Job Chapter 10
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I wanted to open a new thread to put everything about Job together (summaries and replies and some new comments in connection with Job) but apparently it"s not possible! So I took an old one without replies. So let's go!
(JOB CHAPTER ONE)
When we start to read the book of Job, it is said that he had everything and he believed in God. But he wasn’t only a believer. His faith was alive, it wasn’t only words, he offered sacrifices in case his children act against God, not only by doing something wrong but also by thinking wrong. It tells us a lot about what it means to have a strong relationship with God. According to God, there was no one like him on Earth regarding integrity and going away from badness. When we listen to the news, we must admit our society is completely at the opposite, getting away from goodness and looking for darkness, whatever people may try to do. Everything goes wrong. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight, on the contrary, but we need energy and a good example such as Job. To prove the rare relationship between God and Job, God lets Satan get rid of all Job’s belongings except Job himself. Then he losts everything (animals, servants, children). At the end of chapter one, Job expresses his pain but also his total respect for God.
- 1 pottersclay :
« The story of job tells me that our faith should be more than a testimony of our present circumstances and surroundings.
As job said he gives and he takes but blessed be his name...how profound.
The one thing that satan could never take away from job is his belief and devotion to the Holy one .
Jesus should be our great reward no matter what the temperal may bring.
Measure your faith in God according to jobs. Where and when would you quit? Be honest.
When seeking answers from God he only got more questions. Who should counsel the Lord.
We may not have all the answers to every question but we must trust the Lord.
If we believe that this earth is not our home, that we are pilgrims on a journey through this world is that just lip service?
As paul said it is a terrible and frightful thing to be in the hands of the almighty.
Job said he has no advocate to plea his case....how sad ...how terrible...but yet we do...praise God for his son jesus.
There are many things to meditate about on this story. It's one that should make us examine ourselves our motives, our devotion, our weaknesses. And give thanks for God's mercy and faithfulness to us. »
Really impressive writings !
- 2 Absolutely :
« Ok
One thing to remember...Job was third party to a " bet" between God and satan.
I read and reread Job.
Check this out ( and I have never heard this preached), Job never knew it was Satan doing all that mischief to him and as far as I can tell ,correct me if I'm wrong, God never told him it was Satan. Now fast-forward to the New Testament .
the dynamic is reversed in the New Testament .
Satan is already defeated and he is exposed.
with Job he was not exposed ...and watch this ....Jesus gave us authority over him even though he's defeated.
we have authority over that defeated foe .
you look at the armor of God, the Shield of Faith to quench all the fiery darts of the enemy that means if you're in faith ,Satan cannot get to you .
when you see the darts you can see that he is trying to attack you.
we are the family of God and we have an enemy .
it was different with Job because Job is not a new testament dynamic. Job in my opinion represents the destruction of the flesh .
and another thing job represents is the tenacity ,determination, and the single-mindedness of the True Believer. »
Interesting thoughts indeed !
(JOB CHAPTER ONE)
When we start to read the book of Job, it is said that he had everything and he believed in God. But he wasn’t only a believer. His faith was alive, it wasn’t only words, he offered sacrifices in case his children act against God, not only by doing something wrong but also by thinking wrong. It tells us a lot about what it means to have a strong relationship with God. According to God, there was no one like him on Earth regarding integrity and going away from badness. When we listen to the news, we must admit our society is completely at the opposite, getting away from goodness and looking for darkness, whatever people may try to do. Everything goes wrong. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight, on the contrary, but we need energy and a good example such as Job. To prove the rare relationship between God and Job, God lets Satan get rid of all Job’s belongings except Job himself. Then he losts everything (animals, servants, children). At the end of chapter one, Job expresses his pain but also his total respect for God.
- 1 pottersclay :
« The story of job tells me that our faith should be more than a testimony of our present circumstances and surroundings.
As job said he gives and he takes but blessed be his name...how profound.
The one thing that satan could never take away from job is his belief and devotion to the Holy one .
Jesus should be our great reward no matter what the temperal may bring.
Measure your faith in God according to jobs. Where and when would you quit? Be honest.
When seeking answers from God he only got more questions. Who should counsel the Lord.
We may not have all the answers to every question but we must trust the Lord.
If we believe that this earth is not our home, that we are pilgrims on a journey through this world is that just lip service?
As paul said it is a terrible and frightful thing to be in the hands of the almighty.
Job said he has no advocate to plea his case....how sad ...how terrible...but yet we do...praise God for his son jesus.
There are many things to meditate about on this story. It's one that should make us examine ourselves our motives, our devotion, our weaknesses. And give thanks for God's mercy and faithfulness to us. »
Really impressive writings !
- 2 Absolutely :
« Ok
One thing to remember...Job was third party to a " bet" between God and satan.
I read and reread Job.
Check this out ( and I have never heard this preached), Job never knew it was Satan doing all that mischief to him and as far as I can tell ,correct me if I'm wrong, God never told him it was Satan. Now fast-forward to the New Testament .
the dynamic is reversed in the New Testament .
Satan is already defeated and he is exposed.
with Job he was not exposed ...and watch this ....Jesus gave us authority over him even though he's defeated.
we have authority over that defeated foe .
you look at the armor of God, the Shield of Faith to quench all the fiery darts of the enemy that means if you're in faith ,Satan cannot get to you .
when you see the darts you can see that he is trying to attack you.
we are the family of God and we have an enemy .
it was different with Job because Job is not a new testament dynamic. Job in my opinion represents the destruction of the flesh .
and another thing job represents is the tenacity ,determination, and the single-mindedness of the True Believer. »
Interesting thoughts indeed !
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1
- Show all
- 3 pottersclay :
« No I believe job spoke from honesty from the heart from what he had seen and was going through.
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God.
This is how the Lord saw him . So God had no issues with job.
The story of job is how our faith should be . Our faith should be upon a rock foundation.
Our belief must turn into faith.
The Lord never said he would keep your life free from hardships, tragedies, disparity but he did promise to see us through. Sometimes providing a means of escape.
The book of job reflects the life of Jesus himself.
Look at all jesus went through not only at the cross but also throughout his life.
Now tell me who was more faithful than Christ himself?
Yet ...rejection, betral, 40 days in the wilderness, death threats, his own mother sought to put him away.
Contempt, disowned, and now he faced the cross that his own father was pleased to break him. Not only that but separate himself from him.
But as in the case of job so to that all will be restored even better when our Lord our savior returns.
For the glory that was set before him he endure the cross.
Jesus said "pick up your cross and follow me."......
As jesus told John the Baptist....Suffer theses things to be so now.
" In this world you will suffer many tribulations but be of good cheer I have over come this world".
Make sense??? »
- 4 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Thank you, PC. I really enjoyed all of your work above. I think that what I was saying, though, is that it wasn't until after God had unleashed Satan that Job began to unravel, in my opinion. Yes, the Lord had no issues with Job prior to Satan's arrival, but it was after Satan began to do the amazing things he did that Job's attitude was troublesome.
I always feel like I'm hard on Job and think to myself that if I go back and read his thoughts that are directed to the Lord, that I would perhaps feel better about Job . . . I find that I don't (and it doesn't matter which translation I use). My last reading through Job was through the amazing Jewish Tanakh, and sure enough, Job seems so rude to the Lord, almost as if Job had never had any real Spiritual experience with Him. Its as if when the Lord replied to Job that he began to grasp the True reality of God. I can relate to that idea (if that idea is True.) Short explanation:
My earliest memories of life include my "belief" in God and I really believed that my Faith and ideas of Faith were genuine. But, the incredible Spiritual experience that I had within the Arizona desert completely changed my scope of the reality of God. This was the moment that I realized my mud-puddle-like Faith. My Faith was shallow and muddy . . . very unclear. I get the feeling that Job experienced something like that when the Lord began to reply to Job. It was after the Lord replied to the Job that Job's unsavory attitude began to change . . . and there [is] a change. As said, this is precisely what happened to me. I realized that my Faith was not founded upon a solid foundation, but founded on a Gospel that was not complete at all. Absolutely, Job was much more Holy and Righteous than I, I was Truly a piece of sinful trash.
I don't know. I guess I just find it interesting that in all of Job's response . . . he didn't sin. To me, it appears that he sinned, thus I wonder if perhaps there was some sort of human translation error. Having experienced the Lord as I have, to the degree that if I had felt more of His Power, Peace, and Love, that my physical body would have been somehow altered, I cannot imagine having the thoughts that he had about God. Since my experience with Him, I know that it doesn't matter what happens to me in the world, even should I lose ALL things, including my total freedom, I would never speak the things that came from Job's mouth. It is impossible that I would think as he thought. Also, when I read the work of Paul, I can see that he never says anything like what Job had said. Regardless of Pauls being beaten to the point of likely death, being naked, shipwrecked, abandoned by all in the province of Asai, for example, he never said anything like what Job said.
Thanks for reading . . . I love to write and could go on and on about this. I guess that I love our Father so much that it hurts to read of Job's views of Him. Job seemed to have so little Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding.
IF I have offended anyone by what I wrote above, please accept my apologies. I am only writing from my heart. »
« No I believe job spoke from honesty from the heart from what he had seen and was going through.
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God.
This is how the Lord saw him . So God had no issues with job.
The story of job is how our faith should be . Our faith should be upon a rock foundation.
Our belief must turn into faith.
The Lord never said he would keep your life free from hardships, tragedies, disparity but he did promise to see us through. Sometimes providing a means of escape.
The book of job reflects the life of Jesus himself.
Look at all jesus went through not only at the cross but also throughout his life.
Now tell me who was more faithful than Christ himself?
Yet ...rejection, betral, 40 days in the wilderness, death threats, his own mother sought to put him away.
Contempt, disowned, and now he faced the cross that his own father was pleased to break him. Not only that but separate himself from him.
But as in the case of job so to that all will be restored even better when our Lord our savior returns.
For the glory that was set before him he endure the cross.
Jesus said "pick up your cross and follow me."......
As jesus told John the Baptist....Suffer theses things to be so now.
" In this world you will suffer many tribulations but be of good cheer I have over come this world".
Make sense??? »
- 4 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Thank you, PC. I really enjoyed all of your work above. I think that what I was saying, though, is that it wasn't until after God had unleashed Satan that Job began to unravel, in my opinion. Yes, the Lord had no issues with Job prior to Satan's arrival, but it was after Satan began to do the amazing things he did that Job's attitude was troublesome.
I always feel like I'm hard on Job and think to myself that if I go back and read his thoughts that are directed to the Lord, that I would perhaps feel better about Job . . . I find that I don't (and it doesn't matter which translation I use). My last reading through Job was through the amazing Jewish Tanakh, and sure enough, Job seems so rude to the Lord, almost as if Job had never had any real Spiritual experience with Him. Its as if when the Lord replied to Job that he began to grasp the True reality of God. I can relate to that idea (if that idea is True.) Short explanation:
My earliest memories of life include my "belief" in God and I really believed that my Faith and ideas of Faith were genuine. But, the incredible Spiritual experience that I had within the Arizona desert completely changed my scope of the reality of God. This was the moment that I realized my mud-puddle-like Faith. My Faith was shallow and muddy . . . very unclear. I get the feeling that Job experienced something like that when the Lord began to reply to Job. It was after the Lord replied to the Job that Job's unsavory attitude began to change . . . and there [is] a change. As said, this is precisely what happened to me. I realized that my Faith was not founded upon a solid foundation, but founded on a Gospel that was not complete at all. Absolutely, Job was much more Holy and Righteous than I, I was Truly a piece of sinful trash.
I don't know. I guess I just find it interesting that in all of Job's response . . . he didn't sin. To me, it appears that he sinned, thus I wonder if perhaps there was some sort of human translation error. Having experienced the Lord as I have, to the degree that if I had felt more of His Power, Peace, and Love, that my physical body would have been somehow altered, I cannot imagine having the thoughts that he had about God. Since my experience with Him, I know that it doesn't matter what happens to me in the world, even should I lose ALL things, including my total freedom, I would never speak the things that came from Job's mouth. It is impossible that I would think as he thought. Also, when I read the work of Paul, I can see that he never says anything like what Job had said. Regardless of Pauls being beaten to the point of likely death, being naked, shipwrecked, abandoned by all in the province of Asai, for example, he never said anything like what Job said.
Thanks for reading . . . I love to write and could go on and on about this. I guess that I love our Father so much that it hurts to read of Job's views of Him. Job seemed to have so little Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding.
IF I have offended anyone by what I wrote above, please accept my apologies. I am only writing from my heart. »
Job was absolutely not rude to God, every time he explains that he is complaining to God and calling for help, he wants to explain himself, his feelings. There was no one like him on earth. Satan chose Job to provoke God. He didn’t choose him by chance. He knew that Job had a special relationship with God, that makes all the difference. And he made everything to destroy this special relationship, he used a well-studied strategy, a progressive one to break Job into pieces. Job could see it wasn’t chance, it was supernatural, everything was well-organized. And if he could do it with the special one, he could do it with any human being. That’s the special relationship he had with God which made him speak that way. We must never forget that at the end of the book, God condemns Job’s three associates because they spoke badly of God but also of Job. They didn’t say the truth about both. They had to offer a sacrifice and he put their fate in Job’s hands. We must take everything into account not just part of the story or focus on a part and forget the whole. There was no change in Job’s attitude toward God. And nothing is said about the fourth one so think about it ! God just explained to him that he is aware of things that human beings don’t know. Job realized he didn’t have all the facts.
At the end of the Book, God addresses Job by using « na’ » which is far more than a polite form having to do with « please », it’s a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty, which may usually be rendered: "I pray," "now," or "then". And I have never heard God addressing a human being that way.
There is something I don’t understand. We have all the information about the story, information Job didn’t have, we know it’s an issue between God and Satan, so it’s not at human level, we know what God thinks about Job, there is no one like him on earth, that he condemns his three associates because they speak badly about God and Job, we know he puts their fate in Job’s hands, he rewards him a lot, he addresses to him with “na’”, so how is it possible to think at human level, it’s a nonsense! Ok I can speak like that because I have spent far more time than all of you to write about the subject, hours and hours, reading and reading again everything everybody writes about Job, not only reading Job and also making a lot of research!
At the end of the Book, God addresses Job by using « na’ » which is far more than a polite form having to do with « please », it’s a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty, which may usually be rendered: "I pray," "now," or "then". And I have never heard God addressing a human being that way.
There is something I don’t understand. We have all the information about the story, information Job didn’t have, we know it’s an issue between God and Satan, so it’s not at human level, we know what God thinks about Job, there is no one like him on earth, that he condemns his three associates because they speak badly about God and Job, we know he puts their fate in Job’s hands, he rewards him a lot, he addresses to him with “na’”, so how is it possible to think at human level, it’s a nonsense! Ok I can speak like that because I have spent far more time than all of you to write about the subject, hours and hours, reading and reading again everything everybody writes about Job, not only reading Job and also making a lot of research!
- 5 2ndTimothyGroup :
« 1 Peter 5:10 NLT - "In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation."
Job didn't seem to understand 1 Pet 5:10 above, but I do. I get it, so I don't say things like "I wish I were never born!" »
Don’t think at human level, Job lived at another time, before Jesus came and he had a part in a non human issue !
- 6 Pilgrimshope :
« one of the most edifying books in the ot it’s complex if we don’t follow who’s saying what especially when jobs friends start speaking a lot of what they tell him is wrong and God later points it out to job but if we do follow that part it’s amazing »
And the fact that Job had a part in a non human issue !
- 7 iTheophilus :
« Just a little bit more to say if I may. Job didn’t even have the power of the Holy Spirit to put Satan in his place… So when things get a little rough, that‘s the time we need to think back on Job and the suffering that he went through, and it‘s an example for each one of us today. I think perhaps God had a purpose in allowing Job to be attacked by Satan—to encourage us to stay faithful to our God and endure to the end. Job loved God through thick and thin. How can we not do the same? Jesus walks by our side and He will always lighten our load so that we can bear whatever comes our way. He will never leave us nor forsake us. »
Job had a part in a non human issue where all the angels were watching !
- 8 Gardenias :
« Earth shaking and heart lifting are those words Job spoke.... PTL! »
- 9 Pilgrimshope :
« amen I note in the very end a great example of Christianity everything he had lost he found more in the end
“So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Keren–happuch. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days.”
Job 42:12-17 KJV
through tribulations into glory
“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”
Romans 8:18
one key to getting through sufferings is having a firm hope of what God has promised in the gospel »
- 10 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I think that I'm the odd man out, here. I've never been inspired by Job. I'm certainly not an expert on the man, but I have read the book of Job several times. If you can think of it, is there a passage that really grabs your heart? Maybe your thoughts and inspiration will rub off and onto me. Maybe? I hope so. «
No way, if you don’t get the whole picture, you will never understand the Book of Job. We always must remember that it is a non-human issue which is still effective.
« 1 Peter 5:10 NLT - "In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation."
Job didn't seem to understand 1 Pet 5:10 above, but I do. I get it, so I don't say things like "I wish I were never born!" »
Don’t think at human level, Job lived at another time, before Jesus came and he had a part in a non human issue !
- 6 Pilgrimshope :
« one of the most edifying books in the ot it’s complex if we don’t follow who’s saying what especially when jobs friends start speaking a lot of what they tell him is wrong and God later points it out to job but if we do follow that part it’s amazing »
And the fact that Job had a part in a non human issue !
- 7 iTheophilus :
« Just a little bit more to say if I may. Job didn’t even have the power of the Holy Spirit to put Satan in his place… So when things get a little rough, that‘s the time we need to think back on Job and the suffering that he went through, and it‘s an example for each one of us today. I think perhaps God had a purpose in allowing Job to be attacked by Satan—to encourage us to stay faithful to our God and endure to the end. Job loved God through thick and thin. How can we not do the same? Jesus walks by our side and He will always lighten our load so that we can bear whatever comes our way. He will never leave us nor forsake us. »
Job had a part in a non human issue where all the angels were watching !
- 8 Gardenias :
« Earth shaking and heart lifting are those words Job spoke.... PTL! »
- 9 Pilgrimshope :
« amen I note in the very end a great example of Christianity everything he had lost he found more in the end
“So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Keren–happuch. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days.”
Job 42:12-17 KJV
through tribulations into glory
“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”
Romans 8:18
one key to getting through sufferings is having a firm hope of what God has promised in the gospel »
- 10 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I think that I'm the odd man out, here. I've never been inspired by Job. I'm certainly not an expert on the man, but I have read the book of Job several times. If you can think of it, is there a passage that really grabs your heart? Maybe your thoughts and inspiration will rub off and onto me. Maybe? I hope so. «
No way, if you don’t get the whole picture, you will never understand the Book of Job. We always must remember that it is a non-human issue which is still effective.
- 11 soberxp :
« I always thought someone would mistakenly understand Job's story. »
« What do you mean, Sober? » (2ndTimothyGroup)
« For example, instead of focusing on what Job did, but focusing on what Satan did on Job »
In fact, it’s necessary to focus on both, it’s intermingled because of its non-human issue !
- 12 2ndTimothyGroup :
« As I have read Job, I struggle to see how he did [not] sin. I feel that if I said the things that Job said about (and to) the Lord, I'd be shaking in my proverbial boots. In fact, I am bothered by many of the things that Job said . . . they really rub me wrong. »
No human issue, no human level ! We shouldn’t. Who was condemn by God ?
- 13 :
« the dialogue between God and Job starting from JOB 38 to the end (not forgetting 38:3 and 40:7 when God says please to Job, if it's written in your Bible) »
It helps us to understand the whole book but it is necessary to think of the book as a whole, you can’t keep a piece, it doesn’t work ! A global vision is essential, all the events are interconnected !
- 14 2ndTimothyGroup :
« For sure. I can't take that away from Job. You're right. »
« Job 33:1 - That really is quite an amazing find. I hadn't ever noticed that. I like that point ... a lot. »
« For what its worth, my Jewish Tanakh doesn't include the word "Please" in either of the verses. Interesting. »
- 15 iTheophilus :
« I'm wondering if the "please" is an inference due to Almighty God's pleading? Chapter 38 is heartbreakingly incredible—the LOVE of God! I'll share a small portion of it....and Chapter 39 is equally amazing!
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; When I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!' - Job 38:1-11 »
« I always thought someone would mistakenly understand Job's story. »
« What do you mean, Sober? » (2ndTimothyGroup)
« For example, instead of focusing on what Job did, but focusing on what Satan did on Job »
In fact, it’s necessary to focus on both, it’s intermingled because of its non-human issue !
- 12 2ndTimothyGroup :
« As I have read Job, I struggle to see how he did [not] sin. I feel that if I said the things that Job said about (and to) the Lord, I'd be shaking in my proverbial boots. In fact, I am bothered by many of the things that Job said . . . they really rub me wrong. »
No human issue, no human level ! We shouldn’t. Who was condemn by God ?
- 13 :
« the dialogue between God and Job starting from JOB 38 to the end (not forgetting 38:3 and 40:7 when God says please to Job, if it's written in your Bible) »
It helps us to understand the whole book but it is necessary to think of the book as a whole, you can’t keep a piece, it doesn’t work ! A global vision is essential, all the events are interconnected !
- 14 2ndTimothyGroup :
« For sure. I can't take that away from Job. You're right. »
« Job 33:1 - That really is quite an amazing find. I hadn't ever noticed that. I like that point ... a lot. »
« For what its worth, my Jewish Tanakh doesn't include the word "Please" in either of the verses. Interesting. »
- 15 iTheophilus :
« I'm wondering if the "please" is an inference due to Almighty God's pleading? Chapter 38 is heartbreakingly incredible—the LOVE of God! I'll share a small portion of it....and Chapter 39 is equally amazing!
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; When I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!' - Job 38:1-11 »
- 16 Gideon300 :
« Job knew much about God but he did not know God as a person. As a result, Job misunderstood God, hence his complaint. It's a wonderful example of how God wants to relate to us. We can know about Jesus from what we read in the Bible. He is the one with the robe, the beard and the sandals, healing the sick and raising the dead. We can, and should, get to know Him as the Lord of All, the King of Kings, but also as the Friend of sinners like us. We can accept all the teachings and all the facts about Jesus and yet still not accept Him. »
In fact, he didn’t know he had part in a non-human issue !
- 17 IceDaisey :
« I think many a Christian have your same concerns.
For me it is a profound answer.
Yes, there are passages that give assurance Christians are kept secure from the reach of Satan because we are sealed and indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.
I see Job's experience as what happened when God released his protection of Job. Because as God tells us elsewhere in the Bible, he does all that he pleased with his creation.
He's the potter. Job was the clay.
God let Job suffer in order to win a wager with the Devil.
And while God is Omniscient and predestinated all things.
Very concerning indeed.
Especially when it is curious too how Satan is permitted to return to Heaven to confer with God after being cast out.
« I t
1 question leads to lots more.
Speaking of Satan being cast out. How is there sin in Heaven? Satan's rebellion.
Heaven is suppose to be the final destination of those redeemed of their sins. »
- 18 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your view.
My view is a lot different. To me, this is God mocking Job. Why? Because Job thought he had the right perspective on "things." The Truth is, is that Job was without knowledge. Not good. Because Job was so rude in his speech, God told Job to "brace himself like a man." In other words, "I'm about to rip you a new one."
To me, the above passage is painful to read. He is setting job deeply in his place, and God does that because Job was just such an incredible man? No, I don't think so. The Lord places Job deep in his seat because Job was so far out of line. God is essentially saying, "Who do you think you are, boy?"
But hey, I have been wrong over and over again in this life, and in so many areas. »
Definitely not, he only has a part in a non-human issue : it is often difficult for people to understand God’s ways, why it takes time to establish things. Our lives are short, time doesn’t count for God. But he also uses time to get good servants through hard life in the wilderness !
« Job knew much about God but he did not know God as a person. As a result, Job misunderstood God, hence his complaint. It's a wonderful example of how God wants to relate to us. We can know about Jesus from what we read in the Bible. He is the one with the robe, the beard and the sandals, healing the sick and raising the dead. We can, and should, get to know Him as the Lord of All, the King of Kings, but also as the Friend of sinners like us. We can accept all the teachings and all the facts about Jesus and yet still not accept Him. »
In fact, he didn’t know he had part in a non-human issue !
- 17 IceDaisey :
« I think many a Christian have your same concerns.
For me it is a profound answer.
Yes, there are passages that give assurance Christians are kept secure from the reach of Satan because we are sealed and indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.
I see Job's experience as what happened when God released his protection of Job. Because as God tells us elsewhere in the Bible, he does all that he pleased with his creation.
He's the potter. Job was the clay.
God let Job suffer in order to win a wager with the Devil.
And while God is Omniscient and predestinated all things.
Very concerning indeed.
Especially when it is curious too how Satan is permitted to return to Heaven to confer with God after being cast out.
« I t
1 question leads to lots more.
Speaking of Satan being cast out. How is there sin in Heaven? Satan's rebellion.
Heaven is suppose to be the final destination of those redeemed of their sins. »
- 18 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your view.
My view is a lot different. To me, this is God mocking Job. Why? Because Job thought he had the right perspective on "things." The Truth is, is that Job was without knowledge. Not good. Because Job was so rude in his speech, God told Job to "brace himself like a man." In other words, "I'm about to rip you a new one."
To me, the above passage is painful to read. He is setting job deeply in his place, and God does that because Job was just such an incredible man? No, I don't think so. The Lord places Job deep in his seat because Job was so far out of line. God is essentially saying, "Who do you think you are, boy?"
But hey, I have been wrong over and over again in this life, and in so many areas. »
Definitely not, he only has a part in a non-human issue : it is often difficult for people to understand God’s ways, why it takes time to establish things. Our lives are short, time doesn’t count for God. But he also uses time to get good servants through hard life in the wilderness !
- 19 2ndTimothyGroup :
« The above quote is spot on. I mean . . . total bullseye, especially when you relate this idea to the modern-day "christian." Certainly, I will say that you described me, for although I THOUGHT I was a True believer, I later came to realize that I was nowhere close. I had virtually little to no proper understanding of God's Word . . . at . . . all.
And if I read your words correctly, it wouldn't surprise me if I have met the Lord prior to becoming a True Child of God. As I look at my past life, while I was a sinful piece of human waste, I can still see that I was always completely different from all others around me. My heart was soft, tender, loving, and sincere. But because I was picked on for this "way" about myself, I became bitter, for in having no support from family and a decent set of friends, I turned to drugs, alcohol, sex . . . all things that made me feel better. I was miserable in this world, but sought the pleasures of the Devil to simply make me feel better . . . to help put a smile on my face.
Job, obviously, wasn't in my condition, for the Lord had a most positive view of Job prior to his insane inflictions. I am just saying that my sinful life proved that I did not know who God was in a deep and personal way as I do now.
Having experienced the Raw, Almighty, Power of God, I was humbled perhaps in a similar way that of Job. (God, forgive me if I have overstepped my limits in my above wording.) »
Job wasn’t humbled, he just told him that men don’t know what God knows, we don’t know all the implications, we just know partially, but it is true for all of us without exception ! But we need to forget the human level and think as God thinks, time doesn’t matter even when we die ! He will remember Job and he will remember his servants !
- 20 2ndTimothyGroup :
« All great questions. As I continue to read and read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, I do not understand how few see what I see, which is that God is in control of ALL things. All events. Particularly in the Old Testament, the Lord literally determines what people are allowed to think. Just as individual hedges were placed around Satan and Job, we are all controlled to be a specific way. The Curse of the Lord causes us to be a certain way. Possessing the Divine Nature . . . this too, causes us to be a specific way. Hence, the Mind of Christ.
I know people don't like it, but the Bible (to me) seems like we are something akin to rats in a cage, and the only way out is through death. »
Human level or God’s level ? Impossible ! When we serve God, we serve the creator of all the universe, there is no one like him, he is the source of knowlegde ! There is so much to learn especially in the future !
- 21 Icedaisey :
« I didn't find "please" in either chapter 38 or 40 in the NIV version.
I did find a reference to the Pleadies in chapter 38.
This is interesting.
Job 40 ESV, God challenges Job.
12. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low
and tread down the wicked where they stand.
13 Hide them all in the dust together;
bind their faces in the world below.
14 Then will I also acknowledge to you
that your own right hand can save you. »
« The above quote is spot on. I mean . . . total bullseye, especially when you relate this idea to the modern-day "christian." Certainly, I will say that you described me, for although I THOUGHT I was a True believer, I later came to realize that I was nowhere close. I had virtually little to no proper understanding of God's Word . . . at . . . all.
And if I read your words correctly, it wouldn't surprise me if I have met the Lord prior to becoming a True Child of God. As I look at my past life, while I was a sinful piece of human waste, I can still see that I was always completely different from all others around me. My heart was soft, tender, loving, and sincere. But because I was picked on for this "way" about myself, I became bitter, for in having no support from family and a decent set of friends, I turned to drugs, alcohol, sex . . . all things that made me feel better. I was miserable in this world, but sought the pleasures of the Devil to simply make me feel better . . . to help put a smile on my face.
Job, obviously, wasn't in my condition, for the Lord had a most positive view of Job prior to his insane inflictions. I am just saying that my sinful life proved that I did not know who God was in a deep and personal way as I do now.
Having experienced the Raw, Almighty, Power of God, I was humbled perhaps in a similar way that of Job. (God, forgive me if I have overstepped my limits in my above wording.) »
Job wasn’t humbled, he just told him that men don’t know what God knows, we don’t know all the implications, we just know partially, but it is true for all of us without exception ! But we need to forget the human level and think as God thinks, time doesn’t matter even when we die ! He will remember Job and he will remember his servants !
- 20 2ndTimothyGroup :
« All great questions. As I continue to read and read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, I do not understand how few see what I see, which is that God is in control of ALL things. All events. Particularly in the Old Testament, the Lord literally determines what people are allowed to think. Just as individual hedges were placed around Satan and Job, we are all controlled to be a specific way. The Curse of the Lord causes us to be a certain way. Possessing the Divine Nature . . . this too, causes us to be a specific way. Hence, the Mind of Christ.
I know people don't like it, but the Bible (to me) seems like we are something akin to rats in a cage, and the only way out is through death. »
Human level or God’s level ? Impossible ! When we serve God, we serve the creator of all the universe, there is no one like him, he is the source of knowlegde ! There is so much to learn especially in the future !
- 21 Icedaisey :
« I didn't find "please" in either chapter 38 or 40 in the NIV version.
I did find a reference to the Pleadies in chapter 38.
This is interesting.
Job 40 ESV, God challenges Job.
12. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low
and tread down the wicked where they stand.
13 Hide them all in the dust together;
bind their faces in the world below.
14 Then will I also acknowledge to you
that your own right hand can save you. »
- 22 iTheophilus :
« Job 1:8 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
When God addressed Satan, He asked him, "Have you seen My man Job while you were down there on earth? Today, Satan is still standing before the throne of God as the Accuser, and every time we sin and fall short, Satan is there to call attention to our deeds before God.
Job 1:9 "Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Doth Job fear God for nought?"
No doubt about it; Satan saw Job and all of his riches and wealth.
Fear can also be another word for revere.
Job 1:10 "Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land."
Job and his family had been blessed beyond all other men of the time, and Satan, of course, accuses since that's what "the Accuser" does, right? ....and it's the same way he operates in our lives today.
Job 1:11 "But put forth Thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and He will curse Thee to Thy face."
Never throughout his ordeal did Job curse God.
Job 1:12 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord."
Satan warned God that if He took all of Job's power and wealth, he would curse Him face to face. But don't you think the Creator (who created Job) knew what kind of man Job was before He created him? I believe that in chapter 38, God is simply reminding Job of what he already knows. Job was always someone God could rely on. That’s why He allowed Satan to do what he did.
This is the same strategy that Satan employs today against Christians. We will all be tested in this final generation. That’s been our destiny before the foundations of this earth age were even laid. We were predestined for it! I truly believe the book of Job is a type of what Christians will face when Satan arrives here on earth at the 6th trump. »
- 23 Absolutely :
« In the hebrew interlinear it does say " please"
King james say " i pray thee"
But several words will work.
Interesting subject. »
-24 :
« na’ »
a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty, which may usually be rendered: "I pray," "now," or "then"
definition :
1. I (we) pray, now, please
2. used in entreaty or exhortation
NAS Word Usage - Total: 38
Ah 2, beg 1, beseech 1, come 3, implore 1, may 1, now 159, O 2, O may 1, Oh 10, Oh may 2, please 181, please* 1, pray 16
« Job 1:8 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
When God addressed Satan, He asked him, "Have you seen My man Job while you were down there on earth? Today, Satan is still standing before the throne of God as the Accuser, and every time we sin and fall short, Satan is there to call attention to our deeds before God.
Job 1:9 "Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Doth Job fear God for nought?"
No doubt about it; Satan saw Job and all of his riches and wealth.
Fear can also be another word for revere.
Job 1:10 "Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land."
Job and his family had been blessed beyond all other men of the time, and Satan, of course, accuses since that's what "the Accuser" does, right? ....and it's the same way he operates in our lives today.
Job 1:11 "But put forth Thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and He will curse Thee to Thy face."
Never throughout his ordeal did Job curse God.
Job 1:12 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord."
Satan warned God that if He took all of Job's power and wealth, he would curse Him face to face. But don't you think the Creator (who created Job) knew what kind of man Job was before He created him? I believe that in chapter 38, God is simply reminding Job of what he already knows. Job was always someone God could rely on. That’s why He allowed Satan to do what he did.
This is the same strategy that Satan employs today against Christians. We will all be tested in this final generation. That’s been our destiny before the foundations of this earth age were even laid. We were predestined for it! I truly believe the book of Job is a type of what Christians will face when Satan arrives here on earth at the 6th trump. »
- 23 Absolutely :
« In the hebrew interlinear it does say " please"
King james say " i pray thee"
But several words will work.
Interesting subject. »
-24 :
« na’ »
a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty, which may usually be rendered: "I pray," "now," or "then"
definition :
1. I (we) pray, now, please
2. used in entreaty or exhortation
NAS Word Usage - Total: 38
Ah 2, beg 1, beseech 1, come 3, implore 1, may 1, now 159, O 2, O may 1, Oh 10, Oh may 2, please 181, please* 1, pray 16
- 25 :
I will remember the meaning: a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty which may usually be rendered : I pray, now or then
Job 1:11: Satan speaks to God = please / translated by now
Job 2:5: Satan speaks to God = please / translated by now
Job 4:7: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by I pray thee
Job 5:1: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by now
Job 6:29: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by I pray you
Job 8:8: Bildad speaks = please / translated by I pray thee
Job 10:9: Job speaks = please / translated by I beseech thee
Job 12:7: same = please / translated by now
Job 13:6: same = please / translated by now
Job 13:18: same = please / translated by now
Job 17:3: same = please / translated by now
Job 17:10: same = please / translated by now
Job 22:21-22: Eliphaz speaks = please and please / translated by now and I pray thee
Job 32:21: Elihu speaks = please / translated by I pray you
Job 33:1-2: same = please and please / translated by I pray thee and now
Job 38:3: God speaks to Job = please / translated by now
Job 40:7: same = please / translated by now
Job 40:15-16: same = please and please / translated by now and now
Job 42:4: Job speaks to God = please / translated by I beseech thee
We may think about the differences of meanings in Old Hebrew and modern Hebrew, Old Greek and Modern Greek and it is the same with all languages: They are alive so they evolve. Now the translator has a big responsibility of how he translates because when you can’t get the original you may be lost if you get a translated word which can be diluted or lost its original meaning. That’s why it’s always interesting to go back to the original and see what the dictionaries say precisely. That’s the same when you look at “na’”: when you think of all the possible translations, you may be lost, but when you think of the general meaning it’s clearer (a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty). If you just keep in mind the translation of a Bible version, you will miss the point. It’s also a good way to get information about the translator’s dedication or commitment. It also shows how we should be careful when we defend an idea without checking the general meaning.
- 26 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I am very sorry, but I don't quite think I understand (my issue, not yours.) Would you be suggesting that God appreciated Job because of his forthright and incessant complaining? It seems (to me) that Job had a change of attitude after God said, "Brace yourself like a man." It was only after this that Job began to realize his errors, which the Lord so duly pointed out.
One thing that I didn't mention is that I really liked what his three friends had to say to him. Yet they were at fault? I thought that their mindsets and attitudes were incredible! It seems (to me) that their frame of thinking was spot on. Therefore, it wasn't the words of Job that inspire me, but the words of his three friends.
I just don't know anymore. I'm beaten down and tired . . . and really set back (if not discouraged) over my recent realizations of how I have not understood Scripture as I thought I did. At this point in my life, I'm sick of myself and my ideas and would just rather listen to all of you. So, I will be posting more threads so that, with the help of many of you here, I can get myself together. I am so tired. »
Try to think about how God thinks ! Forget the human level even if it’s not easy ! Why do you think God says there is no one like Job on earth when Job was alive and he lived a lot more ! Why did he condemn his accusers and put them in Job’s hands ! Why did he reward him to such an extent ! Think of the part he had in such a non-human issue, not knowing what was on ?
I will remember the meaning: a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty which may usually be rendered : I pray, now or then
Job 1:11: Satan speaks to God = please / translated by now
Job 2:5: Satan speaks to God = please / translated by now
Job 4:7: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by I pray thee
Job 5:1: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by now
Job 6:29: Eliphaz speaks = please / translated by I pray you
Job 8:8: Bildad speaks = please / translated by I pray thee
Job 10:9: Job speaks = please / translated by I beseech thee
Job 12:7: same = please / translated by now
Job 13:6: same = please / translated by now
Job 13:18: same = please / translated by now
Job 17:3: same = please / translated by now
Job 17:10: same = please / translated by now
Job 22:21-22: Eliphaz speaks = please and please / translated by now and I pray thee
Job 32:21: Elihu speaks = please / translated by I pray you
Job 33:1-2: same = please and please / translated by I pray thee and now
Job 38:3: God speaks to Job = please / translated by now
Job 40:7: same = please / translated by now
Job 40:15-16: same = please and please / translated by now and now
Job 42:4: Job speaks to God = please / translated by I beseech thee
We may think about the differences of meanings in Old Hebrew and modern Hebrew, Old Greek and Modern Greek and it is the same with all languages: They are alive so they evolve. Now the translator has a big responsibility of how he translates because when you can’t get the original you may be lost if you get a translated word which can be diluted or lost its original meaning. That’s why it’s always interesting to go back to the original and see what the dictionaries say precisely. That’s the same when you look at “na’”: when you think of all the possible translations, you may be lost, but when you think of the general meaning it’s clearer (a primitive particle of incitement and entreaty). If you just keep in mind the translation of a Bible version, you will miss the point. It’s also a good way to get information about the translator’s dedication or commitment. It also shows how we should be careful when we defend an idea without checking the general meaning.
- 26 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I am very sorry, but I don't quite think I understand (my issue, not yours.) Would you be suggesting that God appreciated Job because of his forthright and incessant complaining? It seems (to me) that Job had a change of attitude after God said, "Brace yourself like a man." It was only after this that Job began to realize his errors, which the Lord so duly pointed out.
One thing that I didn't mention is that I really liked what his three friends had to say to him. Yet they were at fault? I thought that their mindsets and attitudes were incredible! It seems (to me) that their frame of thinking was spot on. Therefore, it wasn't the words of Job that inspire me, but the words of his three friends.
I just don't know anymore. I'm beaten down and tired . . . and really set back (if not discouraged) over my recent realizations of how I have not understood Scripture as I thought I did. At this point in my life, I'm sick of myself and my ideas and would just rather listen to all of you. So, I will be posting more threads so that, with the help of many of you here, I can get myself together. I am so tired. »
Try to think about how God thinks ! Forget the human level even if it’s not easy ! Why do you think God says there is no one like Job on earth when Job was alive and he lived a lot more ! Why did he condemn his accusers and put them in Job’s hands ! Why did he reward him to such an extent ! Think of the part he had in such a non-human issue, not knowing what was on ?
- 27 Peldom10 :
« Job is one of my favorite books of the Bible with many, many messages.
Good summary but, absent of very important key points;
Through out Job's tribulations you will notice God preceded His authority for satan to attack job with this limitation...."you will spare His (Job's) life".
Either God wanted Job to show the community of His (Job's) depth of faith ( see Gens. 22; 12) or level of commitment to God.
I conclude the former since God knows our convictions...(as well as faith) if He (God) wishes to know them...rather than having them demonstrated.
God said Job was a perfect servant. (Notice He did not say Job was perfect).
We are reminded that God replaced Job's wealth (2 x's over) and the 7 sons and 3 daughters He lost),See Job 42;10, 12-14
We must remember Christ said...if you follow me you may have to pay a price. This is an example that God will use His servants in many, many different ways. Praise God.
Job, a book with many messages which is needed to be understood by all Christ followers and witnesses. »
- 28 :
Well it’s a personal choice. I want to show the book of Job to help people question their relationship with God. There is a lot to learn for Christians in the Old Testament when we study the relationship between God’s men and God. They are simple human beings but they could develop a good relationship with God. To get such a relationship is a hard work! God knows Job but Satan was questioning his integrity towards God meaning every human being he is also questioning the integrity of all believers. And once again there were not only God and Satan but also angels.
« Job is one of my favorite books of the Bible with many, many messages.
Good summary but, absent of very important key points;
Through out Job's tribulations you will notice God preceded His authority for satan to attack job with this limitation...."you will spare His (Job's) life".
Either God wanted Job to show the community of His (Job's) depth of faith ( see Gens. 22; 12) or level of commitment to God.
I conclude the former since God knows our convictions...(as well as faith) if He (God) wishes to know them...rather than having them demonstrated.
God said Job was a perfect servant. (Notice He did not say Job was perfect).
We are reminded that God replaced Job's wealth (2 x's over) and the 7 sons and 3 daughters He lost),See Job 42;10, 12-14
We must remember Christ said...if you follow me you may have to pay a price. This is an example that God will use His servants in many, many different ways. Praise God.
Job, a book with many messages which is needed to be understood by all Christ followers and witnesses. »
- 28 :
Well it’s a personal choice. I want to show the book of Job to help people question their relationship with God. There is a lot to learn for Christians in the Old Testament when we study the relationship between God’s men and God. They are simple human beings but they could develop a good relationship with God. To get such a relationship is a hard work! God knows Job but Satan was questioning his integrity towards God meaning every human being he is also questioning the integrity of all believers. And once again there were not only God and Satan but also angels.
- 29 :
Once again using biblestudytools.com
Bible Dictionaries - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Friend, Friendship
Friend, Friendship
Most of the Old Testament words translated "friend, " "friendship, " or "be friendly" come from two Hebrew roots, rh and hb. The most common terms for friend are reeh, [h,[er] "friend, " and oheb, [b;hoa] a participial form meaning "one who loves." In the New Testament several words appear, including philos [fivlo"], "friend, " hetairos [eJtai'ro"], "companion, comrade, " and plesion [plhsivon], "neighbor, " along with a variety of kinship terms such as "brother, " "mother, " or "child, " extended to refer to people outside one's family for whom one feels special affection. The terms used most include philos [fivlo"], "friend, " and adelphos [ajdelfov"] / adelphe [ajdelfhv], "brother/sister, " the last of which becomes a technical term for a fellow believer.
In both Testaments the ideas of friend and friendship involve three components: association, loyalty, and affection. There are also three levels of meaning: friendship as association only; friendship as association plus loyalty; and friendship as association plus loyalty plus affection.
At the lowest level a friend is simply an associate or "the other fellow" ( Judges 7:13 ; Rom 15:2 ; James 4:12 ). In Jesus' parables the vineyard owner addresses a laborer ( Matt 20:13 ) and the host speaks to a wedding guest he does not know ( Matt 22:12 ) using the term "comrade." Jesus addresses Judas in this way in the garden: "Friend, do what you came for" ( Matt 26:50 ).
At a higher and theologically more interesting level the idea of friendship contains not only the component of association but also that of loyalty. The "king's friend" ( 2 Sam 15:37 ; 16:16 ; 1 Kings 4:5 ; 1 Chron 27:33 ) serves as a royal advisor or, in the Maccabean period, as a member of a favored class of nobles (1 Macc 2:18; 3:38; 6:10; 10:65). Hiram of Tyre's "friendship" with David ( 1 Kings 5:1 ) is actually a political alliance that may have little to do with affection but everything to do with treaty obligations. The "friend who sticks closer than a brother" ( Prov 18:24 ) shows loyalty. When the Jews accuse Pilate of not being "a friend of Caesar" ( John 19:12 ), they are questioning his loyalty to the emperor.
The highest level of friendship contains the components of association and loyalty along with affection. The friendship of David and Jonathan ( 1 Sam 18:1-4 ; 20:14-17 ) has all three components, as does the friendship between Paul and the Philippian church (see, e.g., Philippians 4:1 Philippians 4:15-20 ).
According to Scripture there are three possible objects of friendship: another person, God or his Son, or someone else who follows Jesus.
The first involves human friendship based simply on common humanity with all the joys and dangers associated with it. Human friendship brings help in time of trouble ( Prov 17:17 ; 27:10 ; Luke 11:5-8 ) and advice in perplexing situations ( Prov 27:9 ). A friend may provide consolation in trouble, as when Barzillai the Gileadite consoles the hunted David ( 2 Sam 19:31-39 ), or when the friends of Jephthah's daughter help her mourn her early death ( Judges 11:37-38 ). A friend may offer help at the risk of death, as Hushai the Arkite does when he spies for David in the court of Absalom the usurper ( 2 Sam 15:32-37 ; 16:16-19 ; 17:5-16 ). A friend may rebuke in love, proving more faithful than a flatterer ( Prov 27:6 ). Ecclesiastes develops the theme of friendship in the "two are better than one" passage ( 4:9-12 ).
One of the greatest biblical examples of the "friend who sticks closer than a brother" is the relationship between David and Jonathan. Jonathan's loyalty to David runs deeper than his loyalty to his father Saul or his own ambitions ( 1 Sam 18:1-4 ; 20:14-17 ). The dirge David sings when he hears of Jonathan's death marks their relationship as a high point of human friendship ( 2 Sam 1:17-27 ). Ruth's stubborn loyalty to her mother-in-law Naomi stands as another display of human friendship at its highest.
In the New Testament Paul shows a talent for gaining friends. In his letters he names many people as his special friends in Christ. In the Book of Acts Paul's friends include even the pagan officials of Asia known as Asiarchs ( Acts 19:31 ).
While friendship on the human level has its joys and consolations, it also has its dangers. Sometimes a friend can fail to dissuade one from an evil action, as Judah's friend Hirah the Adullamite does when he helps Judah make arrangements with a supposed prostitute ( Gen 38:12-23 ). A friend can lead one into sin, as when Jonadab son of Shimeah persuades his cousin Amnon to rape his half sister Tamar ( 2 Sam 13:1-6 ). A friend can even lead one to worship other gods ( Deut 13:6-11 ). Proverbs contains warnings about the dangers of bad company ( 1:10-19 ; 4:14-19 ).
Even if a friend does not lead one astray, the friend may cause grief through misunderstanding. Job's three comforters, although they try to be his friends, only make his suffering worse (2:11-13; 6:14-27; 19:21-22; 42:7-9).
Once again using biblestudytools.com
Bible Dictionaries - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Friend, Friendship
Friend, Friendship
Most of the Old Testament words translated "friend, " "friendship, " or "be friendly" come from two Hebrew roots, rh and hb. The most common terms for friend are reeh, [h,[er] "friend, " and oheb, [b;hoa] a participial form meaning "one who loves." In the New Testament several words appear, including philos [fivlo"], "friend, " hetairos [eJtai'ro"], "companion, comrade, " and plesion [plhsivon], "neighbor, " along with a variety of kinship terms such as "brother, " "mother, " or "child, " extended to refer to people outside one's family for whom one feels special affection. The terms used most include philos [fivlo"], "friend, " and adelphos [ajdelfov"] / adelphe [ajdelfhv], "brother/sister, " the last of which becomes a technical term for a fellow believer.
In both Testaments the ideas of friend and friendship involve three components: association, loyalty, and affection. There are also three levels of meaning: friendship as association only; friendship as association plus loyalty; and friendship as association plus loyalty plus affection.
At the lowest level a friend is simply an associate or "the other fellow" ( Judges 7:13 ; Rom 15:2 ; James 4:12 ). In Jesus' parables the vineyard owner addresses a laborer ( Matt 20:13 ) and the host speaks to a wedding guest he does not know ( Matt 22:12 ) using the term "comrade." Jesus addresses Judas in this way in the garden: "Friend, do what you came for" ( Matt 26:50 ).
At a higher and theologically more interesting level the idea of friendship contains not only the component of association but also that of loyalty. The "king's friend" ( 2 Sam 15:37 ; 16:16 ; 1 Kings 4:5 ; 1 Chron 27:33 ) serves as a royal advisor or, in the Maccabean period, as a member of a favored class of nobles (1 Macc 2:18; 3:38; 6:10; 10:65). Hiram of Tyre's "friendship" with David ( 1 Kings 5:1 ) is actually a political alliance that may have little to do with affection but everything to do with treaty obligations. The "friend who sticks closer than a brother" ( Prov 18:24 ) shows loyalty. When the Jews accuse Pilate of not being "a friend of Caesar" ( John 19:12 ), they are questioning his loyalty to the emperor.
The highest level of friendship contains the components of association and loyalty along with affection. The friendship of David and Jonathan ( 1 Sam 18:1-4 ; 20:14-17 ) has all three components, as does the friendship between Paul and the Philippian church (see, e.g., Philippians 4:1 Philippians 4:15-20 ).
According to Scripture there are three possible objects of friendship: another person, God or his Son, or someone else who follows Jesus.
The first involves human friendship based simply on common humanity with all the joys and dangers associated with it. Human friendship brings help in time of trouble ( Prov 17:17 ; 27:10 ; Luke 11:5-8 ) and advice in perplexing situations ( Prov 27:9 ). A friend may provide consolation in trouble, as when Barzillai the Gileadite consoles the hunted David ( 2 Sam 19:31-39 ), or when the friends of Jephthah's daughter help her mourn her early death ( Judges 11:37-38 ). A friend may offer help at the risk of death, as Hushai the Arkite does when he spies for David in the court of Absalom the usurper ( 2 Sam 15:32-37 ; 16:16-19 ; 17:5-16 ). A friend may rebuke in love, proving more faithful than a flatterer ( Prov 27:6 ). Ecclesiastes develops the theme of friendship in the "two are better than one" passage ( 4:9-12 ).
One of the greatest biblical examples of the "friend who sticks closer than a brother" is the relationship between David and Jonathan. Jonathan's loyalty to David runs deeper than his loyalty to his father Saul or his own ambitions ( 1 Sam 18:1-4 ; 20:14-17 ). The dirge David sings when he hears of Jonathan's death marks their relationship as a high point of human friendship ( 2 Sam 1:17-27 ). Ruth's stubborn loyalty to her mother-in-law Naomi stands as another display of human friendship at its highest.
In the New Testament Paul shows a talent for gaining friends. In his letters he names many people as his special friends in Christ. In the Book of Acts Paul's friends include even the pagan officials of Asia known as Asiarchs ( Acts 19:31 ).
While friendship on the human level has its joys and consolations, it also has its dangers. Sometimes a friend can fail to dissuade one from an evil action, as Judah's friend Hirah the Adullamite does when he helps Judah make arrangements with a supposed prostitute ( Gen 38:12-23 ). A friend can lead one into sin, as when Jonadab son of Shimeah persuades his cousin Amnon to rape his half sister Tamar ( 2 Sam 13:1-6 ). A friend can even lead one to worship other gods ( Deut 13:6-11 ). Proverbs contains warnings about the dangers of bad company ( 1:10-19 ; 4:14-19 ).
Even if a friend does not lead one astray, the friend may cause grief through misunderstanding. Job's three comforters, although they try to be his friends, only make his suffering worse (2:11-13; 6:14-27; 19:21-22; 42:7-9).
Friends may prove false, pretending affection and loyalty from ulterior motives ( Psalm 55:12-14 ; Prov 14:20 ; Proverbs 19:4 Proverbs 19:6-7 ). A friend may put one into debt by asking security for a loan ( Prov 6:1-5 ; 11:15 ; 17:18 ; 22:26-27 ). Friendship can break down through gossip ( Prov 16:28 ) or holding grudges ( Prov 17:9 ). Friends may abandon one in trouble ( Psalm 38:11 ; cf. Eccl 9:10 ). The disappearance of true loyalty to friends is one of the symptoms of social and moral breakdown addressed by the prophet Micah in eighth-century Judah ( Mic 7:5-6 ).
As one can be a friend to another person, so one can be a friend of God or of God's Son. Abraham gains the title "friend of God" by his faith and obedience ( 2 Chron 20:7 ; Isa 41:8 ; James 2:23 ). Those who keep God's covenant are called his friends ( Psalm 25:14 ). By contrast, one can be a friend of the world, which excludes the possibility of friendship with God ( James 4:4 ; 1 John 2:15 ).
Many show they are friends of God by becoming friends of Jesus. His open acceptance during his ministry of all kinds of people displays not simply a tendency toward human friendship but portrays the possibility of divine-human loyalty and affection. The "disciple Jesus loved" ( John 19:26 ; 20:2 ; 21:7 ) enjoys more than a human relationship with Jesus. Their friendship is more spiritual than social, as no doubt Jesus' friendship with Lazarus was ( John 11:3 John 11:5 John 11:36 ). Jesus shows this kind of divine-human friendship by addressing his disciples as friends ( Luke 12:4 ), by letting them know the inner meaning of his life and ministry ( John 15:15 ), and, most clearly, by dying on the cross as the sacrifice for sin ( John 15:13 ). When Jesus tells his disciples, "You are my friends if you do what I command" ( John 15:14 ), the components of association, loyalty, and affection all appear.
If one can be a friend of God or of God's Son, this friendship can extend as well to others who are also friends of God. Christian friendship finds its basis in the friendship between each believer and God. When John refers to fellow believers simply as "the friends" ( 3 John 15 ), he implies the loyalty and affection for one another that spring from loyalty and love for God. Seven times in 1 John the writer addresses his readers as "dear children, " using the language of family to express this deep affection ( 1 John 2:1 1 John 2:12 1 John 2:28 ; 1 John 3:7 1 John 3:18 ; 4:4 ; 5:21 ).
Paul expresses this loyal and affectionate relationship when he refers to or addresses several individuals with the language of family love. He speaks to Timothy and Titus as his true children ( 1 Tim 1:2 ; Titus 1:4 ), and to Timothy as his "dear son" ( 2 Tim 1:2 ). Onesimus is not only Paul's "son" but his "very heart" (Philem. 10, 12). An unnamed woman in the Roman church is mother literally to a Christian named Rufus and figuratively to Paul ( Rom 16:13 ).
The New Testament shows a certain "in-group" mentality by making a distinction between members of the household of faith and outsiders ( Gal 6:10 ). But the writers never press this distinction, and they often make the point that Christian friendship should not appear only within Christian circles. While Paul, for example, encourages special concern for believers, he does so in connection with encouragement to "do good to all" ( Gal 6:10 ). Jesus encourages his followers to invite needy strangers, not friends, to their tables ( Luke 14:12-14 ), and in the parable of the Good Samaritan he extends the concept of neighbor to include anyone in need ( Luke 10:25-37 ).
As one can be a friend to another person, so one can be a friend of God or of God's Son. Abraham gains the title "friend of God" by his faith and obedience ( 2 Chron 20:7 ; Isa 41:8 ; James 2:23 ). Those who keep God's covenant are called his friends ( Psalm 25:14 ). By contrast, one can be a friend of the world, which excludes the possibility of friendship with God ( James 4:4 ; 1 John 2:15 ).
Many show they are friends of God by becoming friends of Jesus. His open acceptance during his ministry of all kinds of people displays not simply a tendency toward human friendship but portrays the possibility of divine-human loyalty and affection. The "disciple Jesus loved" ( John 19:26 ; 20:2 ; 21:7 ) enjoys more than a human relationship with Jesus. Their friendship is more spiritual than social, as no doubt Jesus' friendship with Lazarus was ( John 11:3 John 11:5 John 11:36 ). Jesus shows this kind of divine-human friendship by addressing his disciples as friends ( Luke 12:4 ), by letting them know the inner meaning of his life and ministry ( John 15:15 ), and, most clearly, by dying on the cross as the sacrifice for sin ( John 15:13 ). When Jesus tells his disciples, "You are my friends if you do what I command" ( John 15:14 ), the components of association, loyalty, and affection all appear.
If one can be a friend of God or of God's Son, this friendship can extend as well to others who are also friends of God. Christian friendship finds its basis in the friendship between each believer and God. When John refers to fellow believers simply as "the friends" ( 3 John 15 ), he implies the loyalty and affection for one another that spring from loyalty and love for God. Seven times in 1 John the writer addresses his readers as "dear children, " using the language of family to express this deep affection ( 1 John 2:1 1 John 2:12 1 John 2:28 ; 1 John 3:7 1 John 3:18 ; 4:4 ; 5:21 ).
Paul expresses this loyal and affectionate relationship when he refers to or addresses several individuals with the language of family love. He speaks to Timothy and Titus as his true children ( 1 Tim 1:2 ; Titus 1:4 ), and to Timothy as his "dear son" ( 2 Tim 1:2 ). Onesimus is not only Paul's "son" but his "very heart" (Philem. 10, 12). An unnamed woman in the Roman church is mother literally to a Christian named Rufus and figuratively to Paul ( Rom 16:13 ).
The New Testament shows a certain "in-group" mentality by making a distinction between members of the household of faith and outsiders ( Gal 6:10 ). But the writers never press this distinction, and they often make the point that Christian friendship should not appear only within Christian circles. While Paul, for example, encourages special concern for believers, he does so in connection with encouragement to "do good to all" ( Gal 6:10 ). Jesus encourages his followers to invite needy strangers, not friends, to their tables ( Luke 14:12-14 ), and in the parable of the Good Samaritan he extends the concept of neighbor to include anyone in need ( Luke 10:25-37 ).
Carl B. Bridges, Jr.
Bibliography. D. A. Carson, NIDNTT, 1:259-60; U. Falkenroth, NIDNTT, 1:258-59; W. Gü ther, NIDNTT, 1:254-58; G. A. Lee, ISBE, 2:361-62; C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves; N. J. Opperwall and G. A. Lee, ISBE, 2:363.
Bibliography. D. A. Carson, NIDNTT, 1:259-60; U. Falkenroth, NIDNTT, 1:258-59; W. Gü ther, NIDNTT, 1:254-58; G. A. Lee, ISBE, 2:361-62; C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves; N. J. Opperwall and G. A. Lee, ISBE, 2:363.
Three levels of friendsip: friendship as association only; friendship as association plus loyalty; and friendship as association plus loyalty plus affection.
Think of all the Greek words meaning a category of love.
We need a lot of wisdom and humility to study the Bible. We also need to be careful when we use a word: there are two many levels for our modern languages! Really easy to get lost.
In the Interlinear translation, the translator uses associate before translating by the English word friend, associate meaning the lowest level of friendship.
That’s why I don’t like to use the general English word friend for the three Hebrews.
I understand what you think about the three Hebrews, it's good if you think so. They try to say what they think is right. But personally, they seem like babies to me compared to Job. Remember he expresses himself because he doesn’t understand what happens to him and he knows he has done nothing wrong. If they had been real friends, they would have tried to encourage him, not discourage him. They just say he is guilty but he is not.
- 30 2ndTimothygroup :
« I'd have to re-read the book again. But in my mind, they were absolutely trying to encourage him (to Transform his thinking). »
And they were condemned by God and put into Job’s hands : human level and God’s level !
- 31 :
I don’t know if they really wanted to encourage him because I think that when you try to encourage someone, it’s to help him feel better. When this person feels worse, it’s a strange way to encourage people, isn’t it? Or maybe you don’t find the right words? Or maybe sometimes you don’t need to speak? There are many ways to help people? Remember the parable of the good Samaritan? Or the woman putting oil on Jesus’ feet? Maybe they could have done him food and wash his body and heal his wounds, couldn’t they? And then he would have been more receptive, wouldn’t he? But then there is a difference between associates and real friends!
- 32 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I see what you're saying. Example:
Job said:
Job 14:7 NLT - "Even a tree has more hope! If it is cut down, it will sprout again and grow new branches."
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
I suppose that it is fair to say that Job was discouraged by being called a name. However, Eliphaz wasn't the only name-caller in the Bible.
Jesus said:
Matthew 12:34 NKJV - "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
Perhaps it is fair to acknowledge all of our ideas regarding Job. It is sad (for me) to see that Job claims that he has "no hope." To me, after having my incredible Spiritual Experience, I would NEVER say such words. It is impossible! I know that I could be tortured, but I would long for my death knowing, fully, that this is where my hope resides. Why? Because my relationship with God is apparently a bit different from Jobs's relationship with the Lord. (This is not to suggest that I am better than Job . . . I would never claim such a thing.)
Psalm 116:15 NKJV - "Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints."
I would prefer not to suffer in my death, but if I should, I will not curse God. I know that regardless of how I die, the Peace and Love found in Heaven is such an incredible reward that none of us will care about how we died in this physical world. I assure all of us that when we enter the gates of Heaven, the way we died and the pain that we might suffer will be totally and utterly inconsequential. Trust me on this, for this, I know as well as I know my own reflection. »
Remember there was no one like him on earth at his time according to God (human level and God’s level!)
- 33 :
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
“Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind? (according to the interlinear translation)
That’s a really good example. How is it possible for Eliphaz to speak like that whereas in the beginning of chapter 4 he recognizes that Job helped a lot of people through his advice. He was really short-minded (Someone who's small-minded has a narrow perspective or very firm, unchangeable opinions on things. ... If you're small-minded, you have a biased view of the world, and you're probably not very tolerant of those with different opinions or experiences according to the dictionary).
- 34 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I hear you. In no way is the following meant to brag, but I've been writing a personal commentary on the Bible, but in a very distinct way that mostly revolves around Colossians 2:9-15, the Circumcision of Christ. From the book of Job, I pull out vastly different ideas and concepts, such as the following notes (or, "personal commentary).
Job 17:4 NLT - "You have closed their minds to understanding, but do not let them triumph." - Although this is Job likely talking about his three friends that don't seem to be soothing or comforting him, this is a glimpse of the Jews and their hardened hearts. Or, this is referring to all of humanity and their Indwelling Curse of Adam and Eve.
Or, I point out other passages such as:
Job 36:31 - Tanakh: "By these things He controls peoples; He gives food in abundance." - The NLT translation uses the word "nourishes" and the footnotes include the possibility of "governs" whereas the Tanakh uses the word "controls."
As in verse 31 above, I am also fascinated by how the Lord controls people . . .
including our actions and thoughts. I think that there are some incredibly heavy concepts and ideas that we should be more considering of than others.
The Lord Takes Responsibility
Job 42:2 CSB - "I know that you can do anything and no plan of yours can be thwarted." - God is in control of all things and it really doesn't become more clear than what Job said above. »
- 35 JTB :
« So, God's worst enemy in the universe walks up to Him and says "hey God I want to screw with one of your kids" and God tells him "have at it".
I just can't imagine any earthly parent who loves their children allowing their worst enemy to harm their kids.
Why does God get a pass on that? »
Once again , there is a difference between human and God’s level ! It’s about a non-human issue between God and Satan !
- 36 Bob-Carabbio :
« Job had TWO personal problems: "Behemoth" (a tendency to rely on HIS OWN personal Strength/Wisdom, and "Leviathan" (Personal PRIDE).
The book illustrates HOW FAR God is willing to go to get us to REALIZE our spiritual problems, and repent of them (As Job did Job 42:6). And it gives insight into how God will USE satan surgically to accomplish His goals.
Job, of course, WAS NOT a "Born AGain believer" - NOBODY WAS then. He did, however have FAITH. »
He had no personal problem, he was involved in a non-human issue between God and Satan and he knew that everything happening to him was abnormal, well-organized and he was complaining and asking God for help ! He had a special relationship with God and suddenly everything was upside down !
- 37 :
Apparently he was doing a good job because according to God there was no one like him on Earth.
- 38 2ndTimothyGroup :
(As an answer to JTB)
That's a great and legitimate question. My extremely short answer would be this: The Book of Job is a demonstration of Power, and not that of Satan, but that of God. The Lord, in His incredible Power, is able to control all events, including the restoration of Job and his belongings. This is the number one lesson to be gained from Job. From that point downward, that could be any number of explanations.
As said, this is the short explanation, but it is what I have to offer at this point.
- 39 walknlight :
(Answering peldom10 about ".....a perfect servant"....said God of Job.)
« tn The word תָּם (tam) has been translated “perfect” (so KJV, ASV). The verbal root תָּמַם (tamam) means “to be blameless, complete.” The word is found in Gen 25:27 where it describes Jacob as “even-tempered.” It also occurs in Psa 64:5 (64:4 ET) and Pro 29:10. The meaning is that a person or a thing is complete, perfect, flawless. It does not mean that he was sinless, but that he was wholeheartedly trying to please God, that he had integrity and was blameless before God.
God Bless! »
Think of all the Greek words meaning a category of love.
We need a lot of wisdom and humility to study the Bible. We also need to be careful when we use a word: there are two many levels for our modern languages! Really easy to get lost.
In the Interlinear translation, the translator uses associate before translating by the English word friend, associate meaning the lowest level of friendship.
That’s why I don’t like to use the general English word friend for the three Hebrews.
I understand what you think about the three Hebrews, it's good if you think so. They try to say what they think is right. But personally, they seem like babies to me compared to Job. Remember he expresses himself because he doesn’t understand what happens to him and he knows he has done nothing wrong. If they had been real friends, they would have tried to encourage him, not discourage him. They just say he is guilty but he is not.
- 30 2ndTimothygroup :
« I'd have to re-read the book again. But in my mind, they were absolutely trying to encourage him (to Transform his thinking). »
And they were condemned by God and put into Job’s hands : human level and God’s level !
- 31 :
I don’t know if they really wanted to encourage him because I think that when you try to encourage someone, it’s to help him feel better. When this person feels worse, it’s a strange way to encourage people, isn’t it? Or maybe you don’t find the right words? Or maybe sometimes you don’t need to speak? There are many ways to help people? Remember the parable of the good Samaritan? Or the woman putting oil on Jesus’ feet? Maybe they could have done him food and wash his body and heal his wounds, couldn’t they? And then he would have been more receptive, wouldn’t he? But then there is a difference between associates and real friends!
- 32 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I see what you're saying. Example:
Job said:
Job 14:7 NLT - "Even a tree has more hope! If it is cut down, it will sprout again and grow new branches."
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
I suppose that it is fair to say that Job was discouraged by being called a name. However, Eliphaz wasn't the only name-caller in the Bible.
Jesus said:
Matthew 12:34 NKJV - "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
Perhaps it is fair to acknowledge all of our ideas regarding Job. It is sad (for me) to see that Job claims that he has "no hope." To me, after having my incredible Spiritual Experience, I would NEVER say such words. It is impossible! I know that I could be tortured, but I would long for my death knowing, fully, that this is where my hope resides. Why? Because my relationship with God is apparently a bit different from Jobs's relationship with the Lord. (This is not to suggest that I am better than Job . . . I would never claim such a thing.)
Psalm 116:15 NKJV - "Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints."
I would prefer not to suffer in my death, but if I should, I will not curse God. I know that regardless of how I die, the Peace and Love found in Heaven is such an incredible reward that none of us will care about how we died in this physical world. I assure all of us that when we enter the gates of Heaven, the way we died and the pain that we might suffer will be totally and utterly inconsequential. Trust me on this, for this, I know as well as I know my own reflection. »
Remember there was no one like him on earth at his time according to God (human level and God’s level!)
- 33 :
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
“Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind? (according to the interlinear translation)
That’s a really good example. How is it possible for Eliphaz to speak like that whereas in the beginning of chapter 4 he recognizes that Job helped a lot of people through his advice. He was really short-minded (Someone who's small-minded has a narrow perspective or very firm, unchangeable opinions on things. ... If you're small-minded, you have a biased view of the world, and you're probably not very tolerant of those with different opinions or experiences according to the dictionary).
- 34 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I hear you. In no way is the following meant to brag, but I've been writing a personal commentary on the Bible, but in a very distinct way that mostly revolves around Colossians 2:9-15, the Circumcision of Christ. From the book of Job, I pull out vastly different ideas and concepts, such as the following notes (or, "personal commentary).
Job 17:4 NLT - "You have closed their minds to understanding, but do not let them triumph." - Although this is Job likely talking about his three friends that don't seem to be soothing or comforting him, this is a glimpse of the Jews and their hardened hearts. Or, this is referring to all of humanity and their Indwelling Curse of Adam and Eve.
Or, I point out other passages such as:
Job 36:31 - Tanakh: "By these things He controls peoples; He gives food in abundance." - The NLT translation uses the word "nourishes" and the footnotes include the possibility of "governs" whereas the Tanakh uses the word "controls."
As in verse 31 above, I am also fascinated by how the Lord controls people . . .
including our actions and thoughts. I think that there are some incredibly heavy concepts and ideas that we should be more considering of than others.
The Lord Takes Responsibility
Job 42:2 CSB - "I know that you can do anything and no plan of yours can be thwarted." - God is in control of all things and it really doesn't become more clear than what Job said above. »
- 35 JTB :
« So, God's worst enemy in the universe walks up to Him and says "hey God I want to screw with one of your kids" and God tells him "have at it".
I just can't imagine any earthly parent who loves their children allowing their worst enemy to harm their kids.
Why does God get a pass on that? »
Once again , there is a difference between human and God’s level ! It’s about a non-human issue between God and Satan !
- 36 Bob-Carabbio :
« Job had TWO personal problems: "Behemoth" (a tendency to rely on HIS OWN personal Strength/Wisdom, and "Leviathan" (Personal PRIDE).
The book illustrates HOW FAR God is willing to go to get us to REALIZE our spiritual problems, and repent of them (As Job did Job 42:6). And it gives insight into how God will USE satan surgically to accomplish His goals.
Job, of course, WAS NOT a "Born AGain believer" - NOBODY WAS then. He did, however have FAITH. »
He had no personal problem, he was involved in a non-human issue between God and Satan and he knew that everything happening to him was abnormal, well-organized and he was complaining and asking God for help ! He had a special relationship with God and suddenly everything was upside down !
- 37 :
Apparently he was doing a good job because according to God there was no one like him on Earth.
- 38 2ndTimothyGroup :
(As an answer to JTB)
That's a great and legitimate question. My extremely short answer would be this: The Book of Job is a demonstration of Power, and not that of Satan, but that of God. The Lord, in His incredible Power, is able to control all events, including the restoration of Job and his belongings. This is the number one lesson to be gained from Job. From that point downward, that could be any number of explanations.
As said, this is the short explanation, but it is what I have to offer at this point.
- 39 walknlight :
(Answering peldom10 about ".....a perfect servant"....said God of Job.)
« tn The word תָּם (tam) has been translated “perfect” (so KJV, ASV). The verbal root תָּמַם (tamam) means “to be blameless, complete.” The word is found in Gen 25:27 where it describes Jacob as “even-tempered.” It also occurs in Psa 64:5 (64:4 ET) and Pro 29:10. The meaning is that a person or a thing is complete, perfect, flawless. It does not mean that he was sinless, but that he was wholeheartedly trying to please God, that he had integrity and was blameless before God.
God Bless! »
- 40 peldom10 :
(answering 2ndTimothyGroup : And . . . it would be difficult to make the conclusive decision that John was, in fact, "greater." However, there is a reason for why I believe that John [might] be greater (if it is possible, for Purity is Purity), and it has to do with the Baptism of John. His baptism "prepared the way," hence, those who received his particular baptism were enabled to believe, while those who did not remained in unbelief. That's pretty incredible.)
« I was not arguing the point I was exploring....to learn...because you seemed the point for John was important and I just wondered your reasoning.
Job probably was baptized...just not mentioned since God said He was a perfect servant. I don't think God would have issued that accolade had Job not been properly repented. »
(answering 2ndTimothyGroup : Thank you for the clarification . . . that is much different.
And . . . it would be difficult to make the conclusive decision that John was, in fact, "greater." However, there is a reason for why I believe that John [might] be greater (if it is possible, for Purity is Purity), and it has to do with the Baptism of John. His baptism "prepared the way," hence, those who received his particular baptism were enabled to believe, while those who did not remained in unbelief. That's pretty incredible.)
«Your game playing with my posts by partially quoting to infer a different meaning is not allowed under the rules. »
- 41 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I'm very sorry. I am not here to play games, or argue about anything. If you feel that I am playing games, please accept my apology. I don't want anyone to stumble because of me. I do my best to show myself as someone with a gentle heart and attitude. I am no better than anyone. I am nothing compared to our Lord. »
- 42 peldom10 :
« NP ......please quote all of the post not partials.
Thanks »
- 43 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I'm sorry, but I hit "reply" to all that I saw. I didn't choose just one part. This is why I was pleased when you quoted all that you had wrote. I thought that when you did that, you were adding the rest of what you intended to post.
My friend, I would never lash out and do something to intentionally harm you in such a way. You, and what you write, is incredibly important. I would never intend to misrepresent you. Please forgive me for this problem. »
- 44 JTB :
« How do you think Job's children felt about what happened? »
- 45 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Which children? His initial children were killed by verse 19 of chapter one. Or, are you referring to those who came after Job lost all things?
I should remind you that I have no way of knowing what anyone thinks, however, I can speculate based upon general terms. »
(answering 2ndTimothyGroup : And . . . it would be difficult to make the conclusive decision that John was, in fact, "greater." However, there is a reason for why I believe that John [might] be greater (if it is possible, for Purity is Purity), and it has to do with the Baptism of John. His baptism "prepared the way," hence, those who received his particular baptism were enabled to believe, while those who did not remained in unbelief. That's pretty incredible.)
« I was not arguing the point I was exploring....to learn...because you seemed the point for John was important and I just wondered your reasoning.
Job probably was baptized...just not mentioned since God said He was a perfect servant. I don't think God would have issued that accolade had Job not been properly repented. »
(answering 2ndTimothyGroup : Thank you for the clarification . . . that is much different.
And . . . it would be difficult to make the conclusive decision that John was, in fact, "greater." However, there is a reason for why I believe that John [might] be greater (if it is possible, for Purity is Purity), and it has to do with the Baptism of John. His baptism "prepared the way," hence, those who received his particular baptism were enabled to believe, while those who did not remained in unbelief. That's pretty incredible.)
«Your game playing with my posts by partially quoting to infer a different meaning is not allowed under the rules. »
- 41 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I'm very sorry. I am not here to play games, or argue about anything. If you feel that I am playing games, please accept my apology. I don't want anyone to stumble because of me. I do my best to show myself as someone with a gentle heart and attitude. I am no better than anyone. I am nothing compared to our Lord. »
- 42 peldom10 :
« NP ......please quote all of the post not partials.
Thanks »
- 43 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I'm sorry, but I hit "reply" to all that I saw. I didn't choose just one part. This is why I was pleased when you quoted all that you had wrote. I thought that when you did that, you were adding the rest of what you intended to post.
My friend, I would never lash out and do something to intentionally harm you in such a way. You, and what you write, is incredibly important. I would never intend to misrepresent you. Please forgive me for this problem. »
- 44 JTB :
« How do you think Job's children felt about what happened? »
- 45 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Which children? His initial children were killed by verse 19 of chapter one. Or, are you referring to those who came after Job lost all things?
I should remind you that I have no way of knowing what anyone thinks, however, I can speculate based upon general terms. »
- 46 2ndTimothygroup :
« Our studies regarding Job have been incredibly helpful for me. I cannot thank all of you enough for your contributions and for allowing me to express my thoughts and opinions.
I was on my way to court today, fearing terribly what the outcome might be . . . and how that outcome will impact my future. Facing remarkable and outlandish claims, I began to think of Job). Like Job, I realized that no matter what happens in this world, I will be taken care of. What happened to Job is so much more extreme than what will happen to me on this planet; thus, I was encouraged by that. But more, and with my Eternal perspective, I found encouragement in knowing that eventually, all things will be better than before, even if it means waiting for Heaven.
What Peter wrote about in the Scripture below is precisely what happened to Job.
1 Peter 5:10 NLT – “In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation.”
Job was not only restored but received even more than what he had before. And though Job lost his family, in his Eternal perspective, I’m sure that he realized that he would see his children again, those whom for which he offered sacrifices.
I told myself the same things, that though I may never see my elderly father again, the one I love (because of a False Restraining Order applied by the government), I would certainly see him again in Heaven. Therefore, though I have no comfort here on earth, my comfort awaits me in Heaven.
So, my awareness of how we are [not] this body, but that we are only here for a short, temporary time, and though my father is struggling mightily without me, I know that I will see him again. I know it for a fact.
Job didn’t know that he would be restored. He was not given this knowledge, thus the fact that he clung to his faith and refused to curse the Lord though his wife suggested it many times, Job did not do it. And neither will I.
Incredibly, and for the first time in my life, I was inspired by Job . . . and because of this thread, I will never view him the same.
So, thank all of you again for your willingness to share my thoughts and ideas. That chance helped me this morning. Thank you! »
« Our studies regarding Job have been incredibly helpful for me. I cannot thank all of you enough for your contributions and for allowing me to express my thoughts and opinions.
I was on my way to court today, fearing terribly what the outcome might be . . . and how that outcome will impact my future. Facing remarkable and outlandish claims, I began to think of Job). Like Job, I realized that no matter what happens in this world, I will be taken care of. What happened to Job is so much more extreme than what will happen to me on this planet; thus, I was encouraged by that. But more, and with my Eternal perspective, I found encouragement in knowing that eventually, all things will be better than before, even if it means waiting for Heaven.
What Peter wrote about in the Scripture below is precisely what happened to Job.
1 Peter 5:10 NLT – “In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation.”
Job was not only restored but received even more than what he had before. And though Job lost his family, in his Eternal perspective, I’m sure that he realized that he would see his children again, those whom for which he offered sacrifices.
I told myself the same things, that though I may never see my elderly father again, the one I love (because of a False Restraining Order applied by the government), I would certainly see him again in Heaven. Therefore, though I have no comfort here on earth, my comfort awaits me in Heaven.
So, my awareness of how we are [not] this body, but that we are only here for a short, temporary time, and though my father is struggling mightily without me, I know that I will see him again. I know it for a fact.
Job didn’t know that he would be restored. He was not given this knowledge, thus the fact that he clung to his faith and refused to curse the Lord though his wife suggested it many times, Job did not do it. And neither will I.
Incredibly, and for the first time in my life, I was inspired by Job . . . and because of this thread, I will never view him the same.
So, thank all of you again for your willingness to share my thoughts and ideas. That chance helped me this morning. Thank you! »
- 47 Icedaisey :
« It's a matter of maturity I think. Or lack thereof.
I think those who are genuinely in Christ realize there are those who are not when they're participating in forums like this.
There's someone who frequents as many boards as they can and is like that. They're ignorant, rude, sarcastic, hate filled. Yet, when they encounter someone that doesn't comport with their false exegesis, that person refers to that genuine Christian who is trying to assist their understanding as a , so called Christian.
I think that person should be eternally grateful they're tolerated as much as they are without being banned.
What isn't of concern for that type transparent poser, in my view, is that there are people who visit sites like this to see what being a Christian looks like.
For whatever reason they may not be able to meet with communities of believers off the net.
I think when they happen on hateful, sarcastic, ignorant, rude, hate filled people who pretend to defend the bible just to attack Christians, those people are turned away from the faith. Because after all, what would an example like that do but show them we're no better than the hateful, ignorant, rude, hate filled people in the world they live in?
Seriously. If "you" , impersonal you, have to use sarcasm and condemning accusatory personal attack language to defend "your" understanding of the bible, you prove first and foremost you have none! »
- 48 :
« kind and gentle » : That’s a good way ! Once again we have a good example in the Book of Job, Job’s associates say they want to help Job but Job and God don’t think they do it : on the contrary ! Thus medidating again and again about Job’s case may help us do it the right way and not forget it !
- 49 :
It's easy to get offended when you follow human tradition instead of the Bible! Jesus needed a lot to get offended especially having in mind what the Jews used to do in the temple (making business). But they are not alone! It's quite common for human beings to mix religious matters and business! it's everywhere! But his service to God was a burning fire!
- 50 :
A different approach helps us clarify our own approach! When we think about what people say then we may think differently to our own thoughts!
« It's a matter of maturity I think. Or lack thereof.
I think those who are genuinely in Christ realize there are those who are not when they're participating in forums like this.
There's someone who frequents as many boards as they can and is like that. They're ignorant, rude, sarcastic, hate filled. Yet, when they encounter someone that doesn't comport with their false exegesis, that person refers to that genuine Christian who is trying to assist their understanding as a , so called Christian.
I think that person should be eternally grateful they're tolerated as much as they are without being banned.
What isn't of concern for that type transparent poser, in my view, is that there are people who visit sites like this to see what being a Christian looks like.
For whatever reason they may not be able to meet with communities of believers off the net.
I think when they happen on hateful, sarcastic, ignorant, rude, hate filled people who pretend to defend the bible just to attack Christians, those people are turned away from the faith. Because after all, what would an example like that do but show them we're no better than the hateful, ignorant, rude, hate filled people in the world they live in?
Seriously. If "you" , impersonal you, have to use sarcasm and condemning accusatory personal attack language to defend "your" understanding of the bible, you prove first and foremost you have none! »
- 48 :
« kind and gentle » : That’s a good way ! Once again we have a good example in the Book of Job, Job’s associates say they want to help Job but Job and God don’t think they do it : on the contrary ! Thus medidating again and again about Job’s case may help us do it the right way and not forget it !
- 49 :
It's easy to get offended when you follow human tradition instead of the Bible! Jesus needed a lot to get offended especially having in mind what the Jews used to do in the temple (making business). But they are not alone! It's quite common for human beings to mix religious matters and business! it's everywhere! But his service to God was a burning fire!
- 50 :
A different approach helps us clarify our own approach! When we think about what people say then we may think differently to our own thoughts!
- 51 :
As I said before, chapter one is clear : Job is not blaming God.
Job 1:21 : « Out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither : the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away ; blessed be the name of the LORD. »
Job 1:22 : « In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. »
Here no mistake is possible : Job isn’t blaming God ! And the words employed are extremely strong !
- 52 ewq1938 :
« Yeah at first but he does blame God not too long after. I think it starts in chp 6 or 7. Near end of book God will chastise Job for his foolish rantings and Job will see how he was wrong and repent, then he is back on track like he was in early chapters. »
He is complaining to God and calling him for help ! Once again, he was not wrong, he had a part in a non-human issue, he didn’t know what was on but he knew what happened to him and that it was supernatural ! He recognized what God told him that is God knows more than we do and there are things we don’t know!
- 53 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Hey bro....
This is what amazes me . . . if Job repents, how can Scripture say that Job never sinned? Such a mystery to me. »
No mistery at all ! Think of the difference between human level and God’s level !
- 54 :
You say chastise? How does he do that? I don't understand! And he puts the destiny of his associates in Job's hands! And nothing is said about the fourth associates who comes late! Is that a ghost or a dream?
As I said before, chapter one is clear : Job is not blaming God.
Job 1:21 : « Out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither : the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away ; blessed be the name of the LORD. »
Job 1:22 : « In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. »
Here no mistake is possible : Job isn’t blaming God ! And the words employed are extremely strong !
- 52 ewq1938 :
« Yeah at first but he does blame God not too long after. I think it starts in chp 6 or 7. Near end of book God will chastise Job for his foolish rantings and Job will see how he was wrong and repent, then he is back on track like he was in early chapters. »
He is complaining to God and calling him for help ! Once again, he was not wrong, he had a part in a non-human issue, he didn’t know what was on but he knew what happened to him and that it was supernatural ! He recognized what God told him that is God knows more than we do and there are things we don’t know!
- 53 2ndTimothyGroup :
« Hey bro....
This is what amazes me . . . if Job repents, how can Scripture say that Job never sinned? Such a mystery to me. »
No mistery at all ! Think of the difference between human level and God’s level !
- 54 :
You say chastise? How does he do that? I don't understand! And he puts the destiny of his associates in Job's hands! And nothing is said about the fourth associates who comes late! Is that a ghost or a dream?
- 55 ewq1938 :
« Well, in order to chastise someone you begin chastising them. Start at chp 40 and read through the end. Here are some highlights:
Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Sounds like Job very much had done wrong, and greatly offended God. God challenges Job by asking who he is to reprove God and disannul His judgments! God asks Job if he has the right to condemn God and make himself righteous! Job has severely crossed a line and God really let Job have it! How humbling it would be to have God himself berate you for so long and so passionately!
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. »
Not at all, human level and God’s level !
- 56 NOV25 :
« The story of Job is about a religious man (think Pharisee in the NT) that had not true faith. It’s a story of refining by fire. God in his providence allows satan to sift Job, to bring Job to true faith. In the end Job truly repents upon revelation. “I had heard of thee but now mine eye see”… Read it again, by God’s grace you’ll see it. »
He had true faith but he had part in a non-human issue so he didn’t have all the information ! There was no one like him on earth !
- 57 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I couldn't agree more. In my past, I have done a lot of berating, belittling, chastizing etc, so when I read the Words of God, the feel that I get through the
Lord's Words feels is extremely familiar to me. And more, I also related to the whining and complaining of Job.
"The Patience of Job." - Frankly, I don't get that at all. Where does that phrase come from? And, why? Jesus didn't do any complaining at all as He was being led to slaughter, yet we don't have the phrase, "The Patience of Jesus." »
- 58 :
First of all, think about Job having the patience to listen to his associates, but not only listening to them but also answering them patiently, repeating things but it seems they don't listen or better say they prefer to listen to their own words like empty speeches! Do you think Jesus would have bothered doing the same! he was a teacher teaching people, he had no time to lose! Remember what Jesus said about the religious leaders when he was on Earth! Job didn't understand what was happening to him, Jesus was on a mission on Earth, that's make a big difference! He knew he was there for a short period of time! On the contrary, Job didn't see any opening except death! And we could say more about it!
- 59 :
So why does God speak of Job as his servant and there is no one like him on Earth:
Job 1:8:... "that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth god, and escheweth evil?"
Why does Satan decide to provoke God using Job? Was Job not speacial to God? Does Satan don't mean that if he proves right about Job it will be the same with the rest of humanity? Remember all the angels were there watching! Think about Job offering sacrifices in case his children would sin against God in their heart! According to judaism, the Jews used to make sacrifice for something wrong they had done, not for something they would do in the future!
« Well, in order to chastise someone you begin chastising them. Start at chp 40 and read through the end. Here are some highlights:
Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Sounds like Job very much had done wrong, and greatly offended God. God challenges Job by asking who he is to reprove God and disannul His judgments! God asks Job if he has the right to condemn God and make himself righteous! Job has severely crossed a line and God really let Job have it! How humbling it would be to have God himself berate you for so long and so passionately!
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. »
Not at all, human level and God’s level !
- 56 NOV25 :
« The story of Job is about a religious man (think Pharisee in the NT) that had not true faith. It’s a story of refining by fire. God in his providence allows satan to sift Job, to bring Job to true faith. In the end Job truly repents upon revelation. “I had heard of thee but now mine eye see”… Read it again, by God’s grace you’ll see it. »
He had true faith but he had part in a non-human issue so he didn’t have all the information ! There was no one like him on earth !
- 57 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I couldn't agree more. In my past, I have done a lot of berating, belittling, chastizing etc, so when I read the Words of God, the feel that I get through the
Lord's Words feels is extremely familiar to me. And more, I also related to the whining and complaining of Job.
"The Patience of Job." - Frankly, I don't get that at all. Where does that phrase come from? And, why? Jesus didn't do any complaining at all as He was being led to slaughter, yet we don't have the phrase, "The Patience of Jesus." »
- 58 :
First of all, think about Job having the patience to listen to his associates, but not only listening to them but also answering them patiently, repeating things but it seems they don't listen or better say they prefer to listen to their own words like empty speeches! Do you think Jesus would have bothered doing the same! he was a teacher teaching people, he had no time to lose! Remember what Jesus said about the religious leaders when he was on Earth! Job didn't understand what was happening to him, Jesus was on a mission on Earth, that's make a big difference! He knew he was there for a short period of time! On the contrary, Job didn't see any opening except death! And we could say more about it!
- 59 :
So why does God speak of Job as his servant and there is no one like him on Earth:
Job 1:8:... "that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth god, and escheweth evil?"
Why does Satan decide to provoke God using Job? Was Job not speacial to God? Does Satan don't mean that if he proves right about Job it will be the same with the rest of humanity? Remember all the angels were there watching! Think about Job offering sacrifices in case his children would sin against God in their heart! According to judaism, the Jews used to make sacrifice for something wrong they had done, not for something they would do in the future!
- 60 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I'm sorry, but I find so much of what you say to be confusing, as though I had never heard of such things. Future sin? The NIV says:
Job 1:5 NIV - "When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom."
Future sin? "Perhaps my children HAVE sinned" is what Job said . . . past sin, not future sin.
If anything, I find the book of Job to be more confusing than ever before. Frustrating. »
- 61 :
I mean before it can be revealed or in case of so if they have done it it may be passed but if not it is to come. They were young and when you are young it's easy to do foolish things you repent after! So Job thinks that sooner or later they will do something! That's the difference with normal human beings, they always do after or when it's too late! That's human's history, human beings always wake up when it's too late!
- 62 :
If your parents or people you appreciate died, are they alive in your mind? Can you see them as if they were in front of you? For me the examples of the past, I mean those who had a strong relationship with god, are still alive and I speak of them as if they could have coffee or tea with me and we could speak together! I would listen to them and ask them questions instead of speaking to them! They would have so much to tell! I hope that one day it will possible! But now we only have the Bible to listen to them! That's where is the difference!
Remember you always ask good questions but "na'" don't stop it, keep going!
- 63 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I see. And I was certain that you'd at least apologize to the Lord for completely misquoting Him and His Word.
I think I'm done watching this thread, as we're being led down a path that is not accurate. No need to reply, I won't be returning. »
- 64 :
Strange words but people are free to understand what they want to understand and not by what they don't want! No problem at all!
Human level and God’s level !
- 65 Blade :
« That is not written. So many things being said here that are not written. No where does it say God allowed Satan. Where is it written God is in control of everything? If so then all the bad things that happen are from God... remember He allowed it. Yet here on earth if I don't feed my baby the world knows I am a bad parent. If I blame God for all the bad things.. how can I even trust Him or
love Him? Did you know I NEVER EVER have to test my kids my wife with something bad to see of the love me..wow I am better then God. Odd why would God have to test me for something He already knows. Is it not written by GOD out of the mouth of God that the thief comes to kill steal and destroy but I come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. To me its very clear about GOD and the enemy.
This is a fallen world we are living on his territory. You love the lord yet you can go rob a bank and God will allow it. Do we understand commission vs permission? "And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" Hmm captivity... turned the captivity of Job. So in all those moments Job was in captivity to the enemy. Prayed for his friends. Just these things.. do not get touched on. Can you go out right now and hurt someone rob someone? Do you think in heaven you can hurt someone rob someone? In Gods kingdom you can't yet here its not Gods kingdom. Christ even told us if this was His kingdom His servants would not allow Him to be turned over. And Christ aka GOD told us we have all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. What happen to Job how long did it last? Yeah we don't know..we guess but could have been a week a month or few months we don't know.
To think we right now we are in right standing with God. We are righteous through what Christ has done. Anyway.. God allowed..again do we understand commission vs permission? Something that gets me is God never once told Satan about the hedge all round Job. Another thing is look what GOD said about Job vs what Satan says. So why did Christ come? To set the "CAPTIVE FREE"! Free from what and whom? Set free? Whom the SON sets free is free indeed! If your like Job in captivity..GOD never did nor allowed it. Christ has already set you free! Its once and always »
« I'm sorry, but I find so much of what you say to be confusing, as though I had never heard of such things. Future sin? The NIV says:
Job 1:5 NIV - "When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom."
Future sin? "Perhaps my children HAVE sinned" is what Job said . . . past sin, not future sin.
If anything, I find the book of Job to be more confusing than ever before. Frustrating. »
- 61 :
I mean before it can be revealed or in case of so if they have done it it may be passed but if not it is to come. They were young and when you are young it's easy to do foolish things you repent after! So Job thinks that sooner or later they will do something! That's the difference with normal human beings, they always do after or when it's too late! That's human's history, human beings always wake up when it's too late!
- 62 :
If your parents or people you appreciate died, are they alive in your mind? Can you see them as if they were in front of you? For me the examples of the past, I mean those who had a strong relationship with god, are still alive and I speak of them as if they could have coffee or tea with me and we could speak together! I would listen to them and ask them questions instead of speaking to them! They would have so much to tell! I hope that one day it will possible! But now we only have the Bible to listen to them! That's where is the difference!
Remember you always ask good questions but "na'" don't stop it, keep going!
- 63 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I see. And I was certain that you'd at least apologize to the Lord for completely misquoting Him and His Word.
I think I'm done watching this thread, as we're being led down a path that is not accurate. No need to reply, I won't be returning. »
- 64 :
Strange words but people are free to understand what they want to understand and not by what they don't want! No problem at all!
Human level and God’s level !
- 65 Blade :
« That is not written. So many things being said here that are not written. No where does it say God allowed Satan. Where is it written God is in control of everything? If so then all the bad things that happen are from God... remember He allowed it. Yet here on earth if I don't feed my baby the world knows I am a bad parent. If I blame God for all the bad things.. how can I even trust Him or
love Him? Did you know I NEVER EVER have to test my kids my wife with something bad to see of the love me..wow I am better then God. Odd why would God have to test me for something He already knows. Is it not written by GOD out of the mouth of God that the thief comes to kill steal and destroy but I come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. To me its very clear about GOD and the enemy.
This is a fallen world we are living on his territory. You love the lord yet you can go rob a bank and God will allow it. Do we understand commission vs permission? "And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" Hmm captivity... turned the captivity of Job. So in all those moments Job was in captivity to the enemy. Prayed for his friends. Just these things.. do not get touched on. Can you go out right now and hurt someone rob someone? Do you think in heaven you can hurt someone rob someone? In Gods kingdom you can't yet here its not Gods kingdom. Christ even told us if this was His kingdom His servants would not allow Him to be turned over. And Christ aka GOD told us we have all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. What happen to Job how long did it last? Yeah we don't know..we guess but could have been a week a month or few months we don't know.
To think we right now we are in right standing with God. We are righteous through what Christ has done. Anyway.. God allowed..again do we understand commission vs permission? Something that gets me is God never once told Satan about the hedge all round Job. Another thing is look what GOD said about Job vs what Satan says. So why did Christ come? To set the "CAPTIVE FREE"! Free from what and whom? Set free? Whom the SON sets free is free indeed! If your like Job in captivity..GOD never did nor allowed it. Christ has already set you free! Its once and always »
- Status