Jewish & Gentile Relationship

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Dec 12, 2013
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#22
You must never forget, that Paul is pointing to a day that Gentiles must revile the Messiah in a Kosher manner. Do you think Jesus/Yeshua is any way different today as Yosef/Joseph was in Egypt? There are endless books on the coming of Mashiach Ben Yosef and Mashiach Ben David and their differences and they COMPLETELY parallel the life and history and 2,000's of Jesus/Yeshua? It is in our hands to either bring the Messiah to the Jewish people (and that will cost some of us our lives) and we must never boast over them. I pray daily however for ALL souls to know the REAL Jesus and fulfill their roles that we are all called to do.
Not real for sure what you're talking about...."boasting over them"....and for the record...I have witnessed to as many Jews as possible in my life and even on one occasion had one send me a Tanach from N.Y. because I met him at a funeral of his friend and spent three hours talking to him about JESUS....I told him that I love the Jewish people and would lay my life down for a Jewish person in a micro second because after all a Jewish man laid his life down for me.........
 
Oct 8, 2018
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#23
Not real for sure what you're talking about...."boasting over them"....and for the record...I have witnessed to as many Jews as possible in my life and even on one occasion had one send me a Tanach from N.Y. because I met him at a funeral of his friend and spent three hours talking to him about JESUS....I told him that I love the Jewish people and would lay my life down for a Jewish person in a micro second because after all a Jewish man laid his life down for me.........
No no, I never meant it like that. Sorry. That is amazing! :) B"H! For Jews to see Yeshua as Messiah there are tons of barriers such as the holocaust (very vivid in their mines), improper Christian theologies, 2,000 years of persecution and more. If you'd ever want to know how to truly reach them, I'd love to share with you. I am working with a few Rabbi's and one personally at the moment but it definitely is not as simple as "believe in Jesus you must be saved"...
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
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#24
I said "reaching the Jews" has nothing to do with His second coming.
I know that millions of Jews have been saved, but a majority have rejected Him.
And the truth is that more rejected Jesus during His personal ministry ( about 3 1/2 years) than accepted Him as Messiah.
If you think there is going to be a great revival and most Jews will be saved before Jesus returns, you have no understanding of Scripture.

How many non-Jews have been saved compaired to how many of theme there are? Even if a billion are saved there are around 5 billion people in the world. You realize the is only about 15 million of us and over 1 million are SAVED!!!!

So, please explain how I am miss understanding you... Jews have nothing to do with the second coming, it's only the little bit of non-Jews that brings Messiah's return....?

Could both have a part to paly.... even Jews?
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#25
My name is Mike and I truly have a heart for all people on this earth to know G-d and His Messiah Yeshua/Jesus. It is evident that the church has done a wonderful if not an excelling job at reaching various nations (especially in the last 50 years), and spreading the word of G-d to the best of their abilities. But does it not stump you for one minute, that we are not reaching Orthodox Jews? One needs to go no further than any of the Gospels or Romans 11 to recognize one major part of being a "Christian" or "Follower of the Messiah", is to reach the Jewish people about their 100% Kosher/Jewish Messiah. To go even further, we know that Yeshua/Jesus has not completed the FULL mission of what a Messiah must do and the Jews call this Mashiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Yosef) and he will need to return as Mashiach Ben David. Now, this is not to disregard the teachings of Sha'ul/Paul to the Gentiles and their non-observance of the Torah, but as Colossians 1:9-13 teaches us, we even as Gentiles have the Spirit to KNOW G-d's wisdom (Torah), in order to "provoke" Jews back to their Messiah.

Question: Why are we either not reaching this goal of redeeming the Orthodox Jewish Community OR why are we not questioning ourselves for not fulfilling such a major part of our role, which will ring in the Messiah's 2nd coming?
We should reach out to everyone, but God will bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah in the future.

God is going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews.

Jesus has to fulfill the role of perfect King on earth, and then the law will be fulfilled, which He will do in the future, and He will rule out of Jerusalem.

Israel is blinded in part, they acknowledge the Old Testament for the most part, but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved.

It might be kind of hard to reach the Jews concerning the truth of Jesus, for they are blinded in part right now, but in the future God will bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

God said He is going to bring all the Jews out of the nations, and put them on their land, and will not leave any of them in the nations anymore.

Which all of them will be on their land when the man of sin, New Age Christ, establishes peace in the Middle East, which will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, which is what the New Age Christ wants, but God means it for good to the Jews.

The thing we need to warn the Jews about is do not take heed to that man in the future who establishes peace in the Middle East, for three and one half years later he will claim to be their God and Messiah, but he is of the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, and no personal God, and then deceive the world that does not love God to follow him, and when they take the mark of the beast, which has to do with technology, then the fulness of the Gentiles will have come in, and God will turn the nation of Israel to the truth.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#26
My name is Mike and I truly have a heart for all people on this earth to know G-d and His Messiah Yeshua/Jesus. It is evident that the church has done a wonderful if not an excelling job at reaching various nations (especially in the last 50 years), and spreading the word of G-d to the best of their abilities. But does it not stump you for one minute, that we are not reaching Orthodox Jews? One needs to go no further than any of the Gospels or Romans 11 to recognize one major part of being a "Christian" or "Follower of the Messiah", is to reach the Jewish people about their 100% Kosher/Jewish Messiah. To go even further, we know that Yeshua/Jesus has not completed the FULL mission of what a Messiah must do and the Jews call this Mashiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Yosef) and he will need to return as Mashiach Ben David. Now, this is not to disregard the teachings of Sha'ul/Paul to the Gentiles and their non-observance of the Torah, but as Colossians 1:9-13 teaches us, we even as Gentiles have the Spirit to KNOW G-d's wisdom (Torah), in order to "provoke" Jews back to their Messiah.

Question: Why are we either not reaching this goal of redeeming the Orthodox Jewish Community OR why are we not questioning ourselves for not fulfilling such a major part of our role, which will ring in the Messiah's 2nd coming?
You have brought up a very important point. One reason that Israel is not filled with Messianic Jews is because its against the law in Israel to preach the Gospel. Christian organisations working in or for Israel are allowed and encouraged to give material aid to Israeli citizens but on the condition that they don't proselytize. Most Christians living in Israel are ethnic Palestinians Any Jewish congregation would need to keep a very low profile or face persecution from authorities and Orthodox Jews

Judaism as a whole is anti Christian. This is partly due to persecution down the centuries from those who claimed to be Christian
and to reasons found in the bible. Another reason is that many Evangelicals have a strange ideas about how and when Jews are
supposed to be converted ie wait for the second coming to sort it all out. Meanwhile ignore thousands dying without Christ

My last reason given is probably why the thousands of Jews not living in Israel are left to their own devices coupled with the
notion that Judaism as practiced today somehow pleases God
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
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#27
We should reach out to everyone, but God will bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah in the future.

God is going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews.

Jesus has to fulfill the role of perfect King on earth, and then the law will be fulfilled, which He will do in the future, and He will rule out of Jerusalem.

Israel is blinded in part, they acknowledge the Old Testament for the most part, but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved.

It might be kind of hard to reach the Jews concerning the truth of Jesus, for they are blinded in part right now, but in the future God will bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

God said He is going to bring all the Jews out of the nations, and put them on their land, and will not leave any of them in the nations anymore.

Which all of them will be on their land when the man of sin, New Age Christ, establishes peace in the Middle East, which will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, which is what the New Age Christ wants, but God means it for good to the Jews.

The thing we need to warn the Jews about is do not take heed to that man in the future who establishes peace in the Middle East, for three and one half years later he will claim to be their God and Messiah, but he is of the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, and no personal God, and then deceive the world that does not love God to follow him, and when they take the mark of the beast, which has to do with technology, then the fulness of the Gentiles will have come in, and God will turn the nation of Israel to the truth.

This is a bitter, sweet comment.... It is sad for non-Jews yet happy for Jew that "Christians" accept the false, murder babies, in utero, homosexuality/ lesbianism ….same sex marriage, porn, …. How much more from "Christians" before Messiah says it's your time!!!!

But until then it is not someone from the Middle East we should be warned about, but Christians should be making us jealous of their relationship with G-d! And that happens by the word of their testimony and the fruit of the Spirit in there life. And the least of ALL IS LOVE....
 
Oct 8, 2018
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#28
You have brought up a very important point. One reason that Israel is not filled with Messianic Jews is because its against the law in Israel to preach the Gospel. Christian organisations working in or for Israel are allowed and encouraged to give material aid to Israeli citizens but on the condition that they don't proselytize. Most Christians living in Israel are ethnic Palestinians Any Jewish congregation would need to keep a very low profile or face persecution from authorities and Orthodox Jews

Judaism as a whole is anti Christian. This is partly due to persecution down the centuries from those who claimed to be Christian
and to reasons found in the bible. Another reason is that many Evangelicals have a strange ideas about how and when Jews are
supposed to be converted ie wait for the second coming to sort it all out. Meanwhile ignore thousands dying without Christ

My last reason given is probably why the thousands of Jews not living in Israel are left to their own devices coupled with the
notion that Judaism as practiced today somehow pleases God
Good Morning. As to your point in Israel you are 100% correct, "evangelism" is not allowed. However the rest of the world has more than enough Jews (i.e. New York holds almost just the same amount as Israel, yet you do not see Orthodox Jews coming to G-d).

Now unless I am mistaken, by your last statement, you seem to think that following Torah "righteously", verses "legally" is also displeasing to G-d. Please explain? (Matt 5:17-19, Matt 23:1-3, Romans 11, Romans 1:16, Timothy's Circumcision and the whole "Eternal" covenant via Torah Commandments with Jews).

If you somehow think a perfect G-d, somehow to any degree gave an "imperfect Torah" for Jews to follow is true, I would love to hear your explanation for that.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#29
it is clear that Orthodox Jews are not sitting in our churches and they are the only reason we have salvation. They hold the keys to many spiritual gifts (Matt 23:1-3, Romans 15:17, Romans 11, etc). That is the only reason for this post.
i'm sorry but i am failing to see how any of those passages indicate that orthodox Jews "hold the keys to many spiritual gifts" -- we didn't become known by Christ by the seat of Moses, and when He took up His cross and rent the veil He kinda took the seat out from under those who sit in it. by immersion into His death and resurrection we are not under Moses - so we don't come by the gifts of His Spirit through Moses and we're not perfected by becoming like an orthodox Jew.
the orthodox Jew has zero hope outside of the hope we have seized in Jesus: for thousands of years now there has been no temple, no sacrifice, no atonement, no cleansing from sin for the orthodox Jew - the orthodox Jew can be nothing but unorthodox, it being literally impossible to obey the commands of Moses because the implements and the place of worship and intercession given by Moses do not anymore exist. what keys do you think they have? what gifts are locked up under Moses that Christ does not freely give to those who believe Him? inconsolable grief? they have become disobedient in order that we may receive mercy and it is they who will receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to us. this doesn't mean we receive mercy by Moses: and for those under Moses, there is no more mercy seat. it is we, who have Christ, who hold keys to blessings for them, not the other way around -- rather Christ who holds all keys, and dwells in the grafted-in branches, not the cut-off ones -- so far as i read in the passages you cited.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#30
Timothy's Circumcision

because of the Jews which lived there
(Acts 16:3)

by the same righteousness Timothy was circumcised and Titus was left uncircumcised -- was that the righteousness of the law?
Timothy wasn't circumcised as though a requirement, but as a concession.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#31
Question: Why are we either not reaching this goal of redeeming the Orthodox Jewish Community
I would not be too sure about your belief that no religious Jews are coming to believe Jesus..

 
Mar 14, 2011
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#32
I would not be too sure about your belief that no religious Jews are coming to believe Jesus..

Thanks for this, Very informative!

This just goes to show, in any orthodoxy, be it christian (orthodox/catholic), jewish or islamic. They are so deep in tradition and ceremony and the view your relationship with God is based on what you do. Not on who he is, and what he came to do. That it is hard for any of them to come to Christ.

At the same token, God is able to work even n them if they are open. He will show them the way. Like this young lady, And its not works which bring them, it is peoples lives, The sister that came back totally changed because she was a new creature, the friend who took her to church (even though probably not a good church to first experience christian churches) and Gods pulling and leading and guiding.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#33
They arent reached because they are blinded as a nation until the fullness of the gentiles comes in. We do have plenty of missionaries (jewish and gentile ones) in Israel doing work. GOD BLESS THEM
Thats what I believe. Romans 11:25-26

But as many have said here already: There ARE messianic jews, a ton of them! Thousands got saved during Peter's ministry in the 1st century and throughout the centuries.
So there are plenty of jews saved. Just not the majority as a NATION.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#34
Thanks for this, Very informative!

At the same token, God is able to work even n them if they are open. He will show them the way. Like this young lady, And its not works which bring them, it is peoples lives, The sister that came back totally changed because she was a new creature, the friend who took her to church (even though probably not a good church to first experience christian churches) and Gods pulling and leading and guiding.
Yeah even brainiac Jewish scientists.. :)
His Word is powerful like a two edged sword. (y)

 
M

Miri

Guest
#38
Hi mountaindude maybe if this subject is close to your heart.
YOU should be asking God what He wants YOU to do about it.
Instead of you asking others what they are doing about it.

The best evangelists are those where God has put it on their heart.

As for why there are not more Jewish converts, my own experience is that
the Jews form very tight knit communities regardless of the part of the
world thet live in.

It’s very hard to get acceptance into a Jewish community if you are not
Jewish. But even more the reason why Jewish converts should do the
evangelising.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#39
How many non-Jews have been saved compaired to how many of theme there are? Even if a billion are saved there are around 5 billion people in the world. You realize the is only about 15 million of us and over 1 million are SAVED!!!!

So, please explain how I am miss understanding you... Jews have nothing to do with the second coming, it's only the little bit of non-Jews that brings Messiah's return....?

Could both have a part to paly.... even Jews?
Try a current world population at a little over 7 billion........
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#40
They arent reached because they are blinded as a nation until the fullness of the gentiles comes in. We do have plenty of missionaries (jewish and gentile ones) in Israel doing work. GOD BLESS THEM
Thats what I believe. Romans 11:25-26

But as many have said here already: There ARE messianic jews, a ton of them! Thousands got saved during Peter's ministry in the 1st century and throughout the centuries.
So there are plenty of jews saved. Just not the majority as a NATION.

Although I agree that Israel as a nation, is blinded, UNTIL the "fulness of the gentiles" comes in? Which would be the answer I would have given the OP, but ya beat me to it! :p

So the more "pertinent" question should be asked:

Just WHAT does fulness of the gentiles MEAN, or IMPLY, or INSINUATE??!?

Is it a "good" thing? A "Holy" thing, or "event?" A "BAD" thing? An "apostasy" thing, or event?

Something to be known, AFTER it has occurred? As "hindsight" is ALWAYS 20/20, RIGHT?

It just SEEMS to be one of those "dots", that no one is able in "CONNECTING", with, or "TO" ANYTHING! Save, that "AFTERWARDS?" Israel will no longer be blinded?!? (which also brings up a question of "blinded" from, or to what?)

I mean, not even any speculations!

Merely?


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