Joel

[KJV1611]

I plan to go through the book of Joel a few verses at a time to discuss what is future and what is not. Whether you agree with what I have written below is not what I'm looking for, those are just my thoughts, but what I'm looking for is reasons why anyone would believe that those verses should be viewed as future.

Joel 1:1-5 KJV

[1] The word of the Lord that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
[2] Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
[3] Tell[SUB]1[/SUB] ye your children[SUB]2[/SUB] of it, and let your children tell their children[SUB]3[/SUB], and their children another generation[SUB]4[/SUB].
1 - 1st generation.
2 - 2nd generation.
3 - 3rd generation.
4 - 4th generation.

Consider the following verses in light of the above.

Exodus 20:5 KJV
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

[4] That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
Palmerworm - 1st generation.
Locust - 2nd generation.
Cankerworm - 3rd generation.
Caterpiller - 4th generation.

Those four things match the four things in verse 3. The palmerworm, locust, cankerworm and caterpiller are the people themselves. Each generation is defiling the next generation making them progessivley more wicked.


[5] Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

 

[dcontroversal]

The book of Joel contains dual prophecy.....the event of the locust plague is indicative of the plague in Revelation that spews out of the bottomless pit upon lost humanity....God blends yet future events with present context...

Without a doubt the events of Joel not only happened, but also point forward to a fulfillment of the interwoven prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled!

 

[KJV1611]

The book of Joel contains dual prophecy.....the event of the locust plague is indicative of the plague in Revelation that spews out of the bottomless pit upon lost humanity....God blends yet future events with present context...

Without a doubt the events of Joel not only happened, but also point forward to a fulfillment of the interwoven prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled!

That's why I started this thread, to see if any of Joel is future. It could be that what you think is future in Revelation was actually past.

 

[dcontroversal]

That's why I started this thread, to see if any of Joel is future. It could be that what you think is future in Revelation was actually past.

I am fairly confident that a 200 million locust army under 4 angels bound in the Euphrates under Abaddon/Apollyon has not yet spewed forth on the earth from the bottomless pit and or been cut loose upon the earth.....

 

[JesusRules1]

That's why I started this thread, to see if any of Joel is future. It could be that what you think is future in Revelation was actually past.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
Joe 3:5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
Joe 3:6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.
Joe 3:7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
Joe 3:8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
The Glorious Future of Judah
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

This is a future event for God said He will gather all nations together,and talks of the Palestinians,and to gather the Gentiles together and let's go to war,which God will come back with His saints(Zechariah 14:1-5;Revelation chapter 19;Acts 1:6-11),and God said multitudes in the valley of decision,for the day of the LORD is in the valley of decision.

The time when the world says Peace and safety,the world coming together to try to solve their problems,but the saints will not be deceived by it,and Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from the temptation that shall try all them that dwell on earth.

What decision will people make at that day when they say Peace and safety,for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

That day shall tempt the whole world to follow it,but the true saints will be delivered from that temptation,so they better have their A game to prove to people that what they are doing is not right,and will lead to disaster and punishment from God.

 

[KJV1611]

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
Joe 3:5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
Joe 3:6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.
Joe 3:7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
Joe 3:8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
The Glorious Future of Judah
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

This is a future event for God said He will gather all nations together,and talks of the Palestinians,and to gather the Gentiles together and let's go to war,which God will come back with His saints(Zechariah 14:1-5;Revelation chapter 19;Acts 1:6-11),and God said multitudes in the valley of decision,for the day of the LORD is in the valley of decision.

The time when the world says Peace and safety,the world coming together to try to solve their problems,but the saints will not be deceived by it,and Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from the temptation that shall try all them that dwell on earth.

What decision will people make at that day when they say Peace and safety,for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

That day shall tempt the whole world to follow it,but the true saints will be delivered from that temptation,so they better have their A game to prove to people that what they are doing is not right,and will lead to disaster and punishment from God.

When did the mountains drop new wine... in fact what is new wine?

Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

 

[KJV1611]

I'm trying to keep this sort of verse by verse so that each section can be discussed as it relates to past or present.

 

[prove-all]

There are only two details about Joel in this book. His name means “the Eternal is God.”
He represented and prophesied about the true God.

His father’s name, Pethuel, means “persuaded by God.” Pethuel was persuaded by God
and in turn apparently persuaded his son whom God used as a prophet.

That is all the information there is about Joel. And for good reason.
God wants us to focus on His message—not Joel or any man!

God’s word came to Joel. It is Joel’s pen, but God’s word.
This is a message to all of the inhabitants of the Earth [land]!

Joel’s prophecy asks the old men if they have ever experienced anything like
this—or even heard of anything like it. They obviously have not.

This could be the worst time of suffering ever on this Earth, prophesied several
other places in the Bible exp (Jeremiah 30:7; Daniel 12:1; Matthew 24:21-22).

 

[KJV1611]

There are only two details about Joel in this book. His name means “the Eternal is God.”
He represented and prophesied about the true God.

His father’s name, Pethuel, means “persuaded by God.” Pethuel was persuaded by God
and in turn apparently persuaded his son whom God used as a prophet.

That is all the information there is about Joel. And for good reason.
God wants us to focus on His message—not Joel or any man!

God’s word came to Joel. It is Joel’s pen, but God’s word.
This is a message to all of the inhabitants of the Earth [land]!

Joel’s prophecy asks the old men if they have ever experienced anything like
this—or even heard of anything like it. They obviously have not.

This could be the worst time of suffering ever on this Earth, prophesied several
other places in the Bible exp (Jeremiah 30:7; Daniel 12:1; Matthew 24:21-22).

Based only on the verses posted so far is there anything in those verses that proves those verses are future?

 

[Dan_473]

When did the mountains drop new wine... in fact what is new wine?

Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

I think most things in prophecy have multiple fulfillings.

present and future...

Joel is poetry, to me, the dripping new wine means vineyards will grow well for the exiles who return.

 

[KJV1611]

I think most things in prophecy have multiple fulfillings.

present and future...

Joel is poetry, to me, the dripping new wine means vineyards will grow well for the exiles who return.

Think more along the lines of new wine being symbolic of something in the same way "living water" is symbolic of the word of God.

John 4:10 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

 

[KJV1611]

I don't see anything future so far. So moving forward...

Joel 1:6-14 KJV
[6] For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

[7] He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.

[8] Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.

[9] The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the Lord ; the priests, the Lord's ministers, mourn.

[10] The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.

[11] Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.

[12] The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

[13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

[14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord ,

I don't see anything second coming here. How can this be anything other than AD 70?

 

[Dan_473]

Think more along the lines of new wine being symbolic of something in the same way "living water" is symbolic of the word of God.

John 4:10 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

I think the verse has both past and future fulfilments

 

[Dan_473]

I don't see anything future so far. So moving forward...

Joel 1:6-14 KJV
[6] For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

[7] He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.

[8] Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.

[9] The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the Lord ; the priests, the Lord's ministers, mourn.

[10] The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.

[11] Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.

[12] The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

[13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

[14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord ,

I don't see anything second coming here. How can this be anything other than AD 70?

I think verse six could be Babylonians, then Romans, and still something else in the future


Great thread idea, btw

 

[KJV1611]

I think verse six could be Babylonians, then Romans, and still something else in the future


Great thread idea, btw

Could be, but nothing in the verse actually says that it's 2nd coming does it?

 

[Dan_473]

Could be, but nothing in the verse actually says that it's 2nd coming does it?

Yes, I'd agree with that.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, I'd agree with that.

It looks like it's just me and you Dan lol. Let's keep going.

Joel 1:15-20 KJV
Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

[16] Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea , joy and gladness from the house of our God?

[17] The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate, the barns are broken down; for the corn is withered.

[18] How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.

[19] O Lord , to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and the flame hath burned all the trees of the field.

[20] The beasts of the field cry also unto thee: for the rivers of waters are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.

Just a continuation of the same things we've been looking at up to this point, only a name was given to the ongoing destruction - the day of the Lord.

 

[trofimus]

It looks like it's just me and you Dan lol. Let's keep going.

What is the motivation, somebody says Joel is about our future, or...?

 

[KJV1611]

What is the motivation, somebody says Joel is about our future, or...?

Joel is about the day of the Lord, the time of Jacob's trouble, most people put this in the fictional last 7 years.

 

[garee]

Another perspective..

When looking at the terms 3rd and 4th generation it would seem to refer to those who know not God, called hate.

The first generation being the generation of Adam (redeemable) and the second represents the generation of Christ the redeemed. .

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The 3rd and 4th seem to represent all the generations of men, as the generation of Adam.

The generation of Christ is seen in the Mathew’s genealogy account . The generation of Adam in Luke genealogy

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.