Jesus told us to Honor Passover

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
In Luke 22:7 to 22 Luke told us all about the last supper Jesus ate just before he was crucified. Our church has interpreted these passages as saying that Jesus was cancelling Passover and establishing a new one and the rite of communion was established. They have assumed this, for if it is to be obeyed as it is written, then we are to “do this in remembrance of me”. Jesus was honoring Passover, so if we “do this” we will be honoring Passover, for that is what Jesus was doing. Scripture says nothing to indicate that Jesus wants us to cancel Passover and substitute our ceremony of taking communion.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#2
1 Peter 1:18-19
knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#3
In Luke 22:7 to 22 Luke told us all about the last supper Jesus ate just before he was crucified. Our church has interpreted these passages as saying that Jesus was cancelling Passover and establishing a new one and the rite of communion was established. They have assumed this, for if it is to be obeyed as it is written, then we are to “do this in remembrance of me”. Jesus was honoring Passover, so if we “do this” we will be honoring Passover, for that is what Jesus was doing. Scripture says nothing to indicate that Jesus wants us to cancel Passover and substitute our ceremony of taking communion.
well i do agree that if we're going to celebrate His death and resurrection in April, it should not be 'good friday' April 10 and 'eostare' April 12, but Pascha, sundown April 8 and Firstfruits on April 12. He laid down His life and raised it up again on days according to His own calendar, which is not the same calendar the modern world uses. He was crucified on Passover, and rose on firstfruits, the day after the sabbath, the 8th day. that's 'good wednesday' not friday, 3 days = {thursday friday saturday} in the grave, and most years the way the feast of ishtar is calculated does not coincide with Biblical firstfruits, which is calculated by a lunar calendar.

He chose these days to do these things. He did it on purpose. we ought to know these things, and we ought to know why He chose these days. if we're going to commemorate the day we ought to do it on the right day -- my opinion ;)
it pays to be accurate


but neither scripture not history indicate that believers were keeping Pesach. scripture & history indicate that believers from the beginning kept what they called 'the Lord's supper', and that while they distanced themselves from Mosaic religion, they understood and taught the typology and relationships between the works of Christ and the feasts. that understanding and teaching is conspicuously missing ((at least elusive to find)) in Christianity today -- totally agree with you @Blik on that point
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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#4
I think it would serve some of you guys to read the writings of the early church fathers. Folks like Polycarp, Didache, and Ingatius. It might help you to understand the actual practice that was given to them directly from the apostles.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#5
In Luke 22:7 to 22 Luke told us all about the last supper Jesus ate just before he was crucified. Our church has interpreted these passages as saying that Jesus was cancelling Passover and establishing a new one and the rite of communion was established. They have assumed this, for if it is to be obeyed as it is written, then we are to “do this in remembrance of me”. Jesus was honouring Passover, so if we “do this” we will be honouring Passover, for that is what Jesus was doing. Scripture says nothing to indicate that Jesus wants us to cancel Passover and substitute our ceremony of taking communion.[/QUOTE

I don't know which bit of Passover you expect us to honour. Is it the date or all the rituals and food that was associated with it.
Without a Temple and Priesthood it would be impossible to completely duplicate the Jewish Passover. Even Judaism today doesn't
attempt to duplicate it. During Jesus' day not everyone fully participated. The Essenes had a meal of bread and wine identical
to the last supper and a new covenant without being involved with the temple and priesthood which they considered to be corrupt.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#6
I think it would serve some of you guys to read the writings of the early church fathers. Folks like Polycarp, Didache, and Ingatius. It might help you to understand the actual practice that was given to them directly from the apostles.
In my study of many of these early fathers, I am told that much of what they taught was a result of wanting to distance themselves from the Jews. They mixed Christianity with what they knew of worship of gods. You say they were only following "early apostles". One of us is not correct.

It doesn't make sense that the apostles of Christ would teach something opposed to the teaching of Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#7
We are not discussing Blik, here, we are discussing scripture. You speak of what "I expect". "I expect" you to discuss what God expects of you and me, my expectations wouldn't matter even if I was so rash as to expect whatever you think I am "expecting".
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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#8
In my study of many of these early fathers, I am told that much of what they taught was a result of wanting to distance themselves from the Jews. They mixed Christianity with what they knew of worship of gods. You say they were only following "early apostles". One of us is not correct.

It doesn't make sense that the apostles of Christ would teach something opposed to the teaching of Christ.
It is well known that Polycarp was a student of John.
Give an example of where Polycarp contradicted the teaching of Jesus, or Justin Martyr for that matter.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
Scripture says nothing to indicate that Jesus wants us to cancel Passover and substitute our ceremony of taking communion.
When Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper He CANCELLED the Passover. When He died on the 14th of Nisan in 30 AD as the Passover Lamb, He CANCELLED the Passover.

Kindly stop promoting false doctrine.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,409
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#10
1COR. 5:7.
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened.
For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
8.
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of Sincerity and Truth'.
DEU. 12.32.
What thing so ever I command you, observe to do it: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it.' -
the point is,
if Christ, in 'life or death' 'added or diminished' to it, He would have broken the Law, = sinned,
and therefore, He would have 'disqualified Himself from being our Saviour...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,016
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#11
The New wine is a Gracious gift that no works can buy you.

Believe that GOD sent His own Son to pay the price of our sins and redeem us.

Law of Love.
For the Old Testament is not void but fulfilled.
Only One Lamb was able to overcome and found Worthy.

Friends set your heart upon the Good Shepherd whom will find, redeem and guide you in the path of Righteousness.

There be two people in this world.. unbelievers and believers.. The Old Testament Served it’s purpose and that was to bring Salvation to all me men whom Believe.

GOD is Gracious and made Salvation simple and attainable for all.

Be still, Believe in the Lord and ask Him For guidance for He is the Greatest Guide.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#12
In my study of many of these early fathers, I am told that much of what they taught was a result of wanting to distance themselves from the Jews. They mixed Christianity with what they knew of worship of gods. You say they were only following "early apostles". One of us is not correct.

It doesn't make sense that the apostles of Christ would teach something opposed to the teaching of Christ.
What many who invoke early church fathers may or may not know is precisely what you said. Those early church fathers were not keen on respect for the Jewish heritage of the New Testament.
If not simply anti-Jewish they were openly Antisemitic.
We're to believe in God! Not early church fathers.

The Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius, was one such early church father. "For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor…it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity. "


We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.
The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark." Justin Martyr
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#13
In Luke 22:7 to 22 Luke told us all about the last supper Jesus ate just before he was crucified. Our church has interpreted these passages as saying that Jesus was cancelling Passover and establishing a new one and the rite of communion was established. They have assumed this, for if it is to be obeyed as it is written, then we are to “do this in remembrance of me”. Jesus was honoring Passover, so if we “do this” we will be honoring Passover, for that is what Jesus was doing. Scripture says nothing to indicate that Jesus wants us to cancel Passover and substitute our ceremony of taking communion.

nope

Jesus told us to remember Him

and to take of the wine and the bread until He can participate Himself

the assuming is being done on your part and it is so tiresome as to be boring

nonetheless, it is important to refute your false claims which you apparently insist on clinging to
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#14
We are not discussing Blik, here, we are discussing scripture. You speak of what "I expect". "I expect" you to discuss what God expects of you and me, my expectations wouldn't matter even if I was so rash as to expect whatever you think I am "expecting".
The Book of Luke chapter 22
Institution of the Lord's Supper
14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer."


The Book of Numbers chapter 28
Passover Offerings
16 “On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Lord's Passover, 17 and on the fifteenth day of this month is a feast. Seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. 18 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work, 19 but offer a food offering, a burnt offering to the Lord: two bulls from the herd, one ram, and seven male lambs a year old; see that they are without blemish; 20 also their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil; three tenths of an ephah shall you offer for a bull, and two tenths for a ram; 21 a tenth shall you offer for each of the seven lambs; 22 also one male goat for a sin offering, to make atonement for you. 23 You shall offer these besides the burnt offering of the morning, which is for a regular burnt offering. 24 In the same way you shall offer daily, for seven days, the food of a food offering, with a pleasing aroma to the Lord. It shall be offered besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25 And on the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work.

The Book of Mark chapter 14:12
I know many a Christian that celebrate Passover as Jesus intended during his last meal with His Apostles.

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." The Book of Matthew chapter 26


The Passover for the Christian today reveals Jesus.
"Jesus died during the day of preparation which was after the evening of the Passover proper but before the first feast of the Passover week. "
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#15
It is well known that Polycarp was a student of John.
Give an example of where Polycarp contradicted the teaching of Jesus, or Justin Martyr for that matter.
I tried to read what these men wrote and gave them up as too difficult to understand. I took the lazy man's way of reading what was written about what they taught. Origen is listed as a leader in changing the Sabbath and christian celebrations.

My study was prompted by wanting to find out when and how it was the church changed the Sabbath and and celebrations. It answered my questions but admittedly was not an unbiased picture of the overall teaching of early fathers. However I found that some were the cause of these changes in church teachings, it wasn't to better follow God. I found that Constantine was instrumental in making these changes the overall policy of our church.
 

Locoponydirtman

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Oct 9, 2018
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#16
I tried to read what these men wrote and gave them up as too difficult to understand. I took the lazy man's way of reading what was written about what they taught. Origen is listed as a leader in changing the Sabbath and christian celebrations.

My study was prompted by wanting to find out when and how it was the church changed the Sabbath and and celebrations. It answered my questions but admittedly was not an unbiased picture of the overall teaching of early fathers. However I found that some were the cause of these changes in church teachings, it wasn't to better follow God. I found that Constantine was instrumental in making these changes the overall policy of our church.
I have been lightly studying, but have some books and intend to dig in. I appreciate your honesty. May the Lord lead you to wisdom and understanding, may He keep you forever amen.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#17
The Book of Luke chapter 22
Institution of the Lord's Supper
14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer."
What some people are trying to teach is that the sacrifice of Christ on the 14th day of Nisan was meaningless. They think that they can go on doing what was under the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

The very fact that Jesus FULFILLED the Passover by the sacrifice of Himself should be enough. And that is why the Lord's Supper is NOT a reenactment of the Passover meal.

When something is fulfilled, it means that it is finished, it is over, it is not to be repeated. So it is actually Judaistic heresy to revive the Passover, since only unbelieving Jews celebrate Passover (as though Christ's sacrifice meant nothing.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#18
What some people are trying to teach is that the sacrifice of Christ on the 14th day of Nisan was meaningless. They think that they can go on doing what was under the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

The very fact that Jesus FULFILLED the Passover by the sacrifice of Himself should be enough. And that is why the Lord's Supper is NOT a reenactment of the Passover meal.

When something is fulfilled, it means that it is finished, it is over, it is not to be repeated. So it is actually Judaistic heresy to revive the Passover, since only unbelieving Jews celebrate Passover (as though Christ's sacrifice meant nothing.
The 14th day of Nissan is Passover.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#19
What some people are trying to teach is that the sacrifice of Christ on the 14th day of Nisan was meaningless. They think that they can go on doing what was under the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

The very fact that Jesus FULFILLED the Passover by the sacrifice of Himself should be enough. And that is why the Lord's Supper is NOT a reenactment of the Passover meal.

When something is fulfilled, it means that it is finished, it is over, it is not to be repeated. So it is actually Judaistic heresy to revive the Passover, since only unbelieving Jews celebrate Passover (as though Christ's sacrifice meant nothing.
You have a completely different idea of what God meant when God told us Christ fullfilled. Your understanding of this would have been worded as Christ put an end to how our world was created and operates. As in the book of Job, part of God's laws are in the order of the universe--in how the stars work and the tides of the ocean operate. This law and order is still here, Christ put a stop to nothing as He points out to us in the words He left in scripture. I think you are assuming and changing what God tells us.

Christ fulfilled every prophecy. Through what Christ did he fulfilled our hopes of living even though we are of flesh. You are changing His words to say that Christ stopped what? Christ stopped our need to worship God? That is what the feasts are. Christ stopped our need to have His spirit within us? Please use reason and common sense and listen to the word with your heart, too.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#20
FYI:

(excerpt)

Some Christians observe a form of the Jewish holiday of Passover. The practice is found among Assemblies of Yahweh, Messianic Jews, and some congregations of the Church of God (Seventh Day). It is often linked to the Christian holiday and festival of Easter. Often, only an abbreviated seder is celebrated to explain the meaning in a time-limited ceremony. The redemption from the bondage of sin through the sacrifice of Christ is celebrated, a parallel of the Jewish Passover's celebration of redemption from bondage in the land of Egypt.[1]
Christian Passover ceremonies are held on the evening corresponding to 14 Nisan (e.g. April 5, 2012) or 15 Nisan, depending whether the particular church uses a quartodeciman or quintodeciman application. In other cases, the holiday is observed according to the Jewish calendar on 15 Nisan, which is also used by Samaritans.

(found here)

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0g...holiday)/RK=2/RS=X5eg.j.IxXtgYaOraEa4dvuO.PM-

(additional info)

The main Christian view is that the Passover, as observed by ancient Israel as well as Jews today, was a type of the true Passover sacrifice that was to be made by Jesus.[2]
As the Israelites partook of the Passover sacrifice by eating it, most Christians commemorate Jesus' death by taking part in the Lord's Supper, which Jesus is said to have instituted (1Corinthians 11:15-34, Luke 22:19-20). Most Protestants see the elements as symbolic of Jesus' body or as symbols of the presence and or as a memorial to quicken and confirm a faith already held, while Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians hold that the elements are changed into Jesus' body and blood, which they then eat and drink. The Orthodox prefer to use the term, meteousis (change) rather than transubstantiation which is a Western philosophical term applied to a doctrinal concept. Lutherans describe the presence as sacramental union which means that the body and blood are "in, with, and under" the bread and wine. Anglicans believe that the bread and wine are outward and visible symbols and that "The inward and spiritual grace in the Holy Communion is the Body and Blood of Christ given to his people, and received by faith," that is as an objective presence and subjective reception.(BCP 1976. p 859). This definition most closely approximates the words of St. John of Damascus, "the bread and wine are the visible symbols of a spiritual reality."[citation needed]
The spiritual theme of Passover is one of salvation by the atoning blood of a perfect, spotless sacrificed lamb.[citation needed] For many Christians, this is the spiritual pattern seen in Passover which gives it its eternal meaning and significance. The theme is carried on and brought to its ultimate New Covenant fulfillment in the sacrificial death of Christ as the promised sacrifice.[3]


Apparently, there are some professed Christians who STILL believe in living by the Laws of the 1st Covenant that celebrate Passover similar to what the Jews did way back then.....and, mayhaps, today.

IMO, the majority of Christians observe the Last Supper, and Communion......and some of us also celebrate feetwashing as commanded by Christ. Although, many Christians do not think it was a Commandment......don't know why......it's pretty clear in Scripture to me........

John, Chapter 13 starting at verse 4:

He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

17If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

It isn't uncommon for Christians from various denominations/groups to pick and choose what they celebrate, so I'm not surprised when there are differing opinions. Best I can say is a person must study Scripture and decide for themselves what they should do/celebrate.