

 

[coby]

It is interesting saying Copeland rejected this teaching. I actually doubt he rejected it, but adapted it. I have heared enough of his teaching to know he believes in this theology. So I would be interested to know the teaching you are referring to.

I don't know much about him. Thought Michael Brown said he rejected it, but now that I look it up, oops sorry Benny Hinn rejected it. I thought Copeland.

https://askdrbrown.org/justin-peters-benny-hinn-and-the-pursuit-of-truth/

 

[coby]

If you are defending Hagin, he preached a dynamic shift in his theology and acceptance of authority.

Now we are talking about healing. The theology Hagin follows is healing is there for everyone, you just have to command it into being. Foundational to this idea is as believers we are little gods, duplicates of God on earth. The teaching goes further to say God does not have authority on earth anymore, but prayer gives him permission to do anything on earth.

So this is staying on topic. But probably you do not know Hagins teaching or theology, so are giving ascent to him will being in ignorance. The problem with heresy is it no "nice" or "loving", but blasphemy and heresy. You cannot rebuke about these ideas "lovingly", you just need to challenge people about it.

So I encourage you to investigate what these guys believe before quoting them.

But you can command things into being. Jesus did that. We would do the same and even greater works. You can command a new heart in someone, one guy from our church got a new heart or a new muscle. Jesus healed that arm, new muscles and stuff.
If He has authority to do what He wants anyway why does He say we have to pray that all people get saved? Prayer is an invitation for Him. He gave His authority to the church. That doesn't mean we tell Him what to do, but He tells us what to pray for.