Justification has not come about because of anything believers are capable of achieving on their own

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Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#1
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by ["by" is the Greek word "ek" meaning "from out of"] faith, we have peace with God through [through is the Greek word "dia" meaning "proceeding from"] our Lord Jesus Christ:

Most of the New Testament deals with the new covenant in this our Grace administration that started on the day of Pentecost. God’s justification and how it cannot be earned is clearly written all throughout the New Testament. And yet most of us believe by way of our actions that we somehow need to find a way within our own thinking on how to justify ourselves.

We put the emphasis on ourselves so we become centered, the subject, and God the object. We become the doer, the giver, and God becomes the one done for, or the receiver. For justification we believe in human nature, believing we are able by our own effort, by our own works, by our own ethical and moral achievements to please God, and attain righteousness. We then try to seek God, attempting to discover God by our unaided intellect.

We need to understand the emphasis is on God, who is central, the subject, and we are the object because of what God made available to Jesus Christ, which allowed him to have the bond that created the relationship between him and God. God becomes the doer, the giver, and we are the one done for, the recipient. Truth is to not have faith in human nature because human nature is basically sinful and helpless to please God. Truth is God seeking us, and this is God’s revelation of Himself to anyone who will let Him be known to them.

We are justified from out of faith, and we already have peace with God, proceeding from our Lord Jesus Christ. We have this justification freely because God’s justification cost Him His only begotten Son, and this is why we cannot earn it from our own achievements. We have it because of God’s grace and because of the redemption that is within the risen and living Christ. It's not what we do, it's what we have—it's who we are.

Justification is the relationship between God and His people because it deals with the covenant of God and how He has taken what was broken by sin and made it right. The word “justify” means literally “to make just” or “to make right” just like if you have never sinned. To enter a covenant with another entailed obligations upon both of the parties. The ones who were faithful to the obligation and maintained the covenant were the ones who were justified.

In the case of the covenant between God and His people is where we see God’s obligation is in the defense of His people. Our obligation is to obey the will of God as disclosed in the “gospel of Jesus Christ” that is written to the “body of Christ” in this time period of the Grace administration. To be justified is an act of God because He has made us justified, and His justification is shown by His saving acts. The results of the resurrection of Christ and God making the new Christ justified had resulted in Christians finding themselves in a right relationship with God, who has established this “new covenant.”

Justification has not come about because of anything believers are capable of achieving on their own. The power and mercy of God alone has established this new relationship, and this is why the believer’s role is simply to believe and accept. Justification deals with the relationship between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them, which started when God raised Jesus Christ out from among the dead. Justification is made available to us because it's Christ Jesus, who has this covenant with God and thereby has complete liberation from the nature of sin. We have this changeover from the state of injustice to the state of justice, from being the accused to being declared innocent because of this personal relationship Jesus Christ has with God.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,628
806
113
#2
I don't think most Christians are trying to justify themselves through what they think and do. It is something that is wrongly thrown at them, used to make fun of people who Christ has made righteous and want to follow Him.

When they follow Christ, they hate sin and use the Holy Spirit to will themselves not to sin. People who are living outside of the Lord's ways cannot understand anyone whose will is not to sin and say they absolutely know those people are doing that for the only reason they can comprehend--that is to justify themselves. So those in Christ are misunderstood.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,421
970
113
#3
Believers are justified in the sight of God because we have put on the righteousness of Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,526
4,653
113
#4
And yet most of us believe by way of our actions that we somehow need to find a way within our own thinking on how to justify ourselves.
This is false. How did you arrive at this?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,203
3,464
113
#5
Justification is something GOD DECLARES of a person meaning they are NOT GUILTY of the sins in their lives. This act is made possible by ONE MEANS ONLY! Being cleansed of our sins by the precious blood Christ shed on the cross. This is the ONLY way one can be made FREE of guilt and become worthy to be the heirs to the Promise.

Man CAN NOT EARN JUSTIFICATION!

The Precious Blood of Jesus


Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”

Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”

1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”

Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”

Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”

Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …

Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”

Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,992
2,133
113
#6
Justification is monergistic. That means only ONE (mono) can do it. That person is Christ, by his death and resurrection. We are dead to God, before he saves us. Spiritually dead! Only the power of the Holy Spirit can make us alive in Christ.

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross." Col 2:13-14

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17

We cannot make ourselves become alive, because we are dead in our sins.

Sanctification, however is synergistic. We have an important role to play, along with with the Holy Spirit guiding and directing us. The Holy Spirit teaches, we obey and learn.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

(That is why I object to the emphasis on tongues with regards to the role of the Holy Spirit. We start thinking that tongues and other gifts are the be-all and end-all of the role of the Holy Spirit. NO!) The role of the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus in John 15:26:

"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me." John 15:26

The Holy Spirit is an advocate, that is a legal term, meaning someone who will legally guarantee our salvation, based on Christ's death in the cross for our sins. Further in John 16:7

"But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 6:7.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit could not come unless Jesus left. Of course the Holy Spirit could not come, because he would have had no defence to make for us, till Christ died in our place. John continues with explaining the role the Holy Spirit has in helping teach us how to grow in Christ:

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” John 16:13-15

Corinthians expounds this more.

“But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.” (1 Corinthians 2:10)

So God teaches us through the Holy Spirit. Our response is to learn these lessons, obey Christ and his Word, and apply ourselves to spiritual disciplines like prayer, daily Bible reading, meditation on Scripture and filling ourselves with the Word, and so forth.

Instead, people stay stuck with experiences, reliving their so-called "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" which is never found as a noun in the Bible, and they fail to learn and grow. That is the sad state of most of Christianity today.

Finally, there is glorification. That is when Christ returns and we receive our glorified bodies, and are given the ability not to sin. This step is monergistic, again. It is a giant leap that no person can make.

My prayer is that people would start to be spiritually formed. My desire is that people would use spiritual disciplines to grow in Christ, and become mature. The Bible is clear there is no other way!
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#8
Justification is monergistic. That means only ONE (mono) can do it. That person is Christ, by his death and resurrection. We are dead to God, before he saves us. Spiritually dead! Only the power of the Holy Spirit can make us alive in Christ.

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross." Col 2:13-14

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17

We cannot make ourselves become alive, because we are dead in our sins.

Sanctification, however is synergistic. We have an important role to play, along with with the Holy Spirit guiding and directing us. The Holy Spirit teaches, we obey and learn.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

(That is why I object to the emphasis on tongues with regards to the role of the Holy Spirit. We start thinking that tongues and other gifts are the be-all and end-all of the role of the Holy Spirit. NO!) The role of the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus in John 15:26:

"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me." John 15:26

The Holy Spirit is an advocate, that is a legal term, meaning someone who will legally guarantee our salvation, based on Christ's death in the cross for our sins. Further in John 16:7

"But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 6:7.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit could not come unless Jesus left. Of course the Holy Spirit could not come, because he would have had no defence to make for us, till Christ died in our place. John continues with explaining the role the Holy Spirit has in helping teach us how to grow in Christ:

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” John 16:13-15

Corinthians expounds this more.

“But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.” (1 Corinthians 2:10)

So God teaches us through the Holy Spirit. Our response is to learn these lessons, obey Christ and his Word, and apply ourselves to spiritual disciplines like prayer, daily Bible reading, meditation on Scripture and filling ourselves with the Word, and so forth.

Instead, people stay stuck with experiences, reliving their so-called "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" which is never found as a noun in the Bible, and they fail to learn and grow. That is the sad state of most of Christianity today.

Finally, there is glorification. That is when Christ returns and we receive our glorified bodies, and are given the ability not to sin. This step is monergistic, again. It is a giant leap that no person can make.

My prayer is that people would start to be spiritually formed. My desire is that people would use spiritual disciplines to grow in Christ, and become mature. The Bible is clear there is no other way!
You're the only one on this site along with me that believes the following...

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17

We cannot make ourselves become alive, because we are dead in our sins.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
16,073
1,233
113
#9
I Think you make a good point how we can become selfcentered in that way, instead God is made the object and we are the doers. For a long time now I have had self inflicted wounds inside chains that I have had for years with no hope of ever being free from them. I always tell him only he holds the key but I constantly am beating myself up for all my screw ups and all my sins and allow the enemy to run rampant with my fear doubt and self loathing seeing anything but good in myself.
Every time I say to him only you have the key but then I don't let him use it I allow myself to be beaten down because I feel like I deserve it, how can he free me from my pain and chains if I keep digging the needle in the wounds and keep the lock heavy on the chains?
I have to learn to simply let go and accept what he has for me and says of me.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#10
I Think you make a good point how we can become selfcentered in that way, instead God is made the object and we are the doers. For a long time now I have had self inflicted wounds inside chains that I have had for years with no hope of ever being free from them. I always tell him only he holds the key but I constantly am beating myself up for all my screw ups and all my sins and allow the enemy to run rampant with my fear doubt and self loathing seeing anything but good in myself.
Every time I say to him only you have the key but then I don't let him use it I allow myself to be beaten down because I feel like I deserve it, how can he free me from my pain and chains if I keep digging the needle in the wounds and keep the lock heavy on the chains?
I have to learn to simply let go and accept what he has for me and says of me.
What do you seek?
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,536
500
113
#11
We are saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do to be saved.

But when we receive the Spirit then we have the responsibility to allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike.

Which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able to handle, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

So there is no excuse, and we cannot hold unto sin for then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and if we sin then we need to get rid of the sin and keep moving forward of the Spirit.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Paul said he can have all faith so that he can remove mountains, but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

Paul said if people preach that God blesses the saints with their wants to withdraw yourselves from them, having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

James said if they did not have charity then their faith is dead, so a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.

John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, or in tongue, but love in deed, works, and in truth.

If a person does not have love then faith does not apply in their life.

Which Paul said charity is not selfish, not arrogant, does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to be led of the Spirit and not sin, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, which many neglect love as they enjoy their wants.

Which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, from such turn away for they are hypocritical, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

Which the Lord knows them that are His having this seal that those that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some have not the knowledge of God.

Jesus said not all who say Lord, Lord, will enter heaven, for they were workers of iniquity not doing the will of the Father.

People want to take away the responsibility of allowing the Spirit to lead them for they want to enjoy sin, and hold unto sin, and then believe they have salvation.

But if we sin after receiving the knowledge of sin, hold unto sin, there is no more sacrifice for that sin for the blood of Jesus cannot take away a sin if we hold unto that sin.

God said that the Gentiles should fear for if He did not spare the natural branches take heed lest He also not spare you, for if we do not continue in the goodness of God we will be cut off like the Jews that were cut off in the Old Testament.

And do not be like the Jews that were rebellious in the wilderness, and do not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sins.

We have the capability to sin if we want to sin, but a Spirit led life can abstain from sin.

But there are many people holding unto sin and believing they have salvation, but Paul said that is not love, and love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

They think faith alone, but love is greater than faith.

It is faith alone, not saved by works, when we first confess Christ for we have not received the Spirit yet, but when we receive the Spirit then we have the responsibility to be led of the Spirit which is the only way to have love that is perfect.

Paul and James say the same thing have charity, love in action, works, or faith does not apply in your life.

People should understand when Paul is speaking according to people being in the flesh, and being in the Spirit.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,494
800
113
#12
I arrived at this by talking to church people and hearing what preachers teach.
Have you noticed a difference between the average “church person” and CC members? There are many babes in Christ here but most of us are here because we don’t want to be another “church person”. We have made the decision to spend time seeking the Lord daily. We desire to learn from eachother, pray for and edify the Body of Believers. We congregate from all over the world. It’s not like a website named ChristianChat would be hard to find. We are here on purpose, for purpose. Granted many of those who call themselves Christian are by name alone. Like you stated, they gather in churches and are led by “uninspired” preachers. Those who know Christ are different. When you make generalizations you fail to observe the crowd you are addressing isn’t largely found here. Peterlag, how do you describe yourself? Perhaps you felt like a spiritual giant walking among the weak of faith and spiritually blind. We are brothers and sisters here. Come down from the pulpit and meet the people you desire to lead. I’m Hungry (Steve), tell us about yourself.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,203
3,464
113
#13
You're the only one on this site along with me that believes the following...

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17

We cannot make ourselves become alive, because we are dead in our sins.
You don't know too many people on this Site do you?

Would do well to avoid phrases such as "only one" and such......they can cause misunderstandings and appear to be elitist in nature.

just saying
 

1956Robin

New member
Apr 17, 2020
12
10
3
#14
Jesus is enough. WE are righteous in Him alone. Not Jesus plus our works

John 6:29 This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him who He hath sent.

Romans 4:5 and Titus 3:5

Fruits of the Spirit or lack thereof reflect our belief. If one's focus is on thier performance then God is not on the throne in thier heart because they are constantly examining themselves. Let Jesus off the cross. It IS finished.

Operate in love and you won't willfully sin. Say what the Father says, do what the Father does. Trust in HIs mercy and lovingkindness, acknowledge that you need a Savior, He will direct your path.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#15
You don't know too many people on this Site do you?

Would do well to avoid phrases such as "only one" and such......they can cause misunderstandings and appear to be elitist in nature.

just saying
I got a message just the other day from one who said have you not noticed that everyone on here is saying the same thing to you. That the following verse in the bible is not true... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#16
Have you noticed a difference between the average “church person” and CC members? There are many babes in Christ here but most of us are here because we don’t want to be another “church person”. We have made the decision to spend time seeking the Lord daily. We desire to learn from eachother, pray for and edify the Body of Believers. We congregate from all over the world. It’s not like a website named ChristianChat would be hard to find. We are here on purpose, for purpose. Granted many of those who call themselves Christian are by name alone. Like you stated, they gather in churches and are led by “uninspired” preachers. Those who know Christ are different. When you make generalizations you fail to observe the crowd you are addressing isn’t largely found here. Peterlag, how do you describe yourself? Perhaps you felt like a spiritual giant walking among the weak of faith and spiritually blind. We are brothers and sisters here. Come down from the pulpit and meet the people you desire to lead. I’m Hungry (Steve), tell us about yourself.
You can learn all that you would enjoy since I wrote it down. My biblical thinking can be found here...

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,494
800
113
#17
You can learn all that you would enjoy since I wrote it down. My biblical thinking can be found here...

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**
So that is your site? I’ve already learned all of that. In case you missed the obvious, the Father realized that people were more responsive to a God who ate with and walked among them. How much smaller the gate and narrow the road would have been if He just gave us a website that says, “This is Me.” Clearly you are here to preach, not fellowship. It’s been stated, people don’t care what you know, until they know that you care. Also stated, if you want to know if you are a leader, look behind you. If nobody is following, you aren’t a leader. Take it or leave it. I’m just trying to help.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
16,073
1,233
113
#18
Well I don't seek justification because there is nothing to be justified, everything that I have done wrong or done in general that would need justification is all on me I have no excuse.

I suppose what I seek is inner healing, as much as I am always concerned about the inner healing of others it has come to my attention that while seeking others healing I neglected my own. Sure it may be noble but it also has crippled me as well I struggle with inner demons inner pains inner bleeding and inner chains that I do not have the ability to break or cure, if I cannot have healing how am I suppose to help other to heal
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
16,073
1,233
113
#19
Have you noticed a difference between the average “church person” and CC members? There are many babes in Christ here but most of us are here because we don’t want to be another “church person”. We have made the decision to spend time seeking the Lord daily. We desire to learn from eachother, pray for and edify the Body of Believers. We congregate from all over the world. It’s not like a website named ChristianChat would be hard to find. We are here on purpose, for purpose. Granted many of those who call themselves Christian are by name alone. Like you stated, they gather in churches and are led by “uninspired” preachers. Those who know Christ are different. When you make generalizations you fail to observe the crowd you are addressing isn’t largely found here. Peterlag, how do you describe yourself? Perhaps you felt like a spiritual giant walking among the weak of faith and spiritually blind. We are brothers and sisters here. Come down from the pulpit and meet the people you desire to lead. I’m Hungry (Steve), tell us about yourself.
If only I could give you a better award than the winner icon this was simply amazing
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
279
49
28
#20
So that is your site? I’ve already learned all of that. In case you missed the obvious, the Father realized that people were more responsive to a God who ate with and walked among them. How much smaller the gate and narrow the road would have been if He just gave us a website that says, “This is Me.” Clearly you are here to preach, not fellowship. It’s been stated, people don’t care what you know, until they know that you care. Also stated, if you want to know if you are a leader, look behind you. If nobody is following, you aren’t a leader. Take it or leave it. I’m just trying to help.
I like your heart and enjoy having fellowship with you. But I'm not nice like you. I don't care if people read my stuff or not. I put it out there for all to see. Let anyone think upon what I write if they would enjoy doing so. By the way, did you read all of my 200 pages concerning the Christ. You said you already knew all that.